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	<title>Comments on: Help! I think I&#8217;m turning Democrat!</title>
	<atom:link href="http://clubtroppo.com.au/2006/03/31/help-i-think-im-turning-democrat/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2006/03/31/help-i-think-im-turning-democrat/</link>
	<description>Fearlessly dispensing political, legal and economic analysis (and some whimsy) since 2002</description>
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		<title>By: Nicholas Gruen</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2006/03/31/help-i-think-im-turning-democrat/#comment-30906</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicholas Gruen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Apr 2006 04:30:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2006/03/31/help-i-think-im-turning-democrat/#comment-30906</guid>
		<description>The way in which the Democrats were belittled within ALP circles at the time the ALP was in Government always irked me.  It always struck me as a kind of philistinism.  The Democrats in the Senate limited the ALP Govt&#039;s freedom of action very often (though obviously enough not always) in useful ways.  They were good at playing the political game, which involved them at times in making their points in simplistic ways and sometimes with simplistic policy measures and amendments. 

But that&#039;s politics.  Its not as if the other parties are immune from these foibles.  Their commitment not to block supply was born in a post 1975 climate and made political sense then.  But it was one of their lasting and most valuable legacies that they stayed true to that idea.  

They remained a pretty principled bunch. Even where the imperatives of politics are to big note yourself, the Dems got by by small noting themselves.  In particular they assiduously stuck to the line that they were there to moderate Government, not to obstruct it, and I think they did that well.  The political imperative is not to do this, but to make as big a splash and to wield as much power as possible.  

Ironically it was their attempt to do this with the GST helped along a couple of years later by the personal vanity of Meg Lees and Andrew Murray that led to their disintegration.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The way in which the Democrats were belittled within ALP circles at the time the ALP was in Government always irked me.  It always struck me as a kind of philistinism.  The Democrats in the Senate limited the ALP Govt&#8217;s freedom of action very often (though obviously enough not always) in useful ways.  They were good at playing the political game, which involved them at times in making their points in simplistic ways and sometimes with simplistic policy measures and amendments. </p>
<p>But that&#8217;s politics.  Its not as if the other parties are immune from these foibles.  Their commitment not to block supply was born in a post 1975 climate and made political sense then.  But it was one of their lasting and most valuable legacies that they stayed true to that idea.  </p>
<p>They remained a pretty principled bunch. Even where the imperatives of politics are to big note yourself, the Dems got by by small noting themselves.  In particular they assiduously stuck to the line that they were there to moderate Government, not to obstruct it, and I think they did that well.  The political imperative is not to do this, but to make as big a splash and to wield as much power as possible.  </p>
<p>Ironically it was their attempt to do this with the GST helped along a couple of years later by the personal vanity of Meg Lees and Andrew Murray that led to their disintegration.</p>
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		<title>By: Ron</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2006/03/31/help-i-think-im-turning-democrat/#comment-30902</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Apr 2006 01:11:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2006/03/31/help-i-think-im-turning-democrat/#comment-30902</guid>
		<description>And &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/here-we-go-again--sold-down-the-river/2006/03/31/1143441335669.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here&#039;s&lt;/a&gt; another &lt;b&gt;major issue&lt;/b&gt; that has passed through both houses of federal parliament reasonably quietly, with the only opposition coming from the Democrats and the Greens.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And <a href="http://www.smh.com.au/news/opinion/here-we-go-again--sold-down-the-river/2006/03/31/1143441335669.html">here&#8217;s</a> another <b>major issue</b> that has passed through both houses of federal parliament reasonably quietly, with the only opposition coming from the Democrats and the Greens.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Bartlett</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2006/03/31/help-i-think-im-turning-democrat/#comment-30898</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Bartlett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Mar 2006 02:38:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2006/03/31/help-i-think-im-turning-democrat/#comment-30898</guid>
		<description>Not surprisingly, I agree with the points Ken has made - not just about the Democrats but the real problem in getting much media or public attention given to any issue other than the one or two that are deemed to be controversial or &#039;important&#039; at any given time.

Not only does it mean people are unaware of planned laws that can affect them directly and significantly.  It also creates a strong disincentive for politicians and advocates to put energy into issues that don&#039;t get any attention, or putting time into examining the detail of proposed legislation rather than just acting as a propogandist for whatever simplistic position will have the best chance of getting media attention/votes.

