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	<title>Comments on: Kicking against the Prix</title>
	<atom:link href="http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/03/12/kicking-against-the-prix/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/03/12/kicking-against-the-prix/</link>
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	<pubDate>Fri, 21 Nov 2008 11:50:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: observa</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/03/12/kicking-against-the-prix/#comment-106427</link>
		<dc:creator>observa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Mar 2007 14:06:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2007/03/12/kicking-against-the-prix/#comment-106427</guid>
		<description>And now all we need do to make the victory complete, is get the AFL GF shifted each year to the home State of the highest qualifier. They could then set up bigscreens at the MCG, playing VFL GF replays for all the Vics suffering withdrawal symptoms.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And now all we need do to make the victory complete, is get the AFL GF shifted each year to the home State of the highest qualifier. They could then set up bigscreens at the MCG, playing VFL GF replays for all the Vics suffering withdrawal symptoms.</p>
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		<title>By: Rex</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/03/12/kicking-against-the-prix/#comment-106388</link>
		<dc:creator>Rex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Mar 2007 09:26:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2007/03/12/kicking-against-the-prix/#comment-106388</guid>
		<description>I can't comment on the reports Robert because I haven't seen them,  but the fact that there are all these inconclusive claims of economic benefits,  yet the public are not allowed to see the actual costs or T&#38;C's  points only one way. It's a dud.

There are winners of course. The Crown Casino, Fosters, The Daily Planet, Lygon St. - But overall its a big loser.

In my view the businesses that want it to stay should be the ones to subsidise it.  Then we'd start to see some real hard nosed financial calculations being done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can&#8217;t comment on the reports Robert because I haven&#8217;t seen them,  but the fact that there are all these inconclusive claims of economic benefits,  yet the public are not allowed to see the actual costs or T&amp;C&#8217;s  points only one way. It&#8217;s a dud.</p>
<p>There are winners of course. The Crown Casino, Fosters, The Daily Planet, Lygon St. - But overall its a big loser.</p>
<p>In my view the businesses that want it to stay should be the ones to subsidise it.  Then we&#8217;d start to see some real hard nosed financial calculations being done.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Braby</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/03/12/kicking-against-the-prix/#comment-106348</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Braby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Mar 2007 03:32:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2007/03/12/kicking-against-the-prix/#comment-106348</guid>
		<description>The Melbourne G.P. is one of the great con. tricks of Australian politics. In 11 years it has accumulated $86m. of losses and Victorian taxpayers have been gullible enough to swallow them.

Let me put forward a hypothesis, as yet unproven, but I  leave you to assess its plausibility.

1. Some years ago, G.P. boss Bernie Ecclestone donated one mill. pounds (I think) to the British Labour party to shore up the G.P. there, so itâ€™s a fair bet he is doing the same here.
2. If so, public revelation of such would be politically embarrassing for the Vic. Govt., as it was to the Blair Govt. which was forced to refund the money.  So the govt. will not release details of the contract with Ecclestone on grounds of confidentiality.
3. To retain public support for the race, the govt. repeatedly quotes economic reports claiming enormous economic benefits for Victoria.

Economic consultant NIEIR examined the economic impact of the 1996, 2000 and 2005 events; coming up with estimated benefits of $96m., $131m amd $175m. respectively.  But these figures are meaningless.  Any economic activity creates benefits, whether it be a sausage factory or trip to the dentist.  That is no case for government subsidisation. 
 
Subsidisation is only justified if the event produces â€˜positive externalitiesâ€™, i.e. social benefits over and above those accruing to the consumers.  But if it produces â€˜negative externalitiesâ€™, i.e. social costs, it should be taxed, banned or otherwise discouraged. 

Supporters of the race argue there are social benefits in the form of international exposure of Melbourne (presumably for tourism) and excitement for the city. 

Opponents argue there are social costs in the form of environmental damage to Albert Park, disruption to other (passive) uses of the park, noise, pollution (and attendant health risks), traffic disruption, adverse effects on adjacent businesses, etc.  They are also not impressed with the tourist argument â€“ on the grounds that Melbourne is already over-populated.

In my judgement, the opponents win hands down; net externalites are negative.  Add to these the growing losses and the G.P. is a clear economic loser and should be scrubbed.

There has also been severe criticism of the methodology used in the analysis of the G.P. (and also of other special events).  Such analysis has to make an assumption as to whether the event increases aggregate expenditure or has no effect on expenditure.  

If the latter, allowance has to be made for â€˜opportunity costsâ€™, i.e. alternative uses of the resources employed in the event, and this is often omitted.  

If the former (i.e. increases aggregate expenditure) a Keynesian income-generation model is usually used.  This assumes that the resulting increase in income and employment is good for the economy.  But this is only true if the economy is suffering from demand-deficiency, as in a recession.  If the economy is experiencing excess demand, any extra spending generated by the event will add to inflation and be bad for the economy.  This was the case in 2000, when the Reserve Bank increased interest rates five times.  Yet the report claimed economic benefits of $131m!  In my book these were disbenefits.

