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	<title>Comments on: Getting with the program</title>
	<atom:link href="http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/18/getting-with-the-program/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/18/getting-with-the-program/</link>
	<description>Fearlessly dispensing political, legal and economic analysis (and some whimsy) since 2002</description>
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		<title>By: Graham Bell</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/18/getting-with-the-program/#comment-202562</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham Bell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 14:48:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/18/getting-with-the-program/#comment-202562</guid>
		<description>Christopher Sheil:

Quite interesting comments here. 

I&#039;ve already commented on a similar topic over at Larvatus Prodeo In Exile [they&#039;ve had server, etc. problems on the original LP site for several days now].</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Christopher Sheil:</p>
<p>Quite interesting comments here. </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve already commented on a similar topic over at Larvatus Prodeo In Exile [they've had server, etc. problems on the original LP site for several days now].</p>
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		<title>By: observa</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/18/getting-with-the-program/#comment-202320</link>
		<dc:creator>observa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2007 14:41:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/18/getting-with-the-program/#comment-202320</guid>
		<description>&quot;Sounds good to me, except I guess repealing WorkChoices has to wait to the next parliament? ...... Cant we at least have Kevin Andrews in the stocks for tomato practice at Martin Place for just one day? How about Tone Abbott in an all-comers boxing tent? Joe Hockey on a stick? OK, the first five will do. *Sigh.*&quot;

I&#039;d get in early with the other harmless overcooked spinach leaves if I were you, before you miss out-
http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,22768910-5014075,00.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Sounds good to me, except I guess repealing WorkChoices has to wait to the next parliament? &#8230;&#8230; Cant we at least have Kevin Andrews in the stocks for tomato practice at Martin Place for just one day? How about Tone Abbott in an all-comers boxing tent? Joe Hockey on a stick? OK, the first five will do. *Sigh.*&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;d get in early with the other harmless overcooked spinach leaves if I were you, before you miss out-<br />
<a href="http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,22768910-5014075,00.html">http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/story/0,22606,22768910-5014075,00.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: cs</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/18/getting-with-the-program/#comment-202314</link>
		<dc:creator>cs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2007 14:13:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/18/getting-with-the-program/#comment-202314</guid>
		<description>No hubris here, mate. I&#039;ll find it hard to believe even after it happens, if indeed it does happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No hubris here, mate. I&#8217;ll find it hard to believe even after it happens, if indeed it does happen.</p>
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		<title>By: Niall</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/18/getting-with-the-program/#comment-202284</link>
		<dc:creator>Niall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2007 11:18:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/18/getting-with-the-program/#comment-202284</guid>
		<description>Hubris, CS? I&#039;m with Ken. There&#039;s a week to go and I for one will not believe it is so until Kerry O&#039;Brien starts to smile on Saturday night.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hubris, CS? I&#8217;m with Ken. There&#8217;s a week to go and I for one will not believe it is so until Kerry O&#8217;Brien starts to smile on Saturday night.</p>
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		<title>By: He&#8217;s making a list, he&#8217;s checking it twice &#171; Public Polity</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/18/getting-with-the-program/#comment-202281</link>
		<dc:creator>He&#8217;s making a list, he&#8217;s checking it twice &#171; Public Polity</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2007 11:04:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/18/getting-with-the-program/#comment-202281</guid>
		<description>[...] some others on Team Howard, and I am inclined to agree. There is also discussion of the list at Club Troppo and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] some others on Team Howard, and I am inclined to agree. There is also discussion of the list at Club Troppo and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Caroline</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/18/getting-with-the-program/#comment-202262</link>
		<dc:creator>Caroline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2007 08:15:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/18/getting-with-the-program/#comment-202262</guid>
		<description>. . .its just a jump to the left.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>. . .its just a jump to the left.</p>
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		<title>By: saint</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/18/getting-with-the-program/#comment-202253</link>
		<dc:creator>saint</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2007 06:35:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/18/getting-with-the-program/#comment-202253</guid>
		<description>Bingo...early evening news. Howard&#039;s criticism of Kev05...talks of it as a plan rather than list of priorities and notes the lack of economic management.  If he&#039;s so predictable to us punters...and if Kev05 is seriously economically conservative...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bingo&#8230;early evening news. Howard&#8217;s criticism of Kev05&#8230;talks of it as a plan rather than list of priorities and notes the lack of economic management.  If he&#8217;s so predictable to us punters&#8230;and if Kev05 is seriously economically conservative&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: saint</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/18/getting-with-the-program/#comment-202242</link>
		<dc:creator>saint</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2007 04:39:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/18/getting-with-the-program/#comment-202242</guid>
		<description>Caroline, you are preaching to the converted.


