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	<title>Comments on: Campaigning on the frontier</title>
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	<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2004/08/11/campaigning-on-the-frontier/</link>
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		<title>By: Geoff Honnor</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2004/08/11/campaigning-on-the-frontier/#comment-9675</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff Honnor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/?p=816#comment-9675</guid>
		<description>Good God. On this basis I assume we&#039;ll have Tollner counter-suing given Snowdon&#039;s outrageous assertion about Tollner being &quot;away with the fairies.&quot; 

It reads to me more like strategic intimidatory tactics than a real intent to proceed to law but then....I&#039;m not a Territory politician and I&#039;m often away with the fairies myself :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good God. On this basis I assume we&#8217;ll have Tollner counter-suing given Snowdon&#8217;s outrageous assertion about Tollner being &#8220;away with the fairies.&#8221; </p>
<p>It reads to me more like strategic intimidatory tactics than a real intent to proceed to law but then&#8230;.I&#8217;m not a Territory politician and I&#8217;m often away with the fairies myself :)</p>
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		<title>By: Jacques Chester</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2004/08/11/campaigning-on-the-frontier/#comment-9676</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques Chester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/?p=816#comment-9676</guid>
		<description>I can tell you from my experience that David has really gotten under Warren&#039;s skin over the years. Very little love lost between them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can tell you from my experience that David has really gotten under Warren&#8217;s skin over the years. Very little love lost between them.</p>
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		<title>By: David Tiley</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2004/08/11/campaigning-on-the-frontier/#comment-9677</link>
		<dc:creator>David Tiley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/?p=816#comment-9677</guid>
		<description>Ken - this is irrelevant to the post but it might help with the design - hspace=&quot;10&quot; in with the align=&quot;left&quot; (or right) gives you a gap around your photos. Vary the size with the number.

Drove me mad till I found that out. Photos are great. Like the background texture - tried for that myself but didn&#039;t get it right and moved on to something else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ken &#8211; this is irrelevant to the post but it might help with the design &#8211; hspace=&#8221;10&#8243; in with the align=&#8221;left&#8221; (or right) gives you a gap around your photos. Vary the size with the number.</p>
<p>Drove me mad till I found that out. Photos are great. Like the background texture &#8211; tried for that myself but didn&#8217;t get it right and moved on to something else.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Parish</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2004/08/11/campaigning-on-the-frontier/#comment-9678</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Parish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/?p=816#comment-9678</guid>
		<description>Thanks David.  I&#039;ve wanted to know how to do that for ages.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks David.  I&#8217;ve wanted to know how to do that for ages.</p>
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		<title>By: mark</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2004/08/11/campaigning-on-the-frontier/#comment-9679</link>
		<dc:creator>mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/?p=816#comment-9679</guid>
		<description>Ahh, but hspace is no longer valid HTML; safer to go with style=&quot;margin: 10px;&quot; or something instead.

Even better, put in your CSS:
IMG {
  margin: 10px;
}

Then you don&#039;t need to add anything, all images will have a margin of 10px --- top, bottom, and sides.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ahh, but hspace is no longer valid HTML; safer to go with style=&#8221;margin: 10px;&#8221; or something instead.</p>
<p>Even better, put in your CSS:<br />
IMG {<br />
  margin: 10px;<br />
}</p>
<p>Then you don&#8217;t need to add anything, all images will have a margin of 10px &#8212; top, bottom, and sides.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Parish</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2004/08/11/campaigning-on-the-frontier/#comment-9680</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Parish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/?p=816#comment-9680</guid>
		<description>Mark

Thanks for that.  How then would I create a stylesheet division that would enable me easily to add captions to photos (that seems to be how the online newspapers do it)?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark</p>
<p>Thanks for that.  How then would I create a stylesheet division that would enable me easily to add captions to photos (that seems to be how the online newspapers do it)?</p>
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		<title>By: Jacques Chester</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2004/08/11/campaigning-on-the-frontier/#comment-9681</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques Chester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/?p=816#comment-9681</guid>
		<description>They use a  tag, to divide the photo into its own logical segment. That section then has a different style for captions.

An example from the SMH:


		&quot;He was crying&quot; ... Habib&#039;s wife and daughter, Maha and Hajer.
		

A few comments. Firstly, very naughty of them not to have a proper alt or title attribute. Secondly, naughty of them to have an align attribute; formatting attributes in tags is deprecated.

Otherwise though, that&#039;s how you&#039;d do it. Probably with the CSS margins stuff mark had above, making sure that  tags in the relevant class don&#039;t have any margin at all (ie, but up to the photo).