I did a post on my blog at the start of this week about the (then) upcoming telecommunications interception bill - click &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.andrewbartlett.com/blog/?p=183&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;here to read it.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not surprisingly, I agree with the points Ken has made &#8211; not just about the Democrats but the real problem in getting much media or public attention given to any issue other than the one or two that are deemed to be controversial or &#8216;important&#8217; at any given time.</p>
<p>Not only does it mean people are unaware of planned laws that can affect them directly and significantly.  It also creates a strong disincentive for politicians and advocates to put energy into issues that don&#8217;t get any attention, or putting time into examining the detail of proposed legislation rather than just acting as a propogandist for whatever simplistic position will have the best chance of getting media attention/votes.</p>
<p>I did a post on my blog at the start of this week about the (then) upcoming telecommunications interception bill &#8211; click <a href="http://www.andrewbartlett.com/blog/?p=183">here to read it.</a></p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2006/03/31/help-i-think-im-turning-democrat/#comment-30894</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Mar 2006 23:15:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2006/03/31/help-i-think-im-turning-democrat/#comment-30894</guid>
		<description>Ken, this phone tapping issue has received smallish but fairly regular press, including a bit of a chat on it with Ruddock on Lateline some short while ago (I think, tho could have been 7.30 Report).  If I get a moment I&#039;ll try to hunt down the link.  Usually mention of it is as part of a wider reference to &#039;anti&#039; terror laws in general.

It&#039;s important you have chosen to bring it to light on the &#039;sphere.

Sadly, Australians showing or speaking little concern for these developments seems to be part of this disconcerting &quot;she&#039;ll be right&quot; attitude.  Or perhaps those who are concerned are put off by a touch of fear and don&#039;t comment.  Or perhaps some have swallowed the Government line and consider it a good thing, blind to the moment and true perspective, and inching along this slowly slowly catchy monkey game our PM plays so well.

Where will it all end up, this whole sad shebaninigan?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ken, this phone tapping issue has received smallish but fairly regular press, including a bit of a chat on it with Ruddock on Lateline some short while ago (I think, tho could have been 7.30 Report).  If I get a moment I&#8217;ll try to hunt down the link.  Usually mention of it is as part of a wider reference to &#8216;anti&#8217; terror laws in general.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s important you have chosen to bring it to light on the &#8216;sphere.</p>
<p>Sadly, Australians showing or speaking little concern for these developments seems to be part of this disconcerting &#8220;she&#8217;ll be right&#8221; attitude.  Or perhaps those who are concerned are put off by a touch of fear and don&#8217;t comment.  Or perhaps some have swallowed the Government line and consider it a good thing, blind to the moment and true perspective, and inching along this slowly slowly catchy monkey game our PM plays so well.</p>
<p>Where will it all end up, this whole sad shebaninigan?</p>
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		<title>By: Cameron Riley</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2006/03/31/help-i-think-im-turning-democrat/#comment-30891</link>
		<dc:creator>Cameron Riley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Mar 2006 15:42:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2006/03/31/help-i-think-im-turning-democrat/#comment-30891</guid>
		<description>The Democrats stand alone in having policies based on good governance. They have the most reasonable platform on these issues of any party. It is a shame these get lost in the more sensationalist statist stuff. I have argued in the past that the Democrats should &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.southsearepublic.org/story/2005/1/23/12613/2448&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;trim their message down&lt;/a&gt;.

I agree that bloggers should produce more primary material and act more as journalists or news-breakers. Since I have been going through the publications that government bodies put out, like the ABS etc, I have realised that much of the reporting in the SMH and so forth is just a couple of paragraphs on a report that the government department has released with two extreme quotes on it. Usually one from each extreme end of the aisle on the issue. 

The mass media is a very efficient trolling machine. Which is probably why most blogs are dedicated to getting upset over Miranda Devine or Clive Hamilton.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Democrats stand alone in having policies based on good governance. They have the most reasonable platform on these issues of any party. It is a shame these get lost in the more sensationalist statist stuff. I have argued in the past that the Democrats should <a href="http://www.southsearepublic.org/story/2005/1/23/12613/2448">trim their message down</a>.</p>
<p>I agree that bloggers should produce more primary material and act more as journalists or news-breakers. Since I have been going through the publications that government bodies put out, like the ABS etc, I have realised that much of the reporting in the SMH and so forth is just a couple of paragraphs on a report that the government department has released with two extreme quotes on it. Usually one from each extreme end of the aisle on the issue. </p>
<p>The mass media is a very efficient trolling machine. Which is probably why most blogs are dedicated to getting upset over Miranda Devine or Clive Hamilton.</p>
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