Yeah skeptical lawyer. I’m hooked as well. I’ve been to paradise but I haven’t been to me. Can you show me the way?

In case it wasn’t obvious from my previous post, I was referring to the Beatles part of the discussion!!!

Regards,

Damien.

If the recent stories in the press about what’s taught in High School English these days are true, then you both may have just suggested a potential High school English Assignment!!!

Regards,

Damien.

Yes I agree. I was being flippant. I think teasing out the nuances of the main positions of the contemporary democratic political lanscape, mostly from an Australian perspective, is a worthwhile exercise, and personalising it to specific local players is an entertaining conceit to get us there.

Imagine no possessions
I wonder if you can
No need for greed or hunger
A brotherhood of man
Imagine all the people
Sharing all the world…

Let me tell you how it will be,
There’s one for you, nineteen for me,
‘Cos I’m the Taxman,
Yeah, I’m the Taxman.
Should five per cent appear too small,
Be thankful I don’t take it all,
‘Cos I’m the Taxman,
Yeah, I’m the Taxman.
If you drive a car, I’ll tax the street,
If you try to sit, I’ll tax your seat,
If you get too cold, I’ll tax the heat,
If you take a walk, I’ll tax your feet.

I really hate Libertarianism. However I can’t see a superior set of belief systems.

What could be considered anything close to the wonderful view that an indivisual is sovereign? Understanding the real meaning of this concept places humnity at the highest point on the hill.

And now, the end is near;
And so I face the final curtain.
My friend, Ill say it clear,
Ill state my case, of which Im certain.

Ive lived a life thats full.
Ive traveled each and evry highway;
And more, much more than this,
I did it my way.

Regrets, Ive had a few;
But then again, too few to mention.
I did what I had to do
And saw it through without exemption.

I planned each charted course;
Each careful step along the byway,
But more, much more than this,
I did it my way.

Yes, there were times, Im sure you knew
When I bit off more than I could chew.
But through it all, when there was doubt,
I ate it up and spit it out.
I faced it all and I stood tall;
And did it my way.

Ive loved, Ive laughed and cried.
Ive had my fill; my share of losing.
And now, as tears subside,
I find it all so amusing.

To think I did all that;
And may I say – not in a shy way,
No, oh no not me,
I did it my way.

For what is a man, what has he got?
If not himself, then he has naught.
To say the things he truly feels;
And not the words of one who kneels.
The record shows I took the blows -
And did it my way!

Whether I’m right or whether I’m wrong
Whether I find a place in this world or never belong
I gotta be me, I’ve gotta be me
What else can I be but what I am

I want to live, not merely survive
And I won’t give up this dream
Of life that keeps me alive
I gotta be me, I gotta be me
The dream that I see makes me what I am

That far-away prize, a world of success
Is waiting for me if I heed the call
I won’t settle down, won’t settle for less
As long as there’s a chance that I can have it all

I’ll go it alone, that’s how it must be
I can’t be right for somebody else
If I’m not right for me
I gotta be free, I’ve gotta be free
Daring to try, to do it or die
I’ve gotta be me

I’ll go it alone, that’s how it must be
I can’t be right for somebody else
If I’m not right for me
I gotta be free, I just gotta be free
Daring to try, to do it or die
I gotta be me

I’m hooked. I really, really want you to go on. How does libertarianism allow you to be you?

I also find I need libertarian/classical liberal ideas on a personal level: they’re the only ideas that allow me to be me.

philosphy: rights-based v utilitarians
how radical: moderate v minarchists v anarchists
foreign policy: peacemonger v warnick

Calling somebody non-libertarian because they are minarchist (Rafe) or utilitarian (Andrew) or because of their foreign policy is missing the point.

I started the Australian Libertarian Society (ALS) and the LDP and I am a utilitarian libertarian. I also sometimes refer to myself as a “classical liberal” or more likely a “liberal democrat”. Indeed — that was the name I gave Australia’s libertarian political party!

Both Friedman and Hayek said they preferred to be called liberals (in the classical sense) but they both admitted that in modern language they are libertarians. They were both utilitarians. Indeed, I would say that most Australian libertarians are utilitarians (probably because many of them are economists).

Further, there have been classical liberals that promoted “rights-based” classical liberalism, so it is silly to define classical liberal as only a utilitarian.

I also think Rafe’s contribution confuses the issue. Rafe seems to suggest that a libertarian must be an anarchist… but once again there is a long-standing debate within libertarian circles between “minarchists” (small govt) and “anarchists” (no govt).

Rafe’s contribution causes even more confusion when you recognise that today’s best promoter of anarcho-capitalism (David Friedman, Milton’s son) is actually a utilitarian, not a rights-based philosopher!

Of course, there’s nothing wrong with Andrew calling himself a “classical liberal”, but that doesn’t stop him from being a libertarian. Likewise, some people prefer to call themselves “objectivists” but their politics also falls within the libertarian tent.

If somebody really wanted to make a distinction between “classical liberal” and “libertarian” it is probably fair to note that “classical liberals” are normally on the moderate corner of the libertarian circle (sic), but that doesn’t stop them from being libertarian.

It’s enough for me. After all the LDP is not just a “movement”, it is a political party. We want people to vote for us. Judging by Andrew’s beliefs he would vote for us were he not already a member of a rival party.

I think it’s fair to say that most people vote according to Policy rather than Principles. I don’t care if the Liberal party claims to believe in individual liberties (which they do claim), if another party is proposing more liberal policies then I will vote for them even if they claim to believe in fairies.

I personally don’t care if you believe in Liberty for moral, pragmatic or any other reason. I don’t care if aliens came down and told you that you should believe in it. As long as you do.

I describe myself as a Libertarian primarily because it is a concise term that describes most of my political beliefs, and as such saves my fingers from excessive typing.

I haven’t read Popper or Mises or whoever else and I probably never will. I came to my beliefs basically by thinking about everyday life and how it could be better. So in that sense I guess I’m more like Jason Soon than like John Humphreys, but since we agree on most policy decisions anyway it’s just easier to say we are both Libertarians.

When the day comes that there are 3 different Libertarian parties competing for votes in an Australian election then the question would become more important. But the fact is that now there is only 1 party that is remotely Libertarian/Classical Liberal/Whatever you want to call it, and that is the LDP.