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	<title>Comments on: An arsehole but a talented one</title>
	<atom:link href="http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/02/14/an-arsehole-but-a-talented-one/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/02/14/an-arsehole-but-a-talented-one/</link>
	<description>Fearlessly dispensing political, legal and economic analysis (and some whimsy) since 2002</description>
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		<title>By: Nicholas Gruen</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/02/14/an-arsehole-but-a-talented-one/#comment-116085</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicholas Gruen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Apr 2007 14:41:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2007/02/14/an-arsehole-but-a-talented-one/#comment-116085</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve just read Jack Marx&#039;s &lt;a href=&quot;http://blogs.theage.com.au/thedailytruth/archives/2006/09/crocodile_tears.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;column (post?) on Steve Irwin&lt;/a&gt;.  It&#039;s good - and fresher than most of the columns you read.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve just read Jack Marx&#8217;s <a href="http://blogs.theage.com.au/thedailytruth/archives/2006/09/crocodile_tears.html">column (post?) on Steve Irwin</a>.  It&#8217;s good &#8211; and fresher than most of the columns you read.</p>
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		<title>By: Caitlin</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/02/14/an-arsehole-but-a-talented-one/#comment-116013</link>
		<dc:creator>Caitlin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 21 Apr 2007 12:00:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2007/02/14/an-arsehole-but-a-talented-one/#comment-116013</guid>
		<description>I agree with some of the other comments - I think the article was great. The piece is clearly  entirely different to most tabloid journalism regarding celebrity and to me (someone who never concerns herself with that kind of thing) it was an interesting look at the dynamics of a relationship that plays out in the midst of an enormous difference in wealth, fame and maybe power. In some of Marx&#039;s articles I really notice the clever writing - but I just read this particular article interested in the content, never really noticing the writing, which in this case I think is a good thing. I can&#039;t really see anything unethical about it either, I guess because I am generally in favour information being free...  

And finally, regarding whether or not we accept the &quot;seduction&quot; premise, well - so what? The piece is basically a personal essay - of course it&#039;s simply the author&#039;s take on the situation. It doesn&#039;t claim to be anything else. The whole style of the article is so clearly personal - it&#039;s hardly as though Marx is trying to pass himself off as anything but subjective. It&#039;s an article, something put into the public arena for people to interpret and evaluate as they will. Marx isn&#039;t, by publishing his take on the situation, somehow forcing you to accept it at face-value as a &quot;bona fide&quot;, objective tale.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with some of the other comments &#8211; I think the article was great. The piece is clearly  entirely different to most tabloid journalism regarding celebrity and to me (someone who never concerns herself with that kind of thing) it was an interesting look at the dynamics of a relationship that plays out in the midst of an enormous difference in wealth, fame and maybe power. In some of Marx&#8217;s articles I really notice the clever writing &#8211; but I just read this particular article interested in the content, never really noticing the writing, which in this case I think is a good thing. I can&#8217;t really see anything unethical about it either, I guess because I am generally in favour information being free&#8230;  </p>
<p>And finally, regarding whether or not we accept the &#8220;seduction&#8221; premise, well &#8211; so what? The piece is basically a personal essay &#8211; of course it&#8217;s simply the author&#8217;s take on the situation. It doesn&#8217;t claim to be anything else. The whole style of the article is so clearly personal &#8211; it&#8217;s hardly as though Marx is trying to pass himself off as anything but subjective. It&#8217;s an article, something put into the public arena for people to interpret and evaluate as they will. Marx isn&#8217;t, by publishing his take on the situation, somehow forcing you to accept it at face-value as a &#8220;bona fide&#8221;, objective tale.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Parish</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/02/14/an-arsehole-but-a-talented-one/#comment-94776</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Parish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Feb 2007 01:29:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2007/02/14/an-arsehole-but-a-talented-one/#comment-94776</guid>
		<description>I didn&#039;t see Marx&#039;s piece on Irwin.  It was Geoff Honnor who raised that example of his writing.  However, I generally don&#039;t object to boots-and-all appraisals of just-deceased public figures.  Given the combination of our defamation laws and the pragmatic reality that most deceased public figures don&#039;t remain newsworthy for very long, the obituary analysis may be just about the only time the public record can be set straight in relation to controversial behaviour that couldn&#039;t be freely discussed during the perpetrator&#039;s lifetime.  I&#039;m not sure that&#039;s true of Irwin, but it has certainly been true of various other figures with a propensity to sue if you told the truth about them while they were alive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t see Marx&#8217;s piece on Irwin.  It was Geoff Honnor who raised that example of his writing.  However, I generally don&#8217;t object to boots-and-all appraisals of just-deceased public figures.  Given the combination of our defamation laws and the pragmatic reality that most deceased public figures don&#8217;t remain newsworthy for very long, the obituary analysis may be just about the only time the public record can be set straight in relation to controversial behaviour that couldn&#8217;t be freely discussed during the perpetrator&#8217;s lifetime.  I&#8217;m not sure that&#8217;s true of Irwin, but it has certainly been true of various other figures with a propensity to sue if you told the truth about them while they were alive.</p>
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		<title>By: James Farrell</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/02/14/an-arsehole-but-a-talented-one/#comment-94770</link>
		<dc:creator>James Farrell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Feb 2007 01:20:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2007/02/14/an-arsehole-but-a-talented-one/#comment-94770</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the clarification, Ken.