I&#039;d give you some code but I don&#039;t really have a good setup to test it here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They use a  tag, to divide the photo into its own logical segment. That section then has a different style for captions.</p>
<p>An example from the SMH:</p>
<p>		&#8220;He was crying&#8221; &#8230; Habib&#8217;s wife and daughter, Maha and Hajer.</p>
<p>A few comments. Firstly, very naughty of them not to have a proper alt or title attribute. Secondly, naughty of them to have an align attribute; formatting attributes in tags is deprecated.</p>
<p>Otherwise though, that&#8217;s how you&#8217;d do it. Probably with the CSS margins stuff mark had above, making sure that  tags in the relevant class don&#8217;t have any margin at all (ie, but up to the photo).</p>
<p>I&#8217;d give you some code but I don&#8217;t really have a good setup to test it here.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacques Chester</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2004/08/11/campaigning-on-the-frontier/#comment-9682</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques Chester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/?p=816#comment-9682</guid>
		<description>Alright, that code didn&#039;t post right.

The SMH uses &lt;div&gt; tags with a special CSS class. That class probably describes how an img tag and a p tag would behave together.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alright, that code didn&#8217;t post right.</p>
<p>The SMH uses &lt;div&gt; tags with a special CSS class. That class probably describes how an img tag and a p tag would behave together.</p>
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		<title>By: David Tiley</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2004/08/11/campaigning-on-the-frontier/#comment-9683</link>
		<dc:creator>David Tiley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/?p=816#comment-9683</guid>
		<description>Damn. Back to the drawing board for me!  Thanks though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Damn. Back to the drawing board for me!  Thanks though.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Parish</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2004/08/11/campaigning-on-the-frontier/#comment-9684</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Parish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/?p=816#comment-9684</guid>
		<description>Jacques

If you ever get the time and inclination, I&#039;d love to receive the stylesheet code for SMH-style photo captions. I&#039;ve got Buckley&#039;s Chance of working it out for myself.  That&#039;s the trouble with stylesheets.  You can&#039;t cheat and copy the code from &quot;view source&quot; in someone else&#039;s web page.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jacques</p>
<p>If you ever get the time and inclination, I&#8217;d love to receive the stylesheet code for SMH-style photo captions. I&#8217;ve got Buckley&#8217;s Chance of working it out for myself.  That&#8217;s the trouble with stylesheets.  You can&#8217;t cheat and copy the code from &#8220;view source&#8221; in someone else&#8217;s web page.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim Lambert</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2004/08/11/campaigning-on-the-frontier/#comment-9685</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Lambert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/?p=816#comment-9685</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s the trouble with stylesheets. You can&#039;t cheat and copy the code from &quot;view source&quot; in someone else&#039;s web page.

Sure you can.  Do a view source and look for the URL of the style sheet.  Here is yours.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s the trouble with stylesheets. You can&#8217;t cheat and copy the code from &#8220;view source&#8221; in someone else&#8217;s web page.</p>
<p>Sure you can.  Do a view source and look for the URL of the style sheet.  Here is yours.</p>
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		<title>By: mark</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2004/08/11/campaigning-on-the-frontier/#comment-9686</link>
		<dc:creator>mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/?p=816#comment-9686</guid>
		<description>Building on what Tim said, stylesheets can either be part of the page, or linked/imported from elsewhere.  There&#039;s also adding the style=&quot;&quot; attribute to particular tags, but you&#039;re already familiar with that.  &quot;Embedded&quot; CSS is visible directly from &quot;View Source&quot; (CTRL-U on Mozilla/Firefox, and ALT-F3 (I think) on Opera).  It looks like:
&lt;style type=&quot;text/css&quot;&gt; img { margin: 10px; }&lt;/style&gt;
(obviously, you can include as many different &quot;definitions&quot; as you like, not just the one for IMG tags.  In this example, &quot;img&quot; is an element, &quot;margin:&quot; a property, and &quot;10px;&quot; the value)

CSS from other places can&#039;t be seen directly, because, well, it&#039;s not there (as you&#039;ve already discovered).  But there has to be a reference within the HTML to it, or it can&#039;t be used, eh?  There are two ways people access a stylesheet from an external document (almost always &quot;whatever.css&quot;): by &quot;linking&quot;, and &quot;importing&quot;.  MT-based &#039;blogs like yours use linked stylesheets, even though this isn&#039;t the best solution (all CSS-using browsers can understand it.  Which means NN4 has a great opportunity to choke on it).  This looks like:
&lt;link rel=&quot;stylesheet&quot; href=&quot;whatever.css&quot; type=&quot;text/css&quot; /&gt;.  Any time you see this, you know there&#039;s something of interest in &quot;whatever.css&quot;.

