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	<title>Comments on: The election and &#8216;The Intervention&#8217;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/27/the-election-and-the-intervention/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/27/the-election-and-the-intervention/</link>
	<description></description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 06:42:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: David Coles</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/27/the-election-and-the-intervention/#comment-205329</link>
		<dc:creator>David Coles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2007 06:46:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/27/the-election-and-the-intervention/#comment-205329</guid>
		<description>I assumed that Chris Graham was talking about the proposed breach of the constitutional requirement for the removal of property otherwise than on just terms. This was a major plank in the intervention but has apparently been dropping in priority as the recognition develops that constitutional challenges are likely. 

But perhaps I am being too charitable?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I assumed that Chris Graham was talking about the proposed breach of the constitutional requirement for the removal of property otherwise than on just terms. This was a major plank in the intervention but has apparently been dropping in priority as the recognition develops that constitutional challenges are likely. </p>
<p>But perhaps I am being too charitable?</p>
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		<title>By: John Greenfield</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/27/the-election-and-the-intervention/#comment-205266</link>
		<dc:creator>John Greenfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2007 01:54:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/27/the-election-and-the-intervention/#comment-205266</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;They just don’t see why they have to give up their basic human rights in the process.&lt;/blockquote&gt;


Somebody needs to remind Mr. Graham that Australia is not a society based on that empty trope "human rights." It is a society based on the Australian Constitution, the State Constitutions, and the parliaments. With this basic education in civics perhaps more nuanced articles might flow from mr. Graham's keyboard for future issues of the &lt;i&gt;National Indigenous Times.&lt;/i&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>They just don’t see why they have to give up their basic human rights in the process.</p></blockquote>
<p>Somebody needs to remind Mr. Graham that Australia is not a society based on that empty trope &#8220;human rights.&#8221; It is a society based on the Australian Constitution, the State Constitutions, and the parliaments. With this basic education in civics perhaps more nuanced articles might flow from mr. Graham&#8217;s keyboard for future issues of the <i>National Indigenous Times.</i></p>
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		<title>By: Bill Posters</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/27/the-election-and-the-intervention/#comment-205125</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Posters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 11:28:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/27/the-election-and-the-intervention/#comment-205125</guid>
		<description>Has Ken posted his One True Solution yet? I want to print it out and send it by pony to the new minister.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Has Ken posted his One True Solution yet? I want to print it out and send it by pony to the new minister.</p>
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		<title>By: FDB</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/27/the-election-and-the-intervention/#comment-204879</link>
		<dc:creator>FDB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 10:24:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/27/the-election-and-the-intervention/#comment-204879</guid>
		<description>I can has 'to'?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can has &#8216;to&#8217;?</p>
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		<title>By: FDB</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/27/the-election-and-the-intervention/#comment-204878</link>
		<dc:creator>FDB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 10:20:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/27/the-election-and-the-intervention/#comment-204878</guid>
		<description>Give it Garrett, I say.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Give it Garrett, I say.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/27/the-election-and-the-intervention/#comment-204865</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 09:31:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/27/the-election-and-the-intervention/#comment-204865</guid>
		<description>I hope Rudd delegates this well.  This requires special attention, and may there be someone with a golden heart and exemplary managerial skills to assess this, rework it, and move it forward.  I'd like to see some healing, too, in that this for all it's announced intentions was bloody &lt;i&gt;brutal&lt;/i&gt;.

The country is too raw just now for Rudd to be the mover and shaker here. This is about groundwork. Politics and selling of same can take a back seat now, surely? 

Let's hope we can see this move away from the politics focus, and see and hear from those affected heartwarming results over the months ahead.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I hope Rudd delegates this well.  This requires special attention, and may there be someone with a golden heart and exemplary managerial skills to assess this, rework it, and move it forward.  I&#8217;d like to see some healing, too, in that this for all it&#8217;s announced intentions was bloody <i>brutal</i>.</p>
<p>The country is too raw just now for Rudd to be the mover and shaker here. This is about groundwork. Politics and selling of same can take a back seat now, surely? </p>
<p>Let&#8217;s hope we can see this move away from the politics focus, and see and hear from those affected heartwarming results over the months ahead.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/27/the-election-and-the-intervention/#comment-204859</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 09:13:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/27/the-election-and-the-intervention/#comment-204859</guid>
		<description>I don't think there was much "democratic repudiation" of the intervention, but the total absence of a democratic embrace of it is nearly as damning.

Hopefully we'll get a minister less interesting in creating headlines and more concerned with creating partnerships to address the all too obvious problems.

