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	<title>Comments on: New Zealand innovates again: Supplementary Monetary Policy Instruments</title>
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	<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2005/11/14/new-zealand-innovates-again-supplementary-monetary-policy-instruments/</link>
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	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 12:50:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Club Troppo &#187; Buffett’s new anti-mercantilist protectionism</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2005/11/14/new-zealand-innovates-again-supplementary-monetary-policy-instruments/#comment-119500</link>
		<dc:creator>Club Troppo &#187; Buffett’s new anti-mercantilist protectionism</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 May 2007 13:33:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] Buffett argues, there are attractive features to this – and it fits another idea I’ve pondered from time to time – that there might be merit not in ‘picking winners’ but in developing the capacity of the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Buffett argues, there are attractive features to this – and it fits another idea I’ve pondered from time to time – that there might be merit not in ‘picking winners’ but in developing the capacity of the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2005/11/14/new-zealand-innovates-again-supplementary-monetary-policy-instruments/#comment-27966</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wordpress/?p=1965#comment-27966</guid>
		<description>I have rather liked the idea of one-off narrowly-targeted taxes on consumer credit.  These could have sunset clauses or be removed earlier once they have had their desired effect. 

These could be one-off taxes on new debts or percentage taxes on existing debts. 

For example: 

- All applications for new credit cards require a $1000 up front tax before the card will be granted.

- A similar up-front tax for personal loans, interest free deals and (possibly) use of home equity.

- Applicants for any form of consumer credit shall be required to give their tax file number on their application.  Consumer debt could be taxed at a rate similar to the GST (eg 10%).

- Taxes on multiple credit cards that rise exponentially with the number of different cards. 

During the late 80s it might have been possible to have one or more of these measures combined with much lower (and less recessionary) interest rates to successfully achieve Paul Keating's desired 'soft landing' (rather than the recession we had to have) without the hardship that ensued.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have rather liked the idea of one-off narrowly-targeted taxes on consumer credit.  These could have sunset clauses or be removed earlier once they have had their desired effect. </p>
<p>These could be one-off taxes on new debts or percentage taxes on existing debts. </p>
<p>For example: </p>
<p>- All applications for new credit cards require a $1000 up front tax before the card will be granted.</p>
<p>- A similar up-front tax for personal loans, interest free deals and (possibly) use of home equity.</p>
<p>- Applicants for any form of consumer credit shall be required to give their tax file number on their application.  Consumer debt could be taxed at a rate similar to the GST (eg 10%).</p>
<p>- Taxes on multiple credit cards that rise exponentially with the number of different cards. </p>
<p>During the late 80s it might have been possible to have one or more of these measures combined with much lower (and less recessionary) interest rates to successfully achieve Paul Keating&#8217;s desired &#8217;soft landing&#8217; (rather than the recession we had to have) without the hardship that ensued.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Bounds</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2005/11/14/new-zealand-innovates-again-supplementary-monetary-policy-instruments/#comment-27967</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Bounds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Peter - your proposals seem rather extreme.  Unless I'm missing something, these would seem to simultaneously greatly reduce low- to middle-income earners' access to credit while making those in debt quickly spiral into bankruptcy.

I assume you're trying to discourage people spending money they don't have,  but wouldn't you achieve the same aims rather more simply just by banning the granting of credit altogether?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Peter - your proposals seem rather extreme.  Unless I&#8217;m missing something, these would seem to simultaneously greatly reduce low- to middle-income earners&#8217; access to credit while making those in debt quickly spiral into bankruptcy.</p>
<p>I assume you&#8217;re trying to discourage people spending money they don&#8217;t have,  but wouldn&#8217;t you achieve the same aims rather more simply just by banning the granting of credit altogether?</p>
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		<title>By: Nicholas Gruen</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2005/11/14/new-zealand-innovates-again-supplementary-monetary-policy-instruments/#comment-27968</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicholas Gruen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wordpress/?p=1965#comment-27968</guid>
		<description>Yes, and Peter's proposal is very tenuously related to monetary policy or even prudential supervision. I have very little sympathy for the pretty widespread view that we should make people's borrowing decisions for them.  I commented on it tangentially here. 