&quot;Importing&quot; involves sticking a reference into an embedded stylesheet.  It&#039;s mostly done to hide stylesheets from browsers like NN4 and IE4 that try to understand CSS and go all gang agley (or even crash) under the effort.  It looks like:
&lt;style type=&quot;text/css&quot;&gt;
  @import &quot;whatever.css&quot;;
&lt;/style&gt;

Hope this is helpful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Building on what Tim said, stylesheets can either be part of the page, or linked/imported from elsewhere.  There&#8217;s also adding the style=&#8221;" attribute to particular tags, but you&#8217;re already familiar with that.  &#8220;Embedded&#8221; CSS is visible directly from &#8220;View Source&#8221; (CTRL-U on Mozilla/Firefox, and ALT-F3 (I think) on Opera).  It looks like:<br />
&lt;style type=&#8221;text/css&#8221;&gt; img { margin: 10px; }&lt;/style&gt;<br />
(obviously, you can include as many different &#8220;definitions&#8221; as you like, not just the one for IMG tags.  In this example, &#8220;img&#8221; is an element, &#8220;margin:&#8221; a property, and &#8220;10px;&#8221; the value)</p>
<p>CSS from other places can&#8217;t be seen directly, because, well, it&#8217;s not there (as you&#8217;ve already discovered).  But there has to be a reference within the HTML to it, or it can&#8217;t be used, eh?  There are two ways people access a stylesheet from an external document (almost always &#8220;whatever.css&#8221;): by &#8220;linking&#8221;, and &#8220;importing&#8221;.  MT-based &#8216;blogs like yours use linked stylesheets, even though this isn&#8217;t the best solution (all CSS-using browsers can understand it.  Which means NN4 has a great opportunity to choke on it).  This looks like:<br />
&lt;link rel=&#8221;stylesheet&#8221; href=&#8221;whatever.css&#8221; type=&#8221;text/css&#8221; /&gt;.  Any time you see this, you know there&#8217;s something of interest in &#8220;whatever.css&#8221;.</p>
<p>&#8220;Importing&#8221; involves sticking a reference into an embedded stylesheet.  It&#8217;s mostly done to hide stylesheets from browsers like NN4 and IE4 that try to understand CSS and go all gang agley (or even crash) under the effort.  It looks like:<br />
&lt;style type=&#8221;text/css&#8221;&gt;<br />
  @import &#8220;whatever.css&#8221;;<br />
&lt;/style&gt;</p>
<p>Hope this is helpful.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Parish</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2004/08/11/campaigning-on-the-frontier/#comment-9687</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Parish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/?p=816#comment-9687</guid>
		<description>Mark

As far as I can see the SMH and Oz use the latter method (including @import).  Does that mean I can or can&#039;t view their css source code, and if so how?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark</p>
<p>As far as I can see the SMH and Oz use the latter method (including @import).  Does that mean I can or can&#8217;t view their css source code, and if so how?</p>
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		<title>By: Jacques Chester</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2004/08/11/campaigning-on-the-frontier/#comment-9688</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques Chester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/?p=816#comment-9688</guid>
		<description>Ken;

I&#039;d be happy enough to give it a whirl. Could you email your current stylesheet to me?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ken;</p>
<p>I&#8217;d be happy enough to give it a whirl. Could you email your current stylesheet to me?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ken Glasgow</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2004/08/11/campaigning-on-the-frontier/#comment-9689</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Glasgow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/?p=816#comment-9689</guid>
		<description>Interesting article.  Post moral majotity??  According to census 2001 68% of Australians are Christians.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting article.  Post moral majotity??  According to census 2001 68% of Australians are Christians.</p>
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		<title>By: Jesus Christ</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2004/08/11/campaigning-on-the-frontier/#comment-9690</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesus Christ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/?p=816#comment-9690</guid>
		<description>Yes but there are Christians and there are God-botherers. I even have trouble chatting with the latter, they are worse than tele-marketers.

Enduring crucifixion is one thing but the prospect of having to share company with Kevin Andrews or Eric Abetz, not even Satan deserves that sort of treatment. I hope my second coming is soon because a couple of hundred years up above with that lot will be worse than having to watch consecutive screenings of that new Mel Gibson film.