The NTG should re-send their letter of June 2006 to the PM asking for a co-operative Territory-Commonwealth "significant and sustained" focus on remote communities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think there was much &#8220;democratic repudiation&#8221; of the intervention, but the total absence of a democratic embrace of it is nearly as damning.</p>
<p>Hopefully we&#8217;ll get a minister less interesting in creating headlines and more concerned with creating partnerships to address the all too obvious problems.</p>
<p>The NTG should re-send their letter of June 2006 to the PM asking for a co-operative Territory-Commonwealth &#8220;significant and sustained&#8221; focus on remote communities.</p>
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		<title>By: What Now? &#171; The Knee-Jerk Response Taskforce</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/27/the-election-and-the-intervention/#comment-204856</link>
		<dc:creator>What Now? &#171; The Knee-Jerk Response Taskforce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 09:00:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/27/the-election-and-the-intervention/#comment-204856</guid>
		<description>[...] Longman almost certainly had nothing to do with the NTER, as Chris Graham (Editor of NIT) noted at Crikey  (thanks Club Troppo ), there was a voter assessment of the intervention in the seat of Lingiari [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Longman almost certainly had nothing to do with the NTER, as Chris Graham (Editor of NIT) noted at Crikey  (thanks Club Troppo ), there was a voter assessment of the intervention in the seat of Lingiari [...]</p>
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		<title>By: David Coles</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/27/the-election-and-the-intervention/#comment-204807</link>
		<dc:creator>David Coles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 05:20:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/27/the-election-and-the-intervention/#comment-204807</guid>
		<description>I agree that Rudd wont stop the intervention but I am sure that he will change it. Rudd's managerial style requires that positive outcomes, particularly where the inputs are considerable. The current process is not generating a sufficient level of positive outcomes so it will have to change.

With any luck there will be good advice flowing forward about how the process can be changed and, with any luck, there wont be any more simplistic solutions offered up. Change in this area requires flexibility, commitment, courage and the capacity to show respect where it is due. 

Peter Garret as a new Minister would be a choice that could demonstrate that there is a new approach. He has sky high credibility with people living in remote areas and could get support for tough action where others will struggle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that Rudd wont stop the intervention but I am sure that he will change it. Rudd&#8217;s managerial style requires that positive outcomes, particularly where the inputs are considerable. The current process is not generating a sufficient level of positive outcomes so it will have to change.</p>
<p>With any luck there will be good advice flowing forward about how the process can be changed and, with any luck, there wont be any more simplistic solutions offered up. Change in this area requires flexibility, commitment, courage and the capacity to show respect where it is due. </p>
<p>Peter Garret as a new Minister would be a choice that could demonstrate that there is a new approach. He has sky high credibility with people living in remote areas and could get support for tough action where others will struggle.</p>
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		<title>By: Nicholas Gruen</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/27/the-election-and-the-intervention/#comment-204796</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicholas Gruen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 04:35:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/27/the-election-and-the-intervention/#comment-204796</guid>
		<description>I don't think Rudd will walk away from the hard issues in this area.  While I remain a strong supporter of Pearson's ideas in this area, his anti-left stuff is overweening.  I think he's quite right about the latte left and many of the foot-soldiers in the left of centre parties. But most of the people at the top of these parties are unsentimental hard heads.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think Rudd will walk away from the hard issues in this area.  While I remain a strong supporter of Pearson&#8217;s ideas in this area, his anti-left stuff is overweening.  I think he&#8217;s quite right about the latte left and many of the foot-soldiers in the left of centre parties. But most of the people at the top of these parties are unsentimental hard heads.</p>
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		<title>By: Backroom Girl</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/27/the-election-and-the-intervention/#comment-204778</link>
		<dc:creator>Backroom Girl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 02:12:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/27/the-election-and-the-intervention/#comment-204778</guid>
		<description>DD - I think I agree with your assessment of Brough, though I haven't had any personal experience of him as a Minister.  Funny how army types think the military approach can solve everything isn't it?  Perhaps they have less capacity than other types to imagine that other people see things differently.  But I guess anyone who is genuinely attracted to military life is going to want to either tell others what to do or want to be told, or both.  Coming up with one's own solutions to problems is not high on the agenda, in any case.

However, I often despair at the capacity of some people to only see evil and malign intent on the other side of politics (and, it goes without saying, the opposite on their own).  While I hope that the Rudd government does knock some of the rougher edges off the NT intervention, I hope they won't walk away from the issues for another generation.  I agree with Ken that many of Noel Pearson's ideas have a lot of merit, especially if implemented in such a way as to genuinely build people's capacity to take care of themselves in the longer term.

