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	<title>Comments on: Liquidating liquidators?</title>
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	<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2006/06/19/liquidating-liquidators/</link>
	<description>Fearlessly dispensing political, legal and economic analysis (and some whimsy) since 2002</description>
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		<title>By: Tel</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2006/06/19/liquidating-liquidators/#comment-452865</link>
		<dc:creator>Tel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Dec 2011 08:08:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2006/06/19/liquidating-liquidators/#comment-452865</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
But another creditor ‘went for the throat’. The insolvency firm now has a claim for fees that exceed the total debts, so probably end of the road for that business. But, whichever way my colleagues and I look at it, we cannot understand the size of the fees, unless insolvency firms charge one hours fee for licking a stamp.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Surely this creditor just destroyed any chance they had of getting paid. One would conclude that if they did this out of spite then the liquidator offered them good value, but if they were genuinely expecting to recover their losses they might have learnt a lesson.

Most of the legal system seems either directly or indirectly built around mutually assured destruction, so this seems to fit with the scheme reasonably well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
But another creditor ‘went for the throat’. The insolvency firm now has a claim for fees that exceed the total debts, so probably end of the road for that business. But, whichever way my colleagues and I look at it, we cannot understand the size of the fees, unless insolvency firms charge one hours fee for licking a stamp.
</p></blockquote>
<p>Surely this creditor just destroyed any chance they had of getting paid. One would conclude that if they did this out of spite then the liquidator offered them good value, but if they were genuinely expecting to recover their losses they might have learnt a lesson.</p>
<p>Most of the legal system seems either directly or indirectly built around mutually assured destruction, so this seems to fit with the scheme reasonably well.</p>
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		<title>By: Jarrah McKenzie</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2006/06/19/liquidating-liquidators/#comment-452835</link>
		<dc:creator>Jarrah McKenzie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Dec 2011 04:08:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2006/06/19/liquidating-liquidators/#comment-452835</guid>
		<description>Administrator liquidated for 18 months
Mark Hawthorne, The Age
February 10, 2010

AN INVESTIGATION by the corporate plod has resulted in high-profile accountant Dean McVeigh of Foremans Business Advisors being banned from acting as a voluntary administrator or liquidator for 18 months.

The Companies Auditors and Liquidators Disciplinary Board found that McVeigh &#039;&#039;failed to carry out or perform adequately and properly the duties of a liquidator&#039;&#039; during the administration of 10 companies between 2001 and 2007.

The board adjudicates on registered auditors and liquidators who are reported by the Australian Securities and Investments Commission or the Australian Prudential Regulation Authority.

In its 227-page report, CALDB found McVeigh failed to disclose to creditors his relationships with companies, company directors and professional advisers while involved in liquidations.

The board found that McVeigh should not have accepted several liquidations because of such conflicts.

He &#039;&#039;failed adequately and properly to investigate the business, property, affairs and financial circumstances&#039;&#039; of several companies after being appointed liquidator.

Of the 52 breaches alleged by ASIC, the CALDB panel found 48 were established &#039;&#039;to our satisfaction&#039;&#039;.

The name Dean Royston McVeigh has popped up several times over the years.

In 2005, he was liquidator of the Melbourne University Student Union Inc and issued a writ against former MUSU presidents Andrew Landeryou and Ben Cass.

McVeigh claimed a &#039;&#039;conspiracy in relation to the alleged diversion of profit from the union bar and food outlets to Landeryou and Cass&#039;&#039; through various firms.

McVeigh also took action against Cass for contempt of court over comments he published about the MUSU liquidation in a blog.

Justice Elizabeth Hollingworth found the blog comments had a &#039;&#039;strong degree of factual accuracy&#039;&#039;. It was a remarkable court victory for Cass, a part-time student who represented himself in the proceedings.

&#039;&#039;At the heart of [Cass&#039;] concerns is his assertion that the liquidator started with about $6 million in assets and $4 million in liabilities, but instead of simply paying out creditors has spent millions of dollars on professional fees pursuing this litigation against impoverished or impecunious defendants,&#039;&#039; Justice Hollingworth said.

In 2008, McVeigh&#039;s name appeared in the papers after Carlton&#039;s Rathdowne Tavern went bust. Creditors from Laanecoorie Vineyard noted that the owners, Nicholas and Jody Harvey, were trading in the same business, using the same name, in the same building, and were &#039;&#039;driving around in a very fancy black Mercedes&#039;&#039;.

McVeigh was the liquidator of the business.

According to yesterday&#039;s CALDB decision, several of the private companies that McVeigh liquidated faced bills from the Tax Office. One, called IDKF, faced legal action from the NSW Minister for Commerce over a claimed $2.8 million debt.

ASIC raised questions about fund transfers out of the companies before they were wound up.

The panel, in its explanation of its decision, found that several of McVeigh&#039;s actions were &#039;&#039;contrary to the applicable professional standards and to law&#039;&#039;.

In addition to his 18-month ban, McVeigh was ordered to complete additional &#039;&#039;continuing professional development&#039;&#039;. When his suspension has ended, he will be subject to peer reviews of his next five voluntary administrations and next five creditors voluntary liquidations.