For the love of money is the root of all evils. Some people in reaching for it have strayed from the faith and stabbed themselves with many pains.--1 Timothy 6:10</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Caroline, you are preaching to the converted.</p>
<p>For the love of money is the root of all evils. Some people in reaching for it have strayed from the faith and stabbed themselves with many pains.&#8211;1 Timothy 6:10</p>
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		<title>By: He&#8217;s making a list, he&#8217;s checking it twice &#171; Not a Hedgehog</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/18/getting-with-the-program/#comment-202216</link>
		<dc:creator>He&#8217;s making a list, he&#8217;s checking it twice &#171; Not a Hedgehog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Nov 2007 02:31:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/18/getting-with-the-program/#comment-202216</guid>
		<description>[...] some others on Team Howard, and I am inclined to agree. There is also discussion of the list at Club Troppo and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] some others on Team Howard, and I am inclined to agree. There is also discussion of the list at Club Troppo and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Armagnac Esq</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/18/getting-with-the-program/#comment-202167</link>
		<dc:creator>Armagnac Esq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Nov 2007 23:15:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/18/getting-with-the-program/#comment-202167</guid>
		<description>I respectfully disagree, though I hope that&#039;s the case. Realistically it all comes down to a handful of voters in a handful of seats and none of them cares less about royal commissions or crimes against humanity.

As for the list, 1 and 5 are big steps, the rest is just filler. Has anyone clarified by the way whether the trade centres being in &#039;all schools&#039; includes private schools? 

Work Choices is winning as an argument based on fear rather than current situation. As per 4 corners and its marginal candidates, people expressed fear for their kids and for the future, rather than actually complaining about their current conditions. There are some people who&#039;ve copped a poor deal by now, but I suggest the election-swinging aspect is about fear. 

Not saying that&#039;s unjustified- but the point, returning to Shiel&#039;s call for quick action, is that a slow windback is much more what the populace (marginal populace in particular) want than a sharp yank.

As for health- negotiating&#039;s fine but how about spending some money on beds?

As for education - how about ditching the trivial laptop junk and fixing the basics; our local highschools can&#039;t affort toilet paper, decent classrooms, and good teachers. I am told, for example, that there is a manifest undersupply of language teachers in Melbourne. Why isn&#039;t this an issue?

We probably won&#039;t be using laptops in 5 years anyway...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I respectfully disagree, though I hope that&#8217;s the case. Realistically it all comes down to a handful of voters in a handful of seats and none of them cares less about royal commissions or crimes against humanity.</p>
<p>As for the list, 1 and 5 are big steps, the rest is just filler. Has anyone clarified by the way whether the trade centres being in &#8216;all schools&#8217; includes private schools? </p>
<p>Work Choices is winning as an argument based on fear rather than current situation. As per 4 corners and its marginal candidates, people expressed fear for their kids and for the future, rather than actually complaining about their current conditions. There are some people who&#8217;ve copped a poor deal by now, but I suggest the election-swinging aspect is about fear. </p>
<p>Not saying that&#8217;s unjustified- but the point, returning to Shiel&#8217;s call for quick action, is that a slow windback is much more what the populace (marginal populace in particular) want than a sharp yank.</p>
<p>As for health- negotiating&#8217;s fine but how about spending some money on beds?</p>
<p>As for education &#8211; how about ditching the trivial laptop junk and fixing the basics; our local highschools can&#8217;t affort toilet paper, decent classrooms, and good teachers. I am told, for example, that there is a manifest undersupply of language teachers in Melbourne. Why isn&#8217;t this an issue?</p>
<p>We probably won&#8217;t be using laptops in 5 years anyway&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: wilful</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/18/getting-with-the-program/#comment-202165</link>
		<dc:creator>wilful</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Nov 2007 23:03:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/18/getting-with-the-program/#comment-202165</guid>
		<description>Ken, it&#039;s definitely time to put the Australian sparkling in the fridge. Nothing is going to stop a Rudd Labor Government now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ken, it&#8217;s definitely time to put the Australian sparkling in the fridge. Nothing is going to stop a Rudd Labor Government now.</p>
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		<title>By: Tony Healy</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/18/getting-with-the-program/#comment-202158</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony Healy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Nov 2007 22:26:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/18/getting-with-the-program/#comment-202158</guid>
		<description>If there was justice in the world, I would like to see fatso Hockey actually doing some real work, like digging ditches or loading garbage bins onto the morning truck.

It would be good if this was with a pathological supervisor who detested slow workers.

