Comments on: A long, long time ago, in an electorate far away…

By: vee

vee — Thu, 11 Jan 2007 00:03:03 +0000

I found this an interesting read on Online Opinion. I’m surprised I missed it here the first time.

I too was waiting for the story that cast the free marketeers as the bad guys for the sake of balance but Don has all ready explained that.

Also I had come to the same conclusion as Schank & Co. That is the reason we tell stories and We need to be able to relate it to a context everyone can understand. I think it is also how we get our mythological heroes like Heracles.

I find David Edding’s Belgarath the Sorcerer with a lot to tell on the state of world affairs today. I’ve read it numerous times over the past decade and get something new out of it every time.

By: James Farrell

James Farrell — Fri, 06 Oct 2006 12:55:58 +0000

I was speechless too, Jen.

By: Rafe Champion

Rafe Champion — Fri, 06 Oct 2006 08:27:22 +0000

Ken, Karl Popper is not God, he got into dead ends, made numerous mistakes and corrected some of them as best he could. The point is that he traced science and literature to the common root of story telling. That can be a commonplace observation or it can be profound, depending on where you go from that point. In his case he elaborated a theory of levels of language to account for the rather significant difference between the story telling of modern scientists and the myths of tribal societies. If this is a topic that interests Don or is important for his research I can help out with references.

Schank and Abelson apparently placed a lot of importance on the learning of autobiographical storytelling by children, incidentally that was an approach to child psychology (study of diaries and life plans) that Charlotte Buhler pursued in the 1930s. She was the wife of Karl Buhler (Popper’s most important teacher) and one of the moving spirits in the Third Force (Humanistic) psychology in the US. http://www.webster.edu/~woolflm/charlottebuhler.html

This may be interesting and helpful for you and Don or it may not. But the reason why Popper’s name comes up in many unexpected contexts is that he had an extraordinary range of interests and he usually had something useful to say, which is more than can be said for most of his critics:)

By: Don Arthur

Don Arthur — Fri, 06 Oct 2006 05:11:57 +0000

Katz – Interesting questions. But I couldn’t help noticing that I wrote “the treat of terrorism”. I’ve fixed it up now.

By: Katz

Katz — Fri, 06 Oct 2006 05:01:39 +0000

Some people act as if we could end the treat of terrorism by launching a well-aimed missile at Osama bin Laden’s underground lair –

By: Gaby

Gaby — Fri, 06 Oct 2006 03:56:57 +0000

Ken, perhaps Wittgenstein defamed Popper by an “imputation” that there aren’t any philosophical problems and therefore no answers?…

I understand that God Karl was fairly touchy about his proper place in the philosophical pantheon (or should that be “symposium”? I’m thinking of Raphael’s wonderful painting).

By: Ken Parish

Ken Parish — Fri, 06 Oct 2006 01:02:52 +0000

If we all unanimously sign a pledge swearing that we accept that Karl Popper is God, would Rafe stop mentioning him in every comment thread? I’m waiting with breathless anticipation to see how Rafe manages to work old Karl into my thread on Joanne Lees.

By: Don Arthur

Don Arthur — Fri, 06 Oct 2006 00:40:46 +0000

Scott – Of course you’re right “it isn’t just free-marketers who use storytelling in this way”. The post reflects the books I’ve been reading recently.

Orwell and Bellamy were great leftist storytellers and I thought it was interesting that Friedman their books among his ‘top tomes’.

It’s easy to see how Marxism lends itself to the storytelling form — the hero can be an entire class. One of the things I find interesting is the way that some radical storytellers personify abstractions like globalization and neoliberalism and use them as villains.

Rafe – That wasn’t a real question was it?

By: jen

jen — Thu, 05 Oct 2006 23:39:00 +0000

By: Rafe Champion

Rafe Champion — Thu, 05 Oct 2006 21:22:59 +0000

Did Schank and Abelson acknowledge Popper’s very old story that all of science grew out of storytelling and mythmaking, by adding on criticism according to the criteria of truth and logical consistency?

By: Andrew Norton

Andrew Norton — Thu, 05 Oct 2006 20:57:04 +0000

And one reason governments often disappoint their most partisan supporters is that they are forced to deal with facts and not just stories.

By: Scott Wickstein

Scott Wickstein — Thu, 05 Oct 2006 19:51:30 +0000

Be fair, Don, it isn’t just free-marketers who use storytelling in this way. The entire ‘left’ project since 1789 can be seen in this way with the heroic ‘working class heroes’ fighting the evil capitalists/reactionaries/monarchists etc…