McVeigh, who has denied any wrongdoing, runs a business called McVeigh Corporate Advisory.



Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/business/administrator-liquidated-for-18-months-20100209-npvx.html#ixzz1fFiiCkJO</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Administrator liquidated for 18 months<br />
Mark Hawthorne, The Age<br />
February 10, 2010</p>
<p>AN INVESTIGATION by the corporate plod has resulted in high-profile accountant Dean McVeigh of Foremans Business Advisors being banned from acting as a voluntary administrator or liquidator for 18 months.</p>
<p>The Companies Auditors and Liquidators Disciplinary Board found that McVeigh &#8221;failed to carry out or perform adequately and properly the duties of a liquidator&#8221; during the administration of 10 companies between 2001 and 2007.</p>
<p>The board adjudicates on registered auditors and liquidators who are reported by the Australian Securities and Investments Commission or the Australian Prudential Regulation Authority.</p>
<p>In its 227-page report, CALDB found McVeigh failed to disclose to creditors his relationships with companies, company directors and professional advisers while involved in liquidations.</p>
<p>The board found that McVeigh should not have accepted several liquidations because of such conflicts.</p>
<p>He &#8221;failed adequately and properly to investigate the business, property, affairs and financial circumstances&#8221; of several companies after being appointed liquidator.</p>
<p>Of the 52 breaches alleged by ASIC, the CALDB panel found 48 were established &#8221;to our satisfaction&#8221;.</p>
<p>The name Dean Royston McVeigh has popped up several times over the years.</p>
<p>In 2005, he was liquidator of the Melbourne University Student Union Inc and issued a writ against former MUSU presidents Andrew Landeryou and Ben Cass.</p>
<p>McVeigh claimed a &#8221;conspiracy in relation to the alleged diversion of profit from the union bar and food outlets to Landeryou and Cass&#8221; through various firms.</p>
<p>McVeigh also took action against Cass for contempt of court over comments he published about the MUSU liquidation in a blog.</p>
<p>Justice Elizabeth Hollingworth found the blog comments had a &#8221;strong degree of factual accuracy&#8221;. It was a remarkable court victory for Cass, a part-time student who represented himself in the proceedings.</p>
<p>&#8221;At the heart of [Cass'] concerns is his assertion that the liquidator started with about $6 million in assets and $4 million in liabilities, but instead of simply paying out creditors has spent millions of dollars on professional fees pursuing this litigation against impoverished or impecunious defendants,&#8221; Justice Hollingworth said.</p>
<p>In 2008, McVeigh&#8217;s name appeared in the papers after Carlton&#8217;s Rathdowne Tavern went bust. Creditors from Laanecoorie Vineyard noted that the owners, Nicholas and Jody Harvey, were trading in the same business, using the same name, in the same building, and were &#8221;driving around in a very fancy black Mercedes&#8221;.</p>
<p>McVeigh was the liquidator of the business.</p>
<p>According to yesterday&#8217;s CALDB decision, several of the private companies that McVeigh liquidated faced bills from the Tax Office. One, called IDKF, faced legal action from the NSW Minister for Commerce over a claimed $2.8 million debt.</p>
<p>ASIC raised questions about fund transfers out of the companies before they were wound up.</p>
<p>The panel, in its explanation of its decision, found that several of McVeigh&#8217;s actions were &#8221;contrary to the applicable professional standards and to law&#8221;.</p>
<p>In addition to his 18-month ban, McVeigh was ordered to complete additional &#8221;continuing professional development&#8221;. When his suspension has ended, he will be subject to peer reviews of his next five voluntary administrations and next five creditors voluntary liquidations.</p>
<p>McVeigh, who has denied any wrongdoing, runs a business called McVeigh Corporate Advisory.</p>
<p>Read more: <a href="http://www.theage.com.au/business/administrator-liquidated-for-18-months-20100209-npvx.html#ixzz1fFiiCkJO">http://www.theage.com.au/business/administrator-liquidated-for-18-months-20100209-npvx.html#ixzz1fFiiCkJO</a></p>
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		<title>By: Independent Observer</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2006/06/19/liquidating-liquidators/#comment-405644</link>
		<dc:creator>Independent Observer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Oct 2010 12:02:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2006/06/19/liquidating-liquidators/#comment-405644</guid>
		<description>It should be noted that Mr McVeigh had passed away having died from keart failure. Prior to his death he was found guilty, in another matter, of unprofessional conduct and was suspended from practicing as a liquidator. Not sure as to the status of the MUSU case but it would appear very much that the Lawyers and Liquidation of the Union was not in the interest of meeting the expenses of creditors or its members., The main beneficiary of the liquidation was and is the lawyers and liquidator. A clear response to all this is of course that limits in terms of fees as a percentage of realisable assets and administration should be capped. If as is the case with the MUSU the value of assets exceeded the value owed to creditors then creditors should have beeen paid first before fees are deducted and that creditors should have equal weight to members entitlements in overseeing the administration and liquidation of a company.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It should be noted that Mr McVeigh had passed away having died from keart failure. Prior to his death he was found guilty, in another matter, of unprofessional conduct and was suspended from practicing as a liquidator. Not sure as to the status of the MUSU case but it would appear very much that the Lawyers and Liquidation of the Union was not in the interest of meeting the expenses of creditors or its members., The main beneficiary of the liquidation was and is the lawyers and liquidator. A clear response to all this is of course that limits in terms of fees as a percentage of realisable assets and administration should be capped. If as is the case with the MUSU the value of assets exceeded the value owed to creditors then creditors should have beeen paid first before fees are deducted and that creditors should have equal weight to members entitlements in overseeing the administration and liquidation of a company.</p>
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		<title>By: Benjamin Cass</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2006/06/19/liquidating-liquidators/#comment-307030</link>
		<dc:creator>Benjamin Cass</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Aug 2008 14:15:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2006/06/19/liquidating-liquidators/#comment-307030</guid>
		<description>Remarkably, 2 years on from the discussion above tracking a (then) 3 year liquidation process, the Melbourne University Student Union is still under the control of Dean Royston McVeigh of Foremans Business Advisors.  