Meantime, cs, Rudd seems to be concentrating on the positives, which is probably the wisest election strategy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If there was justice in the world, I would like to see fatso Hockey actually doing some real work, like digging ditches or loading garbage bins onto the morning truck.</p>
<p>It would be good if this was with a pathological supervisor who detested slow workers.</p>
<p>Meantime, cs, Rudd seems to be concentrating on the positives, which is probably the wisest election strategy.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Lovell</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/18/getting-with-the-program/#comment-202153</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Lovell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Nov 2007 21:15:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/18/getting-with-the-program/#comment-202153</guid>
		<description>*cough* let&#039;s not get too far ahead of ourselves folks ... only one more week to go ... be patient.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>*cough* let&#8217;s not get too far ahead of ourselves folks &#8230; only one more week to go &#8230; be patient.</p>
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		<title>By: Caroline</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/18/getting-with-the-program/#comment-202147</link>
		<dc:creator>Caroline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Nov 2007 20:32:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/18/getting-with-the-program/#comment-202147</guid>
		<description>Wot? No national week of celebrations? I&#039;d be more comfortable about them if he&#039;d said they&#039;re going to take a couple of weeks off--that would be sane, healthy--&lt;em&gt;rational. &lt;/em&gt; 

Saint, Howard has taught us well? Ya? ;  &lt;em&gt;A mark a yen a buck or a pound zat clinking clanking clonking sound is all zat makes the vorld go around.  It makes the world go round. Moneymoneymoneymoneymoneymoneymoneymoneymoneymoneymoney&lt;/em&gt;

It won&#039;t be Rudd, but one day, maybe, we&#039;ll get a leader who says that the air we breathe and the water we drink i.e, &lt;em&gt;the environment&lt;/em&gt;, is central to everything, not the effing economy.  Howard&#039;s greatest untruth, that marked him out as a small, fearful, man and no leader at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wot? No national week of celebrations? I&#8217;d be more comfortable about them if he&#8217;d said they&#8217;re going to take a couple of weeks off&#8211;that would be sane, healthy&#8211;<em>rational. </em> </p>
<p>Saint, Howard has taught us well? Ya? ;  <em>A mark a yen a buck or a pound zat clinking clanking clonking sound is all zat makes the vorld go around.  It makes the world go round. Moneymoneymoneymoneymoneymoneymoneymoneymoneymoneymoney</em></p>
<p>It won&#8217;t be Rudd, but one day, maybe, we&#8217;ll get a leader who says that the air we breathe and the water we drink i.e, <em>the environment</em>, is central to everything, not the effing economy.  Howard&#8217;s greatest untruth, that marked him out as a small, fearful, man and no leader at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/18/getting-with-the-program/#comment-202138</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Nov 2007 19:36:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/18/getting-with-the-program/#comment-202138</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I find this list interesting, not for its contents but for its omissions.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Indeed. But what a political checklist for the punters.

In the current environment, the phrase &quot;live in the Lodge&quot; has a real power out there in the suburbs, i believe.  Let&#039;s hear a little more of that line for a day or so.  It highlights the incredible fallacy of Howard&#039;s battlers thing.

And bring on Thursday, the PM at the Press Club.  I recall clearly Keating&#039;s last stand there. The sentiment in the room came across, palpably, as the journo&#039;s - the interface, who&#039;d gone the distance for so long then - realised the man was gone, tired, disbelieved, but at core seemingly loved and believed in his country. Not here to pick up on anything than the last point: for Howard at core seemingly loves and believes in something else, with his country being used to perform some task towards that.  I doubt there&#039;ll be that same sentiment in the room on Thursday.

That truly great symbol is now growing clear again: may the Coat of Arms never be worn for such opportunism, morning walks or not, again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I find this list interesting, not for its contents but for its omissions.</p></blockquote>
<p>Indeed. But what a political checklist for the punters.</p>
<p>In the current environment, the phrase &#8220;live in the Lodge&#8221; has a real power out there in the suburbs, i believe.  Let&#8217;s hear a little more of that line for a day or so.  It highlights the incredible fallacy of Howard&#8217;s battlers thing.</p>
<p>And bring on Thursday, the PM at the Press Club.  I recall clearly Keating&#8217;s last stand there. The sentiment in the room came across, palpably, as the journo&#8217;s &#8211; the interface, who&#8217;d gone the distance for so long then &#8211; realised the man was gone, tired, disbelieved, but at core seemingly loved and believed in his country. Not here to pick up on anything than the last point: for Howard at core seemingly loves and believes in something else, with his country being used to perform some task towards that.  I doubt there&#8217;ll be that same sentiment in the room on Thursday.</p>
<p>That truly great symbol is now growing clear again: may the Coat of Arms never be worn for such opportunism, morning walks or not, again.</p>
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		<title>By: saint</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/18/getting-with-the-program/#comment-202126</link>
		<dc:creator>saint</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Nov 2007 18:36:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/18/getting-with-the-program/#comment-202126</guid>
		<description>Steady on there Christopher. Crimes against humanity? Although Kevin in stocks at a carneval stall might be fun. He&#039;d make a great Carneval Kevin.

Anyway, I find this list interesting, not for its contents but for its omissions. I would have thought next year&#039;s Budget would be a top priority given most of that work gets underway after Christmas/early New Year, no?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steady on there Christopher. Crimes against humanity? Although Kevin in stocks at a carneval stall might be fun. He&#8217;d make a great Carneval Kevin.</p>
<p>Anyway, I find this list interesting, not for its contents but for its omissions. I would have thought next year&#8217;s Budget would be a top priority given most of that work gets underway after Christmas/early New Year, no?</p>
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