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	<title>Comments on: Death of a fatally flawed giant</title>
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	<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/09/21/death-of-a-fatally-flawed-giant/</link>
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		<title>By: Jc</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/09/21/death-of-a-fatally-flawed-giant/#comment-187985</link>
		<dc:creator>Jc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Sep 2007 10:29:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/09/21/death-of-a-fatally-flawed-giant/#comment-187985</guid>
		<description>EP

 Homer is now going to change his moniker to &quot;EP is alive and kicking&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>EP</p>
<p> Homer is now going to change his moniker to &#8220;EP is alive and kicking&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Bring Back CL's blog</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/09/21/death-of-a-fatally-flawed-giant/#comment-187892</link>
		<dc:creator>Bring Back CL's blog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Sep 2007 01:59:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/09/21/death-of-a-fatally-flawed-giant/#comment-187892</guid>
		<description>EP is alive and kicking</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>EP is alive and kicking</p>
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		<title>By: Evil Pundit</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/09/21/death-of-a-fatally-flawed-giant/#comment-187871</link>
		<dc:creator>Evil Pundit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Sep 2007 00:33:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/09/21/death-of-a-fatally-flawed-giant/#comment-187871</guid>
		<description>The &lt;em&gt;Sydney Morning Herald&lt;/em&gt; doesn&#039;t make such fine distinctions between &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/mp-raped-me-in-parliament-office/2007/09/25/1190486310966.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;alleged criminal acts and proven guilt&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The <em>Sydney Morning Herald</em> doesn&#8217;t make such fine distinctions between <a href="http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/mp-raped-me-in-parliament-office/2007/09/25/1190486310966.html" rel="nofollow">alleged criminal acts and proven guilt</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Aussie</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/09/21/death-of-a-fatally-flawed-giant/#comment-187145</link>
		<dc:creator>Aussie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Sep 2007 07:01:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/09/21/death-of-a-fatally-flawed-giant/#comment-187145</guid>
		<description>Yes, I did, Jacques.  Yes, I am a retired Lawyer, and yes I own and operate Cabs in Queensland.

&#039;Civil comments,&#039; it will be.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I did, Jacques.  Yes, I am a retired Lawyer, and yes I own and operate Cabs in Queensland.</p>
<p>&#8216;Civil comments,&#8217; it will be.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacques Chester</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/09/21/death-of-a-fatally-flawed-giant/#comment-186990</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques Chester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Sep 2007 09:17:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/09/21/death-of-a-fatally-flawed-giant/#comment-186990</guid>
		<description>I see that the two of you came from a link on a forum. You seem to have history. All good and well, but please note that we have a &#039;civil comments&#039; policy here at Troppo. If you feel the need to belt each other, you can do so back on your home turf.

Regards, the friendly local post-modern oppressor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see that the two of you came from a link on a forum. You seem to have history. All good and well, but please note that we have a &#8216;civil comments&#8217; policy here at Troppo. If you feel the need to belt each other, you can do so back on your home turf.</p>
<p>Regards, the friendly local post-modern oppressor.</p>
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		<title>By: A real aussie</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/09/21/death-of-a-fatally-flawed-giant/#comment-186982</link>
		<dc:creator>A real aussie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Sep 2007 07:23:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/09/21/death-of-a-fatally-flawed-giant/#comment-186982</guid>
		<description>&quot;Aussie said: 
Sorry, Ken..I just googled. Yes, you are a Lawyer, I did not know.

So am I.&quot;

Aussie is, in fact, a taxy driver. Not that there is anything wrong with that...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Aussie said:<br />
Sorry, Ken..I just googled. Yes, you are a Lawyer, I did not know.</p>
<p>So am I.&#8221;</p>
<p>Aussie is, in fact, a taxy driver. Not that there is anything wrong with that&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Aussie</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/09/21/death-of-a-fatally-flawed-giant/#comment-186869</link>
		<dc:creator>Aussie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 11:30:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/09/21/death-of-a-fatally-flawed-giant/#comment-186869</guid>
		<description>Sorry, Ken.....I just &#039;googled.&#039;  Yes, you are a Lawyer, I did not know.