http://troppoarmadillo.ubersportingpundit.com/archives/009567.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, and Peter&#8217;s proposal is very tenuously related to monetary policy or even prudential supervision. I have very little sympathy for the pretty widespread view that we should make people&#8217;s borrowing decisions for them.  I commented on it tangentially here. </p>
<p><a href="http://troppoarmadillo.ubersportingpundit.com/archives/009567.html" >http://troppoarmadillo.ubersportingpundit.com/archives/009567.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: derrida derider</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2005/11/14/new-zealand-innovates-again-supplementary-monetary-policy-instruments/#comment-27969</link>
		<dc:creator>derrida derider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wordpress/?p=1965#comment-27969</guid>
		<description>"It has a yawning current account deficit, employment shortages producing some inflationary pressure, labour keeps heading across the Tasman, and housing credit keeps growing"

And you still admire NZ's economic management?

Lets face it, two decades of free-market zealotry has seen NZ living standards go steadily backwards relative to every other developed country in the world.  I know they started from a pretty unenviable position, but really they oughtta have done better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;It has a yawning current account deficit, employment shortages producing some inflationary pressure, labour keeps heading across the Tasman, and housing credit keeps growing&#8221;</p>
<p>And you still admire NZ&#8217;s economic management?</p>
<p>Lets face it, two decades of free-market zealotry has seen NZ living standards go steadily backwards relative to every other developed country in the world.  I know they started from a pretty unenviable position, but really they oughtta have done better.</p>
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		<title>By: Hugh Pavletich</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2005/11/14/new-zealand-innovates-again-supplementary-monetary-policy-instruments/#comment-27970</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugh Pavletich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wordpress/?p=1965#comment-27970</guid>
		<description>Dr Michael Cullen, the New Zealand Finance Minister and Dr Alan Bollard, the Reserve Bank Governor, will be heartened by the support from Troppo Armadillo !

Alas - there is no support within New Zealand for this "initiative".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr Michael Cullen, the New Zealand Finance Minister and Dr Alan Bollard, the Reserve Bank Governor, will be heartened by the support from Troppo Armadillo !</p>
<p>Alas - there is no support within New Zealand for this &#8220;initiative&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Nicholas Gruen</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2005/11/14/new-zealand-innovates-again-supplementary-monetary-policy-instruments/#comment-27971</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicholas Gruen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wordpress/?p=1965#comment-27971</guid>
		<description>DD, I admire their recent economic management - or at least innovations like their Super fund, default super and now their exploration of these issues. Their earlier reform looked OK to me on paper, but Australia's was better because it was more gradual and fairer. Now those who saw the NZ reform as too ideological, too radical and too unconcerned about inequality can take comfort in NZ's economic woes, but I have to admit (and I'd like to see some of them admit) that it remains quite a mystery as to why they did so much worse than us.  After all the reform agendas in Oz and NZ were similar, and if we went for more equality than them (which I support) it's still not immediately apparent why they should have had so much less growth. 

My only hypothesis is that Australia is sucking a fair bit of the life out of the place - pinching it's best and brightest.  A gravity model explanation. 

As an additional 'two bob's worth', I'd add that when I started learning about the NZ economy, I was shocked to learn that this country that has the best GST in the world, the country that is supposed to have done it all by the textbook has introduced neither capital gains tax nor (I think) means tests on old age pensions. A pretty poor set of reform priorities if you ask me, but still not enough to explain the difference between NZ's and Australia's economic performance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DD, I admire their recent economic management - or at least innovations like their Super fund, default super and now their exploration of these issues. Their earlier reform looked OK to me on paper, but Australia&#8217;s was better because it was more gradual and fairer. Now those who saw the NZ reform as too ideological, too radical and too unconcerned about inequality can take comfort in NZ&#8217;s economic woes, but I have to admit (and I&#8217;d like to see some of them admit) that it remains quite a mystery as to why they did so much worse than us.  After all the reform agendas in Oz and NZ were similar, and if we went for more equality than them (which I support) it&#8217;s still not immediately apparent why they should have had so much less growth. </p>
<p>My only hypothesis is that Australia is sucking a fair bit of the life out of the place - pinching it&#8217;s best and brightest.  A gravity model explanation. </p>
<p>As an additional &#8216;two bob&#8217;s worth&#8217;, I&#8217;d add that when I started learning about the NZ economy, I was shocked to learn that this country that has the best GST in the world, the country that is supposed to have done it all by the textbook has introduced neither capital gains tax nor (I think) means tests on old age pensions. A pretty poor set of reform priorities if you ask me, but still not enough to explain the difference between NZ&#8217;s and Australia&#8217;s economic performance.</p>
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		<title>By: John Humphreys</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2005/11/14/new-zealand-innovates-again-supplementary-monetary-policy-instruments/#comment-27972</link>
		<dc:creator>John Humphreys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wordpress/?p=1965#comment-27972</guid>
		<description>I know people get sick of libertarians saying "tax is bad mmm-kay", but NZ has higher tax/GDP than Australia. 

