On this topic, clearly some men do need training in learning how to cope with babies. The various murders seem to have predictable factors, and clearly our existing systems are not reaching or not properly reaching those people.

Nowhere have I excused the bashing or killing of babies.

Walked like an excuse, talked like an excuse – but I am glad you don’t. I do accept that it is quite different to identify a structural cause, which I am happy to take you as doing. I am sorry for the offence mistakenly given.

I can see from your comments that are childless and unmarried

I once said this to someone on a blog too – I felt as stupid as you should shortly after! I am glad to be able to say that I am confident that this would be greatly saddening for my wife and two children. I am equally glad to say that my comment suggesting that men did get some of what you were recommending was based on having one child in Victoria’s public health system which I, as a not-inclined-to-bashing-my-baby-average-kinda-guy, found perfectly accessable and relevant. A propos, are the full-page ‘never shake a baby’ (in about 36 pitch font) ads included in the welcome packs ‘oriented to men’, or merely insufficiently sensitive to the illiterate sector?

And to take up what I suspect is N Gruen’s general point, what about the most elementary dose of common sense and self-restraint? Do you really mean that men need training to cope with an incessantly crying baby??

Third, these types of bashings and murders would not be affected by increased penalties, because they occur when men lose control.

Hey Mr Death Penalty, I didn’t say anything about increased sentences for deterrence, but for punishment. I subscribe to the ‘people are not so stupid as that’ theory which gives deterrence some credence – ie in a world were losing control gets you 10 years of jail, less people lose control.

Second, you should refrain from commenting on subjects you don’t understand. Those with parenting experience will recognise the points about the learning involved in working with babies, and know about the incredibly valuable networks of care available to women (and men, but not oriented to men.) I can see from your comments that are childless and unmarried.

Third, these types of bashings and murders would not be affected by increased penalties, because they occur when men lose control. So anyone who genuinely cares about children and babies would look for solutions that protect them.

Am I the only one who finds this an incredibly lame excuse?

Ooops, we already do tell any expecting dads that are listening. Maybe something else is needed.

Our society can rightly be proud of the networks of help provided to mothers and intending mothers, starting with birth preparation classes and continuing through baby and toddler checks ups and play groups.

We should extend those networks, probably in a different form, so that all intending fathers also get basic advice on what to expect with babies and toddlers. I think that would prevent a lot of these awful murders.

Kill the an unborn baby becaue it is your ‘choice’ and no-one hears a word