So am I.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, Ken&#8230;..I just &#8216;googled.&#8217;  Yes, you are a Lawyer, I did not know.</p>
<p>So am I.</p>
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		<title>By: Aussie</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/09/21/death-of-a-fatally-flawed-giant/#comment-186868</link>
		<dc:creator>Aussie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 11:27:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/09/21/death-of-a-fatally-flawed-giant/#comment-186868</guid>
		<description>This is interesting.  Are you a Lawyer?

&quot;I feel sorry for the alleged victims, because they would certainly have had their own characters and reputations dragged through the mud irrespective of whether their allegations were true or not.&quot;

If their allegations were lies, which they might well be, why ought they not have their &#039;own characters and reputations&#039; tested.  That is the system.  If you want to ellege, you better be prepared for the heat in the kitchen.

But, to give these allegations some sort, or any sort, of credibility, just because Collins died, is repugnant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is interesting.  Are you a Lawyer?</p>
<p>&#8220;I feel sorry for the alleged victims, because they would certainly have had their own characters and reputations dragged through the mud irrespective of whether their allegations were true or not.&#8221;</p>
<p>If their allegations were lies, which they might well be, why ought they not have their &#8216;own characters and reputations&#8217; tested.  That is the system.  If you want to ellege, you better be prepared for the heat in the kitchen.</p>
<p>But, to give these allegations some sort, or any sort, of credibility, just because Collins died, is repugnant.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Parish</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/09/21/death-of-a-fatally-flawed-giant/#comment-186866</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Parish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 11:04:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/09/21/death-of-a-fatally-flawed-giant/#comment-186866</guid>
		<description>&quot;Aussie&quot;

I feel sorry for the alleged victims, because they would certainly have had their own characters and reputations dragged through the mud irrespective of whether their allegations were true or not.  That&#039;s the way defence lawyers conduct rape cases.  I feel sorry for Bob Collins and his family because, irrespective of his guilt or innocence, lots of mud would certainly have stuck and his reputation was permanently destroyed.  Many people would have taken a &quot;where there&#039;s smoke there&#039;s fire&quot; attitude given the number of accusers over such a long period and geographical spread, while others would have regarded the standard defence tactics of attacking the reputations of the alleged victims as repugnant, even if the tactic had succeeded in raising enough of a reasonable doubt to induce a jury to acquit.  That&#039;s the reality of a case like this.  It seldom results in joyful vindication for any of the parties, and certainly not for their families.  If you don&#039;t understand that, then I can only presume you have never had much to do with the criminal justice system.  I have no doubt Bob Collins was enough of a hard-nosed realist to have been well aware of all these dimensions of the situation.  He had little to look forward to whatever the outcome of the case.  It was a tragedy all round, and his death a merciful release.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Aussie&#8221;</p>
<p>I feel sorry for the alleged victims, because they would certainly have had their own characters and reputations dragged through the mud irrespective of whether their allegations were true or not.  That&#8217;s the way defence lawyers conduct rape cases.  I feel sorry for Bob Collins and his family because, irrespective of his guilt or innocence, lots of mud would certainly have stuck and his reputation was permanently destroyed.  Many people would have taken a &#8220;where there&#8217;s smoke there&#8217;s fire&#8221; attitude given the number of accusers over such a long period and geographical spread, while others would have regarded the standard defence tactics of attacking the reputations of the alleged victims as repugnant, even if the tactic had succeeded in raising enough of a reasonable doubt to induce a jury to acquit.  That&#8217;s the reality of a case like this.  It seldom results in joyful vindication for any of the parties, and certainly not for their families.  If you don&#8217;t understand that, then I can only presume you have never had much to do with the criminal justice system.  I have no doubt Bob Collins was enough of a hard-nosed realist to have been well aware of all these dimensions of the situation.  He had little to look forward to whatever the outcome of the case.  It was a tragedy all round, and his death a merciful release.</p>
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		<title>By: Aussie</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/09/21/death-of-a-fatally-flawed-giant/#comment-186859</link>
		<dc:creator>Aussie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 09:53:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/09/21/death-of-a-fatally-flawed-giant/#comment-186859</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Its impossible, however, to write an obituary of Bob Collins without acknowledging the elephant in the room: the sickening child sexual abuse charges he faced at his death.  I have no knowledge of their truth or otherwise, although I can certainly make some fairly educated guesses. Do those events erase or negate a record of impressive achievements in public life?  I guess it depends on the observer.  I certainly know that I feel much sorrier for Bobs family, especially his son Robbie, and for the Aboriginal men he allegedly abused as children back in Maningrida in the 1970s, than for Bobs own tragically tarnished reputation.   At least they will all now be spared the trauma of what would inevitably have been a series of very unsavoury criminal trials.&lt;/blockquote&gt;