I would like to think that the incoming government was more into capacity-building than the previous one, but I'm not sure that is the case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DD - I think I agree with your assessment of Brough, though I haven&#8217;t had any personal experience of him as a Minister.  Funny how army types think the military approach can solve everything isn&#8217;t it?  Perhaps they have less capacity than other types to imagine that other people see things differently.  But I guess anyone who is genuinely attracted to military life is going to want to either tell others what to do or want to be told, or both.  Coming up with one&#8217;s own solutions to problems is not high on the agenda, in any case.</p>
<p>However, I often despair at the capacity of some people to only see evil and malign intent on the other side of politics (and, it goes without saying, the opposite on their own).  While I hope that the Rudd government does knock some of the rougher edges off the NT intervention, I hope they won&#8217;t walk away from the issues for another generation.  I agree with Ken that many of Noel Pearson&#8217;s ideas have a lot of merit, especially if implemented in such a way as to genuinely build people&#8217;s capacity to take care of themselves in the longer term.</p>
<p>I would like to think that the incoming government was more into capacity-building than the previous one, but I&#8217;m not sure that is the case.</p>
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		<title>By: derrida derider</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/27/the-election-and-the-intervention/#comment-204764</link>
		<dc:creator>derrida derider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 00:44:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/27/the-election-and-the-intervention/#comment-204764</guid>
		<description>I don't think Mal Brough was a good Minister - too much of the military in him.  He never understood that complex problems always have a simple solution, and that that simple soluton is always wrong. Nor did he understand that you can't get people in civilian life to just obey orders. 

But questioning his good faith in this is deeply unfair - the military has also imbued him with a lot of personal integrity.  Plotting all this for political gain just would not occur to him.

But questioning the former PM's good faith in this is another kettle of fish ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think Mal Brough was a good Minister - too much of the military in him.  He never understood that complex problems always have a simple solution, and that that simple soluton is always wrong. Nor did he understand that you can&#8217;t get people in civilian life to just obey orders. </p>
<p>But questioning his good faith in this is deeply unfair - the military has also imbued him with a lot of personal integrity.  Plotting all this for political gain just would not occur to him.</p>
<p>But questioning the former PM&#8217;s good faith in this is another kettle of fish &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: I had a dream &#171; Larvatus Prodeo in exile</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/27/the-election-and-the-intervention/#comment-204762</link>
		<dc:creator>I had a dream &#171; Larvatus Prodeo in exile</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Nov 2007 00:37:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/27/the-election-and-the-intervention/#comment-204762</guid>
		<description>[...] own political views. In that context, it&#8217;s interesting to read the forceful argument from Graham Ring that the election results in the NT are a democratic repudiation of the intervention by those whom [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] own political views. In that context, it&#8217;s interesting to read the forceful argument from Graham Ring that the election results in the NT are a democratic repudiation of the intervention by those whom [...]</p>
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		<title>By: David Coles</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/27/the-election-and-the-intervention/#comment-204750</link>
		<dc:creator>David Coles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2007 23:19:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/27/the-election-and-the-intervention/#comment-204750</guid>
		<description>Just to keep things in perspective Jacques and Harry, the people of Wadeye have historically voted for the CLP rather than the ALP. The place was established as a  Catholic mission and there was always strong support for the CLP. 

The people of Wadeye were subjected to the full force of Mal Brough and, on the weekend, they made their views clear. 

The intervention is clearly not all bad. Whether it was a cynical political move or a real attempt to make a change is not terribly relevant at this time. The money needs to keep coming and some of the programs can be made to work. On the other hand, destroying CDEP just so a person's money can be taken is blind stupidity. Much of the money being spent is being wasted and that, in a situation where every dollar is valuable, is a crime.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to keep things in perspective Jacques and Harry, the people of Wadeye have historically voted for the CLP rather than the ALP. The place was established as a  Catholic mission and there was always strong support for the CLP. </p>
<p>The people of Wadeye were subjected to the full force of Mal Brough and, on the weekend, they made their views clear. </p>
<p>The intervention is clearly not all bad. Whether it was a cynical political move or a real attempt to make a change is not terribly relevant at this time. The money needs to keep coming and some of the programs can be made to work. On the other hand, destroying CDEP just so a person&#8217;s money can be taken is blind stupidity. Much of the money being spent is being wasted and that, in a situation where every dollar is valuable, is a crime.</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Rennie</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/27/the-election-and-the-intervention/#comment-204749</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Rennie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2007 23:09:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/27/the-election-and-the-intervention/#comment-204749</guid>
		<description>When Cyclone Monica struck the Arnhem community of &lt;strong&gt;Maningrida&lt;/strong&gt; on 24 April 2006, Mal Brough was visiting Wadeye in the NT. Chief Minister Clare Martin and her successor Paul Henderson visited the devastated area almost immediately, but Brough showed no interest. His office even declined to comment a month later. There were no votes in a community which was clearly helping itself. I understand that the vote was 94% ALP there on Saturday. More than 10% of the voters are not indigenous.

Whitlam and Fraser visited Maningrida as PM and are fondly remembered by elders. If Howard and Brough had treated people with respect, things might have been different for them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When Cyclone Monica struck the Arnhem community of <strong>Maningrida</strong> on 24 April 2006, Mal Brough was visiting Wadeye in the NT. Chief Minister Clare Martin and her successor Paul Henderson visited the devastated area almost immediately, but Brough showed no interest. His office even declined to comment a month later. There were no votes in a community which was clearly helping itself. I understand that the vote was 94% ALP there on Saturday. More than 10% of the voters are