I have not read the 1996 or 2005 reports so cannot comment on them, except to suggest that Keynesian methodology is completely irrelevant for the analysis of special events, except where a confined regional impact is targeted, (e.g. Bathurst or Phillip Island).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Melbourne G.P. is one of the great con. tricks of Australian politics. In 11 years it has accumulated $86m. of losses and Victorian taxpayers have been gullible enough to swallow them.</p>
<p>Let me put forward a hypothesis, as yet unproven, but I  leave you to assess its plausibility.</p>
<p>1. Some years ago, G.P. boss Bernie Ecclestone donated one mill. pounds (I think) to the British Labour party to shore up the G.P. there, so itâ€™s a fair bet he is doing the same here.<br />
2. If so, public revelation of such would be politically embarrassing for the Vic. Govt., as it was to the Blair Govt. which was forced to refund the money.  So the govt. will not release details of the contract with Ecclestone on grounds of confidentiality.<br />
3. To retain public support for the race, the govt. repeatedly quotes economic reports claiming enormous economic benefits for Victoria.</p>
<p>Economic consultant NIEIR examined the economic impact of the 1996, 2000 and 2005 events; coming up with estimated benefits of $96m., $131m amd $175m. respectively.  But these figures are meaningless.  Any economic activity creates benefits, whether it be a sausage factory or trip to the dentist.  That is no case for government subsidisation. </p>
<p>Subsidisation is only justified if the event produces â€˜positive externalitiesâ€™, i.e. social benefits over and above those accruing to the consumers.  But if it produces â€˜negative externalitiesâ€™, i.e. social costs, it should be taxed, banned or otherwise discouraged. </p>
<p>Supporters of the race argue there are social benefits in the form of international exposure of Melbourne (presumably for tourism) and excitement for the city. </p>
<p>Opponents argue there are social costs in the form of environmental damage to Albert Park, disruption to other (passive) uses of the park, noise, pollution (and attendant health risks), traffic disruption, adverse effects on adjacent businesses, etc.  They are also not impressed with the tourist argument â€“ on the grounds that Melbourne is already over-populated.</p>
<p>In my judgement, the opponents win hands down; net externalites are negative.  Add to these the growing losses and the G.P. is a clear economic loser and should be scrubbed.</p>
<p>There has also been severe criticism of the methodology used in the analysis of the G.P. (and also of other special events).  Such analysis has to make an assumption as to whether the event increases aggregate expenditure or has no effect on expenditure.  </p>
<p>If the latter, allowance has to be made for â€˜opportunity costsâ€™, i.e. alternative uses of the resources employed in the event, and this is often omitted.  </p>
<p>If the former (i.e. increases aggregate expenditure) a Keynesian income-generation model is usually used.  This assumes that the resulting increase in income and employment is good for the economy.  But this is only true if the economy is suffering from demand-deficiency, as in a recession.  If the economy is experiencing excess demand, any extra spending generated by the event will add to inflation and be bad for the economy.  This was the case in 2000, when the Reserve Bank increased interest rates five times.  Yet the report claimed economic benefits of $131m!  In my book these were disbenefits.</p>
<p>I have not read the 1996 or 2005 reports so cannot comment on them, except to suggest that Keynesian methodology is completely irrelevant for the analysis of special events, except where a confined regional impact is targeted, (e.g. Bathurst or Phillip Island).</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/03/12/kicking-against-the-prix/#comment-106220</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Mar 2007 06:22:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2007/03/12/kicking-against-the-prix/#comment-106220</guid>
		<description>Great place, Rex.  I remember it well.  And you're not wrong; any place which stops trams in the middle of the road so drivers can clean up alighters gets my vote for sporting thrillcentre.  No idea why Melbourne needed F1 with that going on!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great place, Rex.  I remember it well.  And you&#8217;re not wrong; any place which stops trams in the middle of the road so drivers can clean up alighters gets my vote for sporting thrillcentre.  No idea why Melbourne needed F1 with that going on!</p>
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		<title>By: Rex</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/03/12/kicking-against-the-prix/#comment-106217</link>
		<dc:creator>Rex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Mar 2007 06:08:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2007/03/12/kicking-against-the-prix/#comment-106217</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Melbourne? It still exists?&lt;/i&gt;