As for "It has a yawning current account deficit, employment shortages producing some inflationary pressure, labour keeps heading across the Tasman, and housing credit keeps growing"

I don't think the CAD, employment shortages or rising credit necessarily represent a problem. Indeed, so-called employment shortages seem to me like a good thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know people get sick of libertarians saying &#8220;tax is bad mmm-kay&#8221;, but NZ has higher tax/GDP than Australia. </p>
<p>As for &#8220;It has a yawning current account deficit, employment shortages producing some inflationary pressure, labour keeps heading across the Tasman, and housing credit keeps growing&#8221;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think the CAD, employment shortages or rising credit necessarily represent a problem. Indeed, so-called employment shortages seem to me like a good thing.</p>
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		<title>By: derrida derider</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2005/11/14/new-zealand-innovates-again-supplementary-monetary-policy-instruments/#comment-27973</link>
		<dc:creator>derrida derider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wordpress/?p=1965#comment-27973</guid>
		<description>Not taxing capital is received wisdom amongst strict econrats - the stuff's internationally mobile, you know (as though NZ labour isn't!), and taxing capital anyway has higher deadweight costs than taxing labour.

The means test on NZ's age pension has an interesting story.  Way back when it used to be means tested.  They got rid of the means test but imposed a special aged tax surcharge that had the effect of clawing the whole lot back from upper income people - this had the same effect in income terms as means testing but carried some big administrative advantages.

Predictably, taxing someone extra "just because they were old" was unpopular (though of course it wasn't just because they were old - it was because they were getting a pension they didn't need).  Winston Peters, in populist style, campaigned against the tax surcharge and had it removed.

FWIW, I think there is an excellent case for progressively removing the means test from the Australian age pension and paying for it by winding back tax concessions on superannuation.  It would actually boost household savings (the means test on the pension is a big barrier to voluntary saving for retirement, and pushes what saving there is into investment in the principal residence), would be far easier to administer, would encourage late retirement, is eminently affordable (the extra government outlay is about 0.5% of GDP now, rising to 1.5% in 2050) and would be distributionally fairer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not taxing capital is received wisdom amongst strict econrats - the stuff&#8217;s internationally mobile, you know (as though NZ labour isn&#8217;t!), and taxing capital anyway has higher deadweight costs than taxing labour.</p>
<p>The means test on NZ&#8217;s age pension has an interesting story.  Way back when it used to be means tested.  They got rid of the means test but imposed a special aged tax surcharge that had the effect of clawing the whole lot back from upper income people - this had the same effect in income terms as means testing but carried some big administrative advantages.</p>
<p>Predictably, taxing someone extra &#8220;just because they were old&#8221; was unpopular (though of course it wasn&#8217;t just because they were old - it was because they were getting a pension they didn&#8217;t need).  Winston Peters, in populist style, campaigned against the tax surcharge and had it removed.</p>
<p>FWIW, I think there is an excellent case for progressively removing the means test from the Australian age pension and paying for it by winding back tax concessions on superannuation.  It would actually boost household savings (the means test on the pension is a big barrier to voluntary saving for retirement, and pushes what saving there is into investment in the principal residence), would be far easier to administer, would encourage late retirement, is eminently affordable (the extra government outlay is about 0.5% of GDP now, rising to 1.5% in 2050) and would be distributionally fairer.</p>
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		<title>By: Hugh Pavletich</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2005/11/14/new-zealand-innovates-again-supplementary-monetary-policy-instruments/#comment-27974</link>
		<dc:creator>Hugh Pavletich</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wordpress/?p=1965#comment-27974</guid>
		<description>Regarding the difference in economic performance between Australia and New zealand - I would suspect, as a New Zealander - that much of it has to do with culture. In a sense - Australia is more entreprenerial like the United States, whilst New Zealand is somewhat more European.