5 years of fees and counting.

Readers would also be interested to know that there are now no defendants to any litigation commenced by Mr McVeigh after he dropped action against all original named parties to a Statement of Claim regularly the source of much amusement amongst legal circles.  

Of the twelve original defendants, eight &#039;settled&#039; for zero and of the remaining four, the highest amount agreed to was the grand sum of $25,000 after consideration of the legal fees involved in defending the matter, however spurious the Claim may have been.

One can only wonder when this sad and disgraceful chapter will end.

Thank you,


Benjamin Cass</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Remarkably, 2 years on from the discussion above tracking a (then) 3 year liquidation process, the Melbourne University Student Union is still under the control of Dean Royston McVeigh of Foremans Business Advisors.  </p>
<p>5 years of fees and counting.</p>
<p>Readers would also be interested to know that there are now no defendants to any litigation commenced by Mr McVeigh after he dropped action against all original named parties to a Statement of Claim regularly the source of much amusement amongst legal circles.  </p>
<p>Of the twelve original defendants, eight &#8216;settled&#8217; for zero and of the remaining four, the highest amount agreed to was the grand sum of $25,000 after consideration of the legal fees involved in defending the matter, however spurious the Claim may have been.</p>
<p>One can only wonder when this sad and disgraceful chapter will end.</p>
<p>Thank you,</p>
<p>Benjamin Cass</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Yates</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2006/06/19/liquidating-liquidators/#comment-68281</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Yates</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Dec 2006 01:47:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2006/06/19/liquidating-liquidators/#comment-68281</guid>
		<description>Regarding Gerald&#039;s above note, it seems that MakeMcVeighPay has been removed from the Internet. What appears to have occurred is that Mr McVeigh used his legal skills and expenses to initiate yet more proceedings, accusing Mr Cass of stalking. It is thought that Cass decided not to fight, but took down the website, a resolution of sorts. Gerald refers to McVeigh&#039;s &#039;downfall&#039;. But surely he is still going strong? Is it not it the absence of any genuine ethical accountability that is still the big issue here?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding Gerald&#8217;s above note, it seems that MakeMcVeighPay has been removed from the Internet. What appears to have occurred is that Mr McVeigh used his legal skills and expenses to initiate yet more proceedings, accusing Mr Cass of stalking. It is thought that Cass decided not to fight, but took down the website, a resolution of sorts. Gerald refers to McVeigh&#8217;s &#8216;downfall&#8217;. But surely he is still going strong? Is it not it the absence of any genuine ethical accountability that is still the big issue here?</p>
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		<title>By: Gerard K</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2006/06/19/liquidating-liquidators/#comment-68275</link>
		<dc:creator>Gerard K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Dec 2006 01:26:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2006/06/19/liquidating-liquidators/#comment-68275</guid>
		<description>It seems citizen activism has been taken to a whole new level care of the internet.....makeaggspay.blogspot.com  Seems like a copycat of the famous Make McVeigh Pay website by Benjamin Cass which was a catalyst in the downfall of the Melbourne University Student Union liquidator, Dean McVeigh.

Not sure of the details of this particualr matter other than it has only recent been published.