In the meantime I read Marx on Steve Irwin. That seemed fair enough too, but it would have been better to hold off for a month or two rather than say it in the middle of the funeral.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the clarification, Ken.</p>
<p>In the meantime I read Marx on Steve Irwin. That seemed fair enough too, but it would have been better to hold off for a month or two rather than say it in the middle of the funeral.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Parish</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/02/14/an-arsehole-but-a-talented-one/#comment-94732</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Parish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Feb 2007 00:04:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2007/02/14/an-arsehole-but-a-talented-one/#comment-94732</guid>
		<description>James

I think it&#039;s fair comment that my attitude to Marx&#039;s article on Russell Crowe is coloured by my reaction to his earlier book on Stevie Wright, which was radically unethical in my view.

The Crowe situation is more ambiguous, in that (a) he is a powerful current public figure (unlike the pathetic Wright, who simply wasn&#039;t fair game), isn&#039;t drug-addled as far as we know, and therefore presumably knew what he was doing in dealing with a journalist like Marx; (b) as you say, at least on Marx&#039;s account, Crowe didn&#039;t (explicitly at least) require any undertaking of confidentiality from Marx.  

The key to our differing reactions is your statement &quot;If you take Marx</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James</p>
<p>I think it&#8217;s fair comment that my attitude to Marx&#8217;s article on Russell Crowe is coloured by my reaction to his earlier book on Stevie Wright, which was radically unethical in my view.</p>
<p>The Crowe situation is more ambiguous, in that (a) he is a powerful current public figure (unlike the pathetic Wright, who simply wasn&#8217;t fair game), isn&#8217;t drug-addled as far as we know, and therefore presumably knew what he was doing in dealing with a journalist like Marx; (b) as you say, at least on Marx&#8217;s account, Crowe didn&#8217;t (explicitly at least) require any undertaking of confidentiality from Marx.  </p>
<p>The key to our differing reactions is your statement &#8220;If you take Marx</p>
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		<title>By: James Farrell</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/02/14/an-arsehole-but-a-talented-one/#comment-94717</link>
		<dc:creator>James Farrell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Feb 2007 23:24:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2007/02/14/an-arsehole-but-a-talented-one/#comment-94717</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;...even a moment</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>&#8230;even a moment</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Geoff Honnor</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/02/14/an-arsehole-but-a-talented-one/#comment-94687</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff Honnor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Feb 2007 21:33:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2007/02/14/an-arsehole-but-a-talented-one/#comment-94687</guid>
		<description>&quot;rather of Henry Lawson a century later and not so clear&quot;

Good point, David. Henry would definitely have identified with the Marx persona propensity for [too obviously] hanging out in late night bars on the Boulevard of Broken Dreams...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;rather of Henry Lawson a century later and not so clear&#8221;</p>
<p>Good point, David. Henry would definitely have identified with the Marx persona propensity for [too obviously] hanging out in late night bars on the Boulevard of Broken Dreams&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: david tiley</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/02/14/an-arsehole-but-a-talented-one/#comment-94594</link>
		<dc:creator>david tiley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Feb 2007 13:40:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2007/02/14/an-arsehole-but-a-talented-one/#comment-94594</guid>
		<description>For me, those pieces don&#039;t have the feel of verisimilitude, rather of Henry Lawson a century later and not so clear.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For me, those pieces don&#8217;t have the feel of verisimilitude, rather of Henry Lawson a century later and not so clear.</p>
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		<title>By: Nicholas Gruen</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/02/14/an-arsehole-but-a-talented-one/#comment-94550</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicholas Gruen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Feb 2007 11:03:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2007/02/14/an-arsehole-but-a-talented-one/#comment-94550</guid>
		<description>I agree with Geoff.  I don&#039;t think I said I had a high opinion of &lt;em&gt;him &lt;/em&gt;- so much as some of the articles I read - as for him, rather the opposite - though that&#039;s a compliment to his writing which takes some of its force from his transparency about his own transgressions.