This is repugnant.  It starts off okay, but then overtly concedes guilt with references to feeling &#039;sorry&#039; for the &#039;Aboriginal men he allegedly abused as children back in Maningrida in the 1970s.&#039;

Why sorry, unless you imply there is something to be &#039;sorry&#039; about!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Its impossible, however, to write an obituary of Bob Collins without acknowledging the elephant in the room: the sickening child sexual abuse charges he faced at his death.  I have no knowledge of their truth or otherwise, although I can certainly make some fairly educated guesses. Do those events erase or negate a record of impressive achievements in public life?  I guess it depends on the observer.  I certainly know that I feel much sorrier for Bobs family, especially his son Robbie, and for the Aboriginal men he allegedly abused as children back in Maningrida in the 1970s, than for Bobs own tragically tarnished reputation.   At least they will all now be spared the trauma of what would inevitably have been a series of very unsavoury criminal trials.</p></blockquote>
<p>This is repugnant.  It starts off okay, but then overtly concedes guilt with references to feeling &#8217;sorry&#8217; for the &#8216;Aboriginal men he allegedly abused as children back in Maningrida in the 1970s.&#8217;</p>
<p>Why sorry, unless you imply there is something to be &#8217;sorry&#8217; about!</p>
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		<title>By: Dennis Cartledge</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/09/21/death-of-a-fatally-flawed-giant/#comment-186845</link>
		<dc:creator>Dennis Cartledge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 07:44:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/09/21/death-of-a-fatally-flawed-giant/#comment-186845</guid>
		<description>I used to laugh at all those oldies scrolling the death notices each day. As a bit of a nomad Ive never really been in touch with news of the demise of most Ive mixed with in my life  except for bloody politicians.
Regardless of the various shading Im increasingly confronted by the passing of political characters; those Ive met and known, and those Ive only known at a distance.
Collins was in the latter group. Your summary reflects that appreciation for the player, warts and all. I appreciated it. Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I used to laugh at all those oldies scrolling the death notices each day. As a bit of a nomad Ive never really been in touch with news of the demise of most Ive mixed with in my life  except for bloody politicians.<br />
Regardless of the various shading Im increasingly confronted by the passing of political characters; those Ive met and known, and those Ive only known at a distance.<br />
Collins was in the latter group. Your summary reflects that appreciation for the player, warts and all. I appreciated it. Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Nicholas Gruen</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/09/21/death-of-a-fatally-flawed-giant/#comment-186836</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicholas Gruen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 07:00:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/09/21/death-of-a-fatally-flawed-giant/#comment-186836</guid>
		<description>Thx Ken,

Not sure why you say that Stewart Fist&#039;s article is of &#039;uncertain provenance&#039;. It&#039;s author and it&#039;s provenance are set out at the top of the article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thx Ken,</p>
<p>Not sure why you say that Stewart Fist&#8217;s article is of &#8216;uncertain provenance&#8217;. It&#8217;s author and it&#8217;s provenance are set out at the top of the article.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Parish</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/09/21/death-of-a-fatally-flawed-giant/#comment-186831</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Parish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 06:43:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/09/21/death-of-a-fatally-flawed-giant/#comment-186831</guid>
		<description>Reaper