:)

Gerard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems citizen activism has been taken to a whole new level care of the internet&#8230;..makeaggspay.blogspot.com  Seems like a copycat of the famous Make McVeigh Pay website by Benjamin Cass which was a catalyst in the downfall of the Melbourne University Student Union liquidator, Dean McVeigh.</p>
<p>Not sure of the details of this particualr matter other than it has only recent been published.</p>
<p>:)</p>
<p>Gerard.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Yates</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2006/06/19/liquidating-liquidators/#comment-42094</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Yates</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Aug 2006 00:37:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2006/06/19/liquidating-liquidators/#comment-42094</guid>
		<description>Just a note to say that Ben Cass did reply to my question, personally, and I felt the reply sensible. But Ken is quite correct that this is not an appropropriate venue to air aspects which need close reality checking. The matter concerns individual actions, rather than general principles. Hence people further interested in this might want to see Ben&#039;s own blog. This is public domain, its given in Justice Hollingworth&#039;s summations (paragraph 20), and a link exists within Ken&#039;s blog of 19 June.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just a note to say that Ben Cass did reply to my question, personally, and I felt the reply sensible. But Ken is quite correct that this is not an appropropriate venue to air aspects which need close reality checking. The matter concerns individual actions, rather than general principles. Hence people further interested in this might want to see Ben&#8217;s own blog. This is public domain, its given in Justice Hollingworth&#8217;s summations (paragraph 20), and a link exists within Ken&#8217;s blog of 19 June.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Keenan</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2006/06/19/liquidating-liquidators/#comment-42091</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Keenan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Aug 2006 00:02:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2006/06/19/liquidating-liquidators/#comment-42091</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve just discovered your excellent website. As an insolvency practitioner I recently set up a blog to release my papers and submissions on Australian &lt;a href=&quot;http://insolvency.blogster.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;insolvency&lt;/a&gt; law and practice and to advocate reforms.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve just discovered your excellent website. As an insolvency practitioner I recently set up a blog to release my papers and submissions on Australian <a href="http://insolvency.blogster.com">insolvency</a> law and practice and to advocate reforms.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Parish</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2006/06/19/liquidating-liquidators/#comment-42077</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Parish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Aug 2006 21:35:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2006/06/19/liquidating-liquidators/#comment-42077</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve had to delete Benjamin Cass&#039;s very interesting response to Greg&#039;s question above, due to assessed defamation risk.  Benjamin&#039;s facts may well be correct (and therefore his statements/comment defendable) but I have no way of knowing that without undertaking research and checking for which I lack the time and resources.  A conservative approach perhaps, but at the age of 52 and after recently going through a family law property settlement I don&#039;t want to put my house on the line.  What Benjamin says on his own blog is his own business, but here at Troppo it&#039;s different.  I take the attitude that we&#039;re just as suable as a newspaper.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve had to delete Benjamin Cass&#8217;s very interesting response to Greg&#8217;s question above, due to assessed defamation risk.  Benjamin&#8217;s facts may well be correct (and therefore his statements/comment defendable) but I have no way of knowing that without undertaking research and checking for which I lack the time and resources.  A conservative approach perhaps, but at the age of 52 and after recently going through a family law property settlement I don&#8217;t want to put my house on the line.  What Benjamin says on his own blog is his own business, but here at Troppo it&#8217;s different.  I take the attitude that we&#8217;re just as suable as a newspaper.</p>
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		<title>By: Charles Henderson</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2006/06/19/liquidating-liquidators/#comment-41852</link>
		<dc:creator>Charles Henderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Aug 2006 04:37:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2006/06/19/liquidating-liquidators/#comment-41852</guid>
		<description>Many thanks to Ken Parish, legal practitioner, for his post on June 19. I&#039;m only sorry I didn&#039;t come across it sooner, because I was beginning to think no one else in the Australian insolvency profession was questioning the independence of company administrators and liquidators (and bankruptcy trustees) and the abuses that occur.

I am a chartered accountant and registered liquidator who has been working in the profession for over 20 years. I have been disgusted by the abuses and the disregard for ethical standards in the profession.  Too many insolvency practioners simply pay lip service to the law and to best practice standards.  Moreover, their professional association has perfected the art of schmoozing the regulators, ASIC and ITSA.

Obviously something needs to be done.  But I don&#039;t think the answer lies in setting up a division of ASIC to take the place of insolvency practitioners in private practice.

Once upon a time, liquidators were appointed by the Court on a rotation system.  Such a system would mean that if a creditor puts a company into liquidation, or the company puts itself into liquidation, the liquidator who gets the job is the one who appears next on the court&#039;s list.  In this way he or she is more likely to act independently.  I think this system should be given serious consideration again, because independence is crucial and obviously cannot be achieved just by official exhortation.