It's life Robert, but not as we know it!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Melbourne? It still exists?</i></p>
<p>It&#8217;s life Robert, but not as we know it!</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/03/12/kicking-against-the-prix/#comment-106196</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Mar 2007 03:05:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2007/03/12/kicking-against-the-prix/#comment-106196</guid>
		<description>Melbourne?  It still exists?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Melbourne?  It still exists?</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Lovell</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/03/12/kicking-against-the-prix/#comment-106173</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Lovell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2007 22:15:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2007/03/12/kicking-against-the-prix/#comment-106173</guid>
		<description>Would you like the Gold Coast Indy to tart it up a bit? You could run a double-header over two weekends and get $200 million worth of free international publicity. And the Indy girls' tans aren't even fake :-).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Would you like the Gold Coast Indy to tart it up a bit? You could run a double-header over two weekends and get $200 million worth of free international publicity. And the Indy girls&#8217; tans aren&#8217;t even fake :-).</p>
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		<title>By: Rex</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/03/12/kicking-against-the-prix/#comment-106171</link>
		<dc:creator>Rex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2007 21:59:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2007/03/12/kicking-against-the-prix/#comment-106171</guid>
		<description>That's right FX. Sometimes you've got to run with the 'vibe of the thing''</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s right FX. Sometimes you&#8217;ve got to run with the &#8216;vibe of the thing&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Francis X Holden</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/03/12/kicking-against-the-prix/#comment-106107</link>
		<dc:creator>Francis X Holden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2007 11:06:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2007/03/12/kicking-against-the-prix/#comment-106107</guid>
		<description>Tony T - You've just shown up how out of touch you are. At least Rex doesn' have to stoop to checking facts to make an argument.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tony T - You&#8217;ve just shown up how out of touch you are. At least Rex doesn&#8217; have to stoop to checking facts to make an argument.</p>
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		<title>By: Rex</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/03/12/kicking-against-the-prix/#comment-106092</link>
		<dc:creator>Rex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2007 09:00:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2007/03/12/kicking-against-the-prix/#comment-106092</guid>
		<description>Tony.  You and I both know these complicated dates thingies, are lost on the average Melbournian.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tony.  You and I both know these complicated dates thingies, are lost on the average Melbournian.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony.T</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/03/12/kicking-against-the-prix/#comment-106090</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony.T</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2007 08:50:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2007/03/12/kicking-against-the-prix/#comment-106090</guid>
		<description>Just to clear up any misconceptions Rex may have given about the who, what and when of Melbourne and the Olympics: Melbourne lost their bid for the 1996 Olympics in 1990; Kennett was elected in 1992; Melbourne didn't bid when Sydney won the 2000 Olympics in 1993.

And &lt;em&gt;BALLS!&lt;/em&gt; to motor racing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to clear up any misconceptions Rex may have given about the who, what and when of Melbourne and the Olympics: Melbourne lost their bid for the 1996 Olympics in 1990; Kennett was elected in 1992; Melbourne didn&#8217;t bid when Sydney won the 2000 Olympics in 1993.</p>
<p>And <em>BALLS!</em> to motor racing.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave from Albury</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/03/12/kicking-against-the-prix/#comment-106083</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave from Albury</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2007 07:55:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2007/03/12/kicking-against-the-prix/#comment-106083</guid>
		<description>As someone who doesn't pay taxes or receive services in Victoria, let me say thanks for bringing the GP closer than Adelaide.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As someone who doesn&#8217;t pay taxes or receive services in Victoria, let me say thanks for bringing the GP closer than Adelaide.</p>
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		<title>By: Stationary Orbit &#187; Grand Pricks</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/03/12/kicking-against-the-prix/#comment-106082</link>
		<dc:creator>Stationary Orbit &#187; Grand Pricks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2007 07:54:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2007/03/12/kicking-against-the-prix/#comment-106082</guid>
		<description>[...] Well It is time for the Grand Pricks to return to Melbourne, a time when the city is crowded with drunk Germans and the type of people who pay to travel across the world or across the country to see some weird looking motor cars go round and round and round. Over at Club Troppo Rex Ringschott takes a go at the GP: Club Troppo Â» Kicking against the Prix. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Well It is time for the Grand Pricks to return to Melbourne, a time when the city is crowded with drunk Germans and the type of people who pay to travel across the world or across the country to see some weird looking motor cars go round and round and round. Over at Club Troppo Rex Ringschott takes a go at the GP: Club Troppo Â» Kicking against the Prix. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Pavlov's Cat</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/03/12/kicking-against-the-prix/#comment-106070</link>
		<dc:creator>Pavlov's Cat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Mar 2007 06:42:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.clubtroppo.com.au/2007/03/12/kicking-against-the-prix/#comment-106070</guid>
		<description>Sorry to rub it in, Rex, but we don't want it back. I'm afraid the rev-head event that we in Adders snared to replace the Grand Prix after you Victorian sods pinched it, namely the Clipsal 500, is getting bigger and better and more lucrative every year.

Heh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry to rub it in, Rex, but we don&#8217;t want it back. I&#8217;m afraid the rev-head event that we in Adders snared to replace the Grand Prix after you Victorian sods pinched it, namely the Clipsal 500, is getting bigger and better and more lucrative every year.</p>
<p>Heh.</p>
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