I also agree Ken that the Crowe piece could have done with a fairly strong edit job, but I still found it an interesting read - and others it appears couldn&#039;t get enough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Geoff.  I don&#8217;t think I said I had a high opinion of <em>him </em>- so much as some of the articles I read &#8211; as for him, rather the opposite &#8211; though that&#8217;s a compliment to his writing which takes some of its force from his transparency about his own transgressions.</p>
<p>I also agree Ken that the Crowe piece could have done with a fairly strong edit job, but I still found it an interesting read &#8211; and others it appears couldn&#8217;t get enough.</p>
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		<title>By: Geoff Honnor</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/02/14/an-arsehole-but-a-talented-one/#comment-94447</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff Honnor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Feb 2007 04:37:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2007/02/14/an-arsehole-but-a-talented-one/#comment-94447</guid>
		<description>Well, apart from a tendency to bang on the, &quot;fedora tipped back in an emptyish late night bar while a faded torch singer sings &quot;One For My Baby and One More For The Road &quot; with all the pain of the world in her every note, &quot; preferred persona a bit much, I like him.  

He&#039;s a blindingly good writer - without peer in his specialist niche - and I thought his piece on Crowe was very deserving of the Walkley. It was an interesting insight into Crowe (whose almost sociopathic self-importance wasn&#039;t really news). More importantly, it was an interesting insight into the seduction of those who would seek to be &quot;objective&quot; in interpreting the star phenomenon. That this involved Marx revealing that he could be just as grovelling as the next PR flack was, I thought, quite gutsy and it made for a fascinating read. 

I remember the piece on Stevie Wright but I guess I have a different take on it than you do, Ken.

His Valentine&#039;s Day piece is bloody beautiful. 

He was though - I concede -  a total arsehole about poor Steve Irwin :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, apart from a tendency to bang on the, &#8220;fedora tipped back in an emptyish late night bar while a faded torch singer sings &#8220;One For My Baby and One More For The Road &#8221; with all the pain of the world in her every note, &#8221; preferred persona a bit much, I like him.  </p>
<p>He&#8217;s a blindingly good writer &#8211; without peer in his specialist niche &#8211; and I thought his piece on Crowe was very deserving of the Walkley. It was an interesting insight into Crowe (whose almost sociopathic self-importance wasn&#8217;t really news). More importantly, it was an interesting insight into the seduction of those who would seek to be &#8220;objective&#8221; in interpreting the star phenomenon. That this involved Marx revealing that he could be just as grovelling as the next PR flack was, I thought, quite gutsy and it made for a fascinating read. </p>
<p>I remember the piece on Stevie Wright but I guess I have a different take on it than you do, Ken.</p>
<p>His Valentine&#8217;s Day piece is bloody beautiful. </p>
<p>He was though &#8211; I concede &#8211;  a total arsehole about poor Steve Irwin :)</p>
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		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/02/14/an-arsehole-but-a-talented-one/#comment-94413</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Feb 2007 02:24:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2007/02/14/an-arsehole-but-a-talented-one/#comment-94413</guid>
		<description>Snide and silly works for me Ken. Just as calling Marx a cowardly, sleazy, unethical, undisciplined, manipulative, muckraker works for you Ken. Something that took up half of your post. Now that&#039;s a hit and run piece that damns with faint praise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Snide and silly works for me Ken. Just as calling Marx a cowardly, sleazy, unethical, undisciplined, manipulative, muckraker works for you Ken. Something that took up half of your post. Now that&#8217;s a hit and run piece that damns with faint praise.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Parish</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/02/14/an-arsehole-but-a-talented-one/#comment-94402</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Parish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Feb 2007 01:52:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2007/02/14/an-arsehole-but-a-talented-one/#comment-94402</guid>
		<description>Err, Phil, every blogger (including you) is by definition a self-appointed judge of whoever or whatever they write about.  Do you actually have a coherent contribution to make, or do you prefer snide, silly hit-and-run remarks?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Err, Phil, every blogger (including you) is by definition a self-appointed judge of whoever or whatever they write about.  Do you actually have a coherent contribution to make, or do you prefer snide, silly hit-and-run remarks?</p>
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		<title>By: Phil</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/02/14/an-arsehole-but-a-talented-one/#comment-94399</link>
		<dc:creator>Phil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Feb 2007 01:38:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2007/02/14/an-arsehole-but-a-talented-one/#comment-94399</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;However, believe it or not, I didn</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>However, believe it or not, I didn</p></blockquote>
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