I have published a number of articles on my own blog, which is titled Australian Insolvency Practice and Malpractice and is at http://goingbroke.blogster.com.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many thanks to Ken Parish, legal practitioner, for his post on June 19. I&#8217;m only sorry I didn&#8217;t come across it sooner, because I was beginning to think no one else in the Australian insolvency profession was questioning the independence of company administrators and liquidators (and bankruptcy trustees) and the abuses that occur.</p>
<p>I am a chartered accountant and registered liquidator who has been working in the profession for over 20 years. I have been disgusted by the abuses and the disregard for ethical standards in the profession.  Too many insolvency practioners simply pay lip service to the law and to best practice standards.  Moreover, their professional association has perfected the art of schmoozing the regulators, ASIC and ITSA.</p>
<p>Obviously something needs to be done.  But I don&#8217;t think the answer lies in setting up a division of ASIC to take the place of insolvency practitioners in private practice.</p>
<p>Once upon a time, liquidators were appointed by the Court on a rotation system.  Such a system would mean that if a creditor puts a company into liquidation, or the company puts itself into liquidation, the liquidator who gets the job is the one who appears next on the court&#8217;s list.  In this way he or she is more likely to act independently.  I think this system should be given serious consideration again, because independence is crucial and obviously cannot be achieved just by official exhortation.</p>
<p>I have published a number of articles on my own blog, which is titled Australian Insolvency Practice and Malpractice and is at <a href="http://goingbroke.blogster.com">http://goingbroke.blogster.com</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg Yates</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2006/06/19/liquidating-liquidators/#comment-41545</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg Yates</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Aug 2006 13:01:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2006/06/19/liquidating-liquidators/#comment-41545</guid>
		<description>Query to Benjamin, please. Are you in a position to assess just how long this MUSU affair will go on for, as I think it began some 3 years ago (?). What insight can you offer as to how a liquidator can keep up this type of activity apparently without being accountable to any visible community? Is this normal behaviour for this profession? Your antipathy to McVeigh is well-known. But does he merely represent the normal/expected conduct of the profession? The question really revolves around just who is accountable to whom. Or can they set their own agendas?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Query to Benjamin, please. Are you in a position to assess just how long this MUSU affair will go on for, as I think it began some 3 years ago (?). What insight can you offer as to how a liquidator can keep up this type of activity apparently without being accountable to any visible community? Is this normal behaviour for this profession? Your antipathy to McVeigh is well-known. But does he merely represent the normal/expected conduct of the profession? The question really revolves around just who is accountable to whom. Or can they set their own agendas?</p>
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		<title>By: Benjamin Cass</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2006/06/19/liquidating-liquidators/#comment-41518</link>
		<dc:creator>Benjamin Cass</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 14 Aug 2006 08:10:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2006/06/19/liquidating-liquidators/#comment-41518</guid>
		<description>Ken, I stumbled across your site and was indeed interested with your post and the comments of your readers.  While some of your readers&#039; &quot;suss o meters&quot; may have been alerted to my comments, it gives me no great pleasure to highlight I am soon to be in a Part X arrangement with creditors and Mr Landeryou is bankrupt.  

The point being that there were never any &quot;missing millions&quot;.  I only wish.  If I did I wouldnt be in this financial position now!

What must be understood about the MUSU farce is the alternate scenario if a Liquidator with any scruples had taken control......MUSU has $6 million in cash and assets.  MUSU had $4 million in debts and liabilities.  A Liquidator (not McVeigh) realises the assets, pays out a 100c dividend and distributes the balance in favour of the new student organisation.  The time to undertake such an excercise?  About 2-3 months.  

Who would have lost out of this scenario?  Creditors? No.  They would have received 100c in the dollar.  The new student organisation?  No.  They would have received the balance after MUSU&#039;s assest were realised and MUSU&#039;s debts were paid.  

So the only loser than would have been .....(drum roll please) one Dean Royston McVeigh and Graeme Levy of Madgwicks Lawyers.  The two firms have billed in excess of $7.2 million in professional fees over three years.  This is a mind boggling figure to wind up a solvent student organisation.

The point of course is that without a long winded legal case involving multiple parties and multiple complications (namely that the tabloid headlines of &#039;missing millions&#039; were not reflected in the statement of claim) Dean McVeigh and Graeme Levy would not have walked away with millions, they would have walked away with tens of thousands of dollars.    

Greed, and only greed, were the motivations for a lengthy liquidation based on bizarre legal grounds that are routinely the source of humour for any lawyer who has ever taken the time to read the Statement of Claim.  

Holding absolutely no prior expertise in this area and without any legal training other than three years of being self represented against the supposed best of the best, I have a number of very firmly held beliefs as to how the system can be reformed to genuinely aid distressed companies and their creditors.

Thank you for the opportunity of posting and I would only be too pleased to answer any questions form either yourself or your readers.