If you had any knowledge of the background facts, I really don&#039;t think you&#039;d make such a comment (unless you have an unrevealed agenda of your own). Collins was facing charges by multiple accusers from the 1970s in Arnhemland, including prominent Aboriginal actor Tom E Lewis, as well as separate charges relating to an alleged assault on a 12 year old boy in Canberra in the early 1990s, and more recent charges of possession of child pornography material in which the police siezed computer hard drives from his home and would no doubt have presented them in evidence.  Even if his lawyers had managed to achieve not guilty verdicts on all those charges, there&#039;s no doubt whatever that a lot of mud would have stuck and everyone concerned would have been permanently traumatised.  In proceedings like that, names are seldom cleared nor vindication achieved.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reaper</p>
<p>If you had any knowledge of the background facts, I really don&#8217;t think you&#8217;d make such a comment (unless you have an unrevealed agenda of your own). Collins was facing charges by multiple accusers from the 1970s in Arnhemland, including prominent Aboriginal actor Tom E Lewis, as well as separate charges relating to an alleged assault on a 12 year old boy in Canberra in the early 1990s, and more recent charges of possession of child pornography material in which the police siezed computer hard drives from his home and would no doubt have presented them in evidence.  Even if his lawyers had managed to achieve not guilty verdicts on all those charges, there&#8217;s no doubt whatever that a lot of mud would have stuck and everyone concerned would have been permanently traumatised.  In proceedings like that, names are seldom cleared nor vindication achieved.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacques Chester</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/09/21/death-of-a-fatally-flawed-giant/#comment-186830</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques Chester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 06:42:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/09/21/death-of-a-fatally-flawed-giant/#comment-186830</guid>
		<description>He was an impressive fellow. RIP.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He was an impressive fellow. RIP.</p>
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		<title>By: Reaper</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/09/21/death-of-a-fatally-flawed-giant/#comment-186825</link>
		<dc:creator>Reaper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 06:27:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/09/21/death-of-a-fatally-flawed-giant/#comment-186825</guid>
		<description>The most disgraceful assortment of weasel words I&#039;ve ever read. To say that you make no judgement on the truth or otherwise of allegations of child sexual assault, then say that your sympathies lie with the victims of the assault is self evidently an assessment that he was guilty. If you don&#039;t know that he was guilty of the offence, then how can you be sympathetic to people who may have made false accusations. Collins may have been guilty, but if he wasn&#039;t, he and his family weren&#039;t saved from unsavoury proceedings, they were robbed of the opportunity to clear his name. If you can&#039;t make a better contribution than your obituary, don&#039;t make any contribution at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The most disgraceful assortment of weasel words I&#8217;ve ever read. To say that you make no judgement on the truth or otherwise of allegations of child sexual assault, then say that your sympathies lie with the victims of the assault is self evidently an assessment that he was guilty. If you don&#8217;t know that he was guilty of the offence, then how can you be sympathetic to people who may have made false accusations. Collins may have been guilty, but if he wasn&#8217;t, he and his family weren&#8217;t saved from unsavoury proceedings, they were robbed of the opportunity to clear his name. If you can&#8217;t make a better contribution than your obituary, don&#8217;t make any contribution at all.</p>
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		<title>By: &#160; Death of a fatally flawed giant&#160;by&#160;diet.MEDtrials.info</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/09/21/death-of-a-fatally-flawed-giant/#comment-186819</link>
		<dc:creator>&#160; Death of a fatally flawed giant&#160;by&#160;diet.MEDtrials.info</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 05:37:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/09/21/death-of-a-fatally-flawed-giant/#comment-186819</guid>
		<description>[...] continues at Ken Parish brought to you by diet.medtrials.info and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] continues at Ken Parish brought to you by diet.medtrials.info and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Frank Valentine</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/09/21/death-of-a-fatally-flawed-giant/#comment-186808</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank Valentine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 04:41:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/09/21/death-of-a-fatally-flawed-giant/#comment-186808</guid>
		<description>A very measured obit. Thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A very measured obit. Thank you.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/09/21/death-of-a-fatally-flawed-giant/#comment-186804</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 04:09:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/09/21/death-of-a-fatally-flawed-giant/#comment-186804</guid>
		<description>Well done and well written.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well done and well written.</p>
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		<title>By: James Farrell</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/09/21/death-of-a-fatally-flawed-giant/#comment-186803</link>
		<dc:creator>James Farrell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Sep 2007 04:06:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/09/21/death-of-a-fatally-flawed-giant/#comment-186803</guid>
		<description>I heard it on the radio half an hour ago and thought: I bet Ken will have an obituary up within the hour. Well done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I heard it on the radio half an hour ago and thought: I bet Ken will have an obituary up within the hour. Well done.</p>
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