Remind me to tell St. Peter to change the admissions policy as otherwise I might be truly tempted. Oh, and don&#039;t tell Trish Draper about some of the films we like to screen up here, lets just say yours truly is making sure Martin Scorcese is on the guest list. Actually I&#039;m more of a &quot;Jesus of Montreal&quot; than a Mel Gibson Jesus, the beard is so 70s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes but there are Christians and there are God-botherers. I even have trouble chatting with the latter, they are worse than tele-marketers.</p>
<p>Enduring crucifixion is one thing but the prospect of having to share company with Kevin Andrews or Eric Abetz, not even Satan deserves that sort of treatment. I hope my second coming is soon because a couple of hundred years up above with that lot will be worse than having to watch consecutive screenings of that new Mel Gibson film.</p>
<p>Remind me to tell St. Peter to change the admissions policy as otherwise I might be truly tempted. Oh, and don&#8217;t tell Trish Draper about some of the films we like to screen up here, lets just say yours truly is making sure Martin Scorcese is on the guest list. Actually I&#8217;m more of a &#8220;Jesus of Montreal&#8221; than a Mel Gibson Jesus, the beard is so 70s.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Parish</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2004/08/11/campaigning-on-the-frontier/#comment-9691</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Parish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/?p=816#comment-9691</guid>
		<description>Lord

I am your most humble servant and, as you know (being omniscient and all), only a miserable sinner.  Just a stranger on a blog trying to make his way home. But it does occur to me that Abetz was distinctly complicit in covering up for that Draper tart.  Surely you could tactfully suggest to St Peter that he merits at least a spell in purgatory if not eternal damnation.  

And Kevin Andrews was at the very least uncharitable in what he did to the NT&#039;s euthanasia laws.  Yes, yes I know that sort of thing&#039;s a tad controversial up there, but really, if judgment was thine then that little upstart prick has it coming too.  Oh forgive me Lord, I got carried away. Anyway, Andrews must certainly deserve to burn in hell, don&#039;t you think?  And if you get a little side benefit of avoiding their company up there, well what the hell?  Ooh sorry!

Lord I have to confess I&#039;m deeply disturbed by that comment about beards being so 70s, though.  You&#039;re not taking divine fashion advice from that little twerp Carson Kressley, are you?  I hope you&#039;ll forgive me for mentioning it, but things have changed in the couple of millenia since you were last here.  That bloke&#039;s taste is in his arse.  Think of him as the Judas of haute couture, the fashion kiss of death.  I mean I know you move in mysterious ways, but you wouldn&#039;t want to make the same mistake twice.

And lastly oh Lord, I&#039;m wondering if I give you thanks and praise enough, would you consider vaporising Osama and his crew, and turning Howard and Bush and Tony Abbott and Dick Cheney into cane toads? 

Amen</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Lord</p>
<p>I am your most humble servant and, as you know (being omniscient and all), only a miserable sinner.  Just a stranger on a blog trying to make his way home. But it does occur to me that Abetz was distinctly complicit in covering up for that Draper tart.  Surely you could tactfully suggest to St Peter that he merits at least a spell in purgatory if not eternal damnation.  </p>
<p>And Kevin Andrews was at the very least uncharitable in what he did to the NT&#8217;s euthanasia laws.  Yes, yes I know that sort of thing&#8217;s a tad controversial up there, but really, if judgment was thine then that little upstart prick has it coming too.  Oh forgive me Lord, I got carried away. Anyway, Andrews must certainly deserve to burn in hell, don&#8217;t you think?  And if you get a little side benefit of avoiding their company up there, well what the hell?  Ooh sorry!</p>
<p>Lord I have to confess I&#8217;m deeply disturbed by that comment about beards being so 70s, though.  You&#8217;re not taking divine fashion advice from that little twerp Carson Kressley, are you?  I hope you&#8217;ll forgive me for mentioning it, but things have changed in the couple of millenia since you were last here.  That bloke&#8217;s taste is in his arse.  Think of him as the Judas of haute couture, the fashion kiss of death.  I mean I know you move in mysterious ways, but you wouldn&#8217;t want to make the same mistake twice.</p>
<p>And lastly oh Lord, I&#8217;m wondering if I give you thanks and praise enough, would you consider vaporising Osama and his crew, and turning Howard and Bush and Tony Abbott and Dick Cheney into cane toads? </p>
<p>Amen</p>
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		<title>By: Red Peter</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2004/08/11/campaigning-on-the-frontier/#comment-9692</link>
		<dc:creator>Red Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 1970 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/?p=816#comment-9692</guid>
		<description>As one astutely christian talkback caller put it last night; &quot;Jesus would be turning in his grave!&quot; 
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As one astutely christian talkback caller put it last night; &#8220;Jesus would be turning in his grave!&#8221;</p>
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