Benjamin Cass</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ken, I stumbled across your site and was indeed interested with your post and the comments of your readers.  While some of your readers&#8217; &#8220;suss o meters&#8221; may have been alerted to my comments, it gives me no great pleasure to highlight I am soon to be in a Part X arrangement with creditors and Mr Landeryou is bankrupt.  </p>
<p>The point being that there were never any &#8220;missing millions&#8221;.  I only wish.  If I did I wouldnt be in this financial position now!</p>
<p>What must be understood about the MUSU farce is the alternate scenario if a Liquidator with any scruples had taken control&#8230;&#8230;MUSU has $6 million in cash and assets.  MUSU had $4 million in debts and liabilities.  A Liquidator (not McVeigh) realises the assets, pays out a 100c dividend and distributes the balance in favour of the new student organisation.  The time to undertake such an excercise?  About 2-3 months.  </p>
<p>Who would have lost out of this scenario?  Creditors? No.  They would have received 100c in the dollar.  The new student organisation?  No.  They would have received the balance after MUSU&#8217;s assest were realised and MUSU&#8217;s debts were paid.  </p>
<p>So the only loser than would have been &#8230;..(drum roll please) one Dean Royston McVeigh and Graeme Levy of Madgwicks Lawyers.  The two firms have billed in excess of $7.2 million in professional fees over three years.  This is a mind boggling figure to wind up a solvent student organisation.</p>
<p>The point of course is that without a long winded legal case involving multiple parties and multiple complications (namely that the tabloid headlines of &#8216;missing millions&#8217; were not reflected in the statement of claim) Dean McVeigh and Graeme Levy would not have walked away with millions, they would have walked away with tens of thousands of dollars.    </p>
<p>Greed, and only greed, were the motivations for a lengthy liquidation based on bizarre legal grounds that are routinely the source of humour for any lawyer who has ever taken the time to read the Statement of Claim.  </p>
<p>Holding absolutely no prior expertise in this area and without any legal training other than three years of being self represented against the supposed best of the best, I have a number of very firmly held beliefs as to how the system can be reformed to genuinely aid distressed companies and their creditors.</p>
<p>Thank you for the opportunity of posting and I would only be too pleased to answer any questions form either yourself or your readers.</p>
<p>Benjamin Cass</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Parish</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2006/06/19/liquidating-liquidators/#comment-35679</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Parish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jun 2006 06:20:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2006/06/19/liquidating-liquidators/#comment-35679</guid>
		<description>Fair enough. And nice to see you back in the blogosphere land of the living, Wayne. Can we expect a post from you soon?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fair enough. And nice to see you back in the blogosphere land of the living, Wayne. Can we expect a post from you soon?</p>
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		<title>By: woodsy</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2006/06/19/liquidating-liquidators/#comment-35676</link>
		<dc:creator>woodsy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jun 2006 06:06:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2006/06/19/liquidating-liquidators/#comment-35676</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t even suggest that ASIC become involved ! My daily experience with the morons employed by ASIC (it seems that they are almost all &#039;special counsels&#039;)is that they have no sense of reality. Trapped as they are in their ivory towers, they seem incapable of understanding that they exist to watch over corprations, not drown them in red tape and legalistic waffle.

An example of ASIC&#039;s uselessness is seeking advice on how to deal with the intestate death of a sole shareholder/director.

No, whatever the solution, and I agree that the whole liquidation process must be examined, the suggestion that ASIC become involved would lead to even more disaster.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t even suggest that ASIC become involved ! My daily experience with the morons employed by ASIC (it seems that they are almost all &#8216;special counsels&#8217;)is that they have no sense of reality. Trapped as they are in their ivory towers, they seem incapable of understanding that they exist to watch over corprations, not drown them in red tape and legalistic waffle.</p>
<p>An example of ASIC&#8217;s uselessness is seeking advice on how to deal with the intestate death of a sole shareholder/director.</p>
<p>No, whatever the solution, and I agree that the whole liquidation process must be examined, the suggestion that ASIC become involved would lead to even more disaster.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2006/06/19/liquidating-liquidators/#comment-35570</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jun 2006 06:15:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2006/06/19/liquidating-liquidators/#comment-35570</guid>
		<description>Huh?  I&#039;ll pick up where Wordpress left off, then...

&lt;i&gt;One possible solution that will appeal to your socialism is work out the average return in small (say&lt;/i&gt; less than $15 million) liquidations, and have ASIC pay this amount plus eg 5 cents in the dollar to all creditors and chase up all debts themselves.

PS I also agree that this is a case of at best pots and kettles.  But insolvencies are very tricky, mainly because the whole idea is that people must lose some of their money.  Which is in turn on of the reasons for the high fees of liquidators.  Another argument they make is that they do a lot where there is simply nothing, and accordingly don&#039;t get paid at all, so they have to charge to reflect this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Huh?  I&#8217;ll pick up where Wordpress left off, then&#8230;</p>
<p><i>One possible solution that will appeal to your socialism is work out the average return in small (say</i> less than $15 million) liquidations, and have ASIC pay this amount plus eg 5 cents in the dollar to all creditors and chase up all debts themselves.</p>
<p>PS I also agree that this is a case of at best pots and kettles.  But insolvencies are very tricky, mainly because the whole idea is that people must lose some of their money.  Which is in turn on of the reasons for the high fees of liquidators.  Another argument they make is that they do a lot where there is simply nothing, and accordingly don&#8217;t get paid at all, so they have to charge to reflect this.</p>
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		<title>By: Geoff R</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2006/06/19/liquidating-liquidators/#comment-35566</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff R</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jun 2006 05:21:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2006/06/19/liquidating-liquidators/#comment-35566</guid>
		<description>Indeed, indeed, very clearly the case, as anyone with background knowledge would know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed, indeed, very clearly the case, as anyone with background knowledge would know.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Watson</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2006/06/19/liquidating-liquidators/#comment-35565</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Watson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Jun 2006 04:32:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2006/06/19/liquidating-liquidators/#comment-35565</guid>
		<description>&quot;We can&#039;t therefore eliminate the possibility that Cass and Landeryou are indeed attempting to create an elaborate smokescreen to coerce or bluff the liquidator into settling so that efforts to trace the allegedly missing $1 million [via Marbain Pty Ltd, a company controlled by Landeryou and Cass] are discontinued.&quot;

Indeed, and such seems to be clearly the case, IMO.  While McVeigh is plainly doing little, or worse, for MUSU creditors, to style him as the (main) bad guy is a travesty.  