Much of this goes back to the late 1800's when under the Premiership of Richard John Seddon - we New Zealanders saw ourselves as the "social justice laboratory of the world".

In 1900 - according to the OECD figures - New Zealand had the highest GDP per capita of Australia, Canada, the United States and Japan. Today - New Zealand is lower than all of them - and some 30% behind Australia. I will send this data to Nicholas.

Now on the rugby front.............</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding the difference in economic performance between Australia and New zealand - I would suspect, as a New Zealander - that much of it has to do with culture. In a sense - Australia is more entreprenerial like the United States, whilst New Zealand is somewhat more European.</p>
<p>Much of this goes back to the late 1800&#8217;s when under the Premiership of Richard John Seddon - we New Zealanders saw ourselves as the &#8220;social justice laboratory of the world&#8221;.</p>
<p>In 1900 - according to the OECD figures - New Zealand had the highest GDP per capita of Australia, Canada, the United States and Japan. Today - New Zealand is lower than all of them - and some 30% behind Australia. I will send this data to Nicholas.</p>
<p>Now on the rugby front&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Cameron Riley</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2005/11/14/new-zealand-innovates-again-supplementary-monetary-policy-instruments/#comment-27975</link>
		<dc:creator>Cameron Riley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wordpress/?p=1965#comment-27975</guid>
		<description>John, The diff between Au and NZ in total tax as a percentage of GDP isnt much different. For 2004, Au is 36.6% and NZ is 38.3%. It should be noted that in  1993 Au's tax as a percent of GDP was 27.4%. No wonder Howard has a name, deservedly, as the most taxatious Prime Minister EVAR.

That data on NZ was from this interesting PDF comparing NZ with the OECD;

http://www.stats.govt.nz/NR/rdonlyres/3526CCF7-E047-47D5-9B80-27C137E068C6/0/NZintheOECD.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John, The diff between Au and NZ in total tax as a percentage of GDP isnt much different. For 2004, Au is 36.6% and NZ is 38.3%. It should be noted that in  1993 Au&#8217;s tax as a percent of GDP was 27.4%. No wonder Howard has a name, deservedly, as the most taxatious Prime Minister EVAR.</p>
<p>That data on NZ was from this interesting PDF comparing NZ with the OECD;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.stats.govt.nz/NR/rdonlyres/3526CCF7-E047-47D5-9B80-27C137E068C6/0/NZintheOECD.pdf" >http://www.stats.govt.nz/NR/rdonlyres/3526CCF7-E047-47D5-9B80-27C137E068C6/0/NZintheOECD.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>By: derrida derider</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2005/11/14/new-zealand-innovates-again-supplementary-monetary-policy-instruments/#comment-27976</link>
		<dc:creator>derrida derider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 1999 00:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://localhost/wordpress/?p=1965#comment-27976</guid>
		<description>So Kiwis would rather play rugby than make a quid.  But the Aussie sterotype was always that we'd rather play sport (any sport) and bet on it than make said quid.  I don't reckon the "culture" explanation will really fly - we're too alike, and anyway in the long run culture changes in response to economic changes.

Nicholas' point about no-one - supporter or critic alike - having a good explanation of WHY the NZ experiment failed is a good one.  I suspect poor macro, rather than micro, economic management may be part of the answer, as it is in Europe.  But I'll have to think about it.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So Kiwis would rather play rugby than make a quid.  But the Aussie sterotype was always that we&#8217;d rather play sport (any sport) and bet on it than make said quid.  I don&#8217;t reckon the &#8220;culture&#8221; explanation will really fly - we&#8217;re too alike, and anyway in the long run culture changes in response to economic changes.</p>
<p>Nicholas&#8217; point about no-one - supporter or critic alike - having a good explanation of WHY the NZ experiment failed is a good one.  I suspect poor macro, rather than micro, economic management may be part of the answer, as it is in Europe.  But I&#8217;ll have to think about it.</p>
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