Here, my suss-ometer scale reading went to &quot;eleven&quot; upon reading this exculpatory attempt by Cass:  &quot;$2M ... is how much McVeigh reckons he will get out of suing bankrupts, near bankrupts, insolvent companies and 20 year olds!&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;We can&#8217;t therefore eliminate the possibility that Cass and Landeryou are indeed attempting to create an elaborate smokescreen to coerce or bluff the liquidator into settling so that efforts to trace the allegedly missing $1 million [via Marbain Pty Ltd, a company controlled by Landeryou and Cass] are discontinued.&#8221;</p>
<p>Indeed, and such seems to be clearly the case, IMO.  While McVeigh is plainly doing little, or worse, for MUSU creditors, to style him as the (main) bad guy is a travesty.  </p>
<p>Here, my suss-ometer scale reading went to &#8220;eleven&#8221; upon reading this exculpatory attempt by Cass:  &#8220;$2M &#8230; is how much McVeigh reckons he will get out of suing bankrupts, near bankrupts, insolvent companies and 20 year olds!&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Thomas the Tout</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2006/06/19/liquidating-liquidators/#comment-35552</link>
		<dc:creator>Thomas the Tout</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jun 2006 23:50:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2006/06/19/liquidating-liquidators/#comment-35552</guid>
		<description>Bingo!
My firm has recently been involved with two people who had tangled with insolvency practitioners (Generic for liquidators, Trustees in Bankruptcy, and others). I thought that we lawyers charged like a petrol pump, but I was astounded by the large fees of the &#039;insolvency specialists&#039;. 

I was gearing up to challenge one of them, but a learned colleague told me that his experience is that the Court does not wish to scrutinise the fees charged by the Trustee in Bankruptcy. Plus my client accepted a deal, so end of fight.

In the other, I am now a creditor, but with a deal of sympathy for the debtor, and I would like him to keep running his business. But another creditor &#039;went for the throat&#039;. The insolvency firm now has a claim for fees that exceed the total debts, so probably end of the road for that business.    But, whichever way my colleagues and I look at it, we cannot understand the size of the fees, unless insolvency firms charge one hours fee for licking a stamp.

The insolvency practitioners are accountable to whomever or whatever appoints them, but those people/bodies seldom, if ever, hold the practitioner responsible. The reason/mechanics of that are articulately put by KP.

A directive by a Chief Justice that the taxing Masters are to carefully scrutinise the practitioners fees would be a good start. Followed by a taxation of fees-if need be, funded and run by legal aid. The tools to correct the problem are there, but no-one has the both the desire and the ability to use them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bingo!<br />
My firm has recently been involved with two people who had tangled with insolvency practitioners (Generic for liquidators, Trustees in Bankruptcy, and others). I thought that we lawyers charged like a petrol pump, but I was astounded by the large fees of the &#8216;insolvency specialists&#8217;. </p>
<p>I was gearing up to challenge one of them, but a learned colleague told me that his experience is that the Court does not wish to scrutinise the fees charged by the Trustee in Bankruptcy. Plus my client accepted a deal, so end of fight.</p>
<p>In the other, I am now a creditor, but with a deal of sympathy for the debtor, and I would like him to keep running his business. But another creditor &#8216;went for the throat&#8217;. The insolvency firm now has a claim for fees that exceed the total debts, so probably end of the road for that business.    But, whichever way my colleagues and I look at it, we cannot understand the size of the fees, unless insolvency firms charge one hours fee for licking a stamp.</p>
<p>The insolvency practitioners are accountable to whomever or whatever appoints them, but those people/bodies seldom, if ever, hold the practitioner responsible. The reason/mechanics of that are articulately put by KP.</p>
<p>A directive by a Chief Justice that the taxing Masters are to carefully scrutinise the practitioners fees would be a good start. Followed by a taxation of fees-if need be, funded and run by legal aid. The tools to correct the problem are there, but no-one has the both the desire and the ability to use them.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2006/06/19/liquidating-liquidators/#comment-35542</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jun 2006 20:45:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2006/06/19/liquidating-liquidators/#comment-35542</guid>
		<description>In France that is the case, but all part of a much more draconian insolvency system where, among other things, it was revolutionary when the Cour de Cassation decided a couple of years ago that you could sack people in anticipation of financial difficulties and not only after registering as potentially insolvent. 

Obviously, ours works best for large companies with well-heeled creditors.  After all the genius of our law is the efficient harnessing of individual self-interest as a proxy for &#039;fairness&#039;.  In any situation where there is no effectively counter-weighting self-interest, I&#039;d agree that there is a prima facie problem.

One possible cure?  Contingency fees for suing them - but again, the actual amounts are often not going to interest lawyers.  Another would be making the first creditor&#039;s meeting compulsorily appoint a new liquidator in small liquidations, and pay a fixed statutory amount to the provisional liquidator who first takes over.  It loses on efficiency, or so they will say, but maybe it gains a teeny bit on accountability.  

One possible solution that will appeal to your socialism is work out the average return in small (say </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In France that is the case, but all part of a much more draconian insolvency system where, among other things, it was revolutionary when the Cour de Cassation decided a couple of years ago that you could sack people in anticipation of financial difficulties and not only after registering as potentially insolvent. </p>
<p>Obviously, ours works best for large companies with well-heeled creditors.  After all the genius of our law is the efficient harnessing of individual self-interest as a proxy for &#8216;fairness&#8217;.  In any situation where there is no effectively counter-weighting self-interest, I&#8217;d agree that there is a prima facie problem.</p>
<p>One possible cure?  Contingency fees for suing them &#8211; but again, the actual amounts are often not going to interest lawyers.  Another would be making the first creditor&#8217;s meeting compulsorily appoint a new liquidator in small liquidations, and pay a fixed statutory amount to the provisional liquidator who first takes over.  It loses on efficiency, or so they will say, but maybe it gains a teeny bit on accountability.  </p>
<p>One possible solution that will appeal to your socialism is work out the average return in small (say </p>
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		<title>By: Nicholas Gruen</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2006/06/19/liquidating-liquidators/#comment-35418</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicholas Gruen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:45:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2006/06/19/liquidating-liquidators/#comment-35418</guid>
		<description>Thx for the post Ken.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thx for the post Ken.</p>
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		<title>By: meika</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2006/06/19/liquidating-liquidators/#comment-35417</link>
		<dc:creator>meika</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:43:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2006/06/19/liquidating-liquidators/#comment-35417</guid>
		<description>Locally there is a Liquator whose single minded and passionate pursuit of money is such that his own mother is reputed to have said to her daughter, &quot;What have I done to deserve him.?&quot; in tears.

Power corrupts. Absolute power attracts the absolutely corruptible.

In my limted experience they definitely need sorting out, their vague status as officers of the court is not good enough to redeem them currently. Excellent post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Locally there is a Liquator whose single minded and passionate pursuit of money is such that his own mother is reputed to have said to her daughter, &#8220;What have I done to deserve him.?&#8221; in tears.</p>
<p>Power corrupts. Absolute power attracts the absolutely corruptible.</p>
<p>In my limted experience they definitely need sorting out, their vague status as officers of the court is not good enough to redeem them currently. Excellent post.</p>
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		<title>By: qm</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2006/06/19/liquidating-liquidators/#comment-35416</link>
		<dc:creator>qm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jun 2006 12:04:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2006/06/19/liquidating-liquidators/#comment-35416</guid>
		<description>Snap.  Your post summarises my thesis topic (at least in relation to voluntary administrations).  Thanks for the ideas - will attend to stealing them.  Or at least &quot;informing my thinking&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Snap.  Your post summarises my thesis topic (at least in relation to voluntary administrations).  Thanks for the ideas &#8211; will attend to stealing them.  Or at least &#8220;informing my thinking&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Parish</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2006/06/19/liquidating-liquidators/#comment-35414</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Parish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:56:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2006/06/19/liquidating-liquidators/#comment-35414</guid>
		<description>A liquidation is different from an administration/scheme/arrangement (but even there the administrator generally isn&#039;t appointed by ASIC or the government).  There are several different types of liquidation e.g. creditors&#039; winding up; members&#039; voluntary etc.  In an involuntary winding up on a creditor&#039;s notice, generally the creditor who served the notice gets to appoint the liquidator (albeit from a large-ish panel of court-approved liquidators).  Generally the liquidator is not appointed by ASIC or other government body. In a voluntary winding up it may well effectively be the board which appoints the liquidator, although those ones usually aren&#039;t all that problematic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A liquidation is different from an administration/scheme/arrangement (but even there the administrator generally isn&#8217;t appointed by ASIC or the government).  There are several different types of liquidation e.g. creditors&#8217; winding up; members&#8217; voluntary etc.  In an involuntary winding up on a creditor&#8217;s notice, generally the creditor who served the notice gets to appoint the liquidator (albeit from a large-ish panel of court-approved liquidators).  Generally the liquidator is not appointed by ASIC or other government body. In a voluntary winding up it may well effectively be the board which appoints the liquidator, although those ones usually aren&#8217;t all that problematic.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Lloyd</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2006/06/19/liquidating-liquidators/#comment-35413</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Lloyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Jun 2006 09:40:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2006/06/19/liquidating-liquidators/#comment-35413</guid>
		<description>I had always assumed, apparently wrongly, that administrators &lt;i&gt;were&lt;/i&gt; appointed by some government body and were at arms length from the remaining swill in the trough. Silly me! Are you saying they are appointed by the board who sunk the company!?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I had always assumed, apparently wrongly, that administrators <i>were</i> appointed by some government body and were at arms length from the remaining swill in the trough. Silly me! Are you saying they are appointed by the board who sunk the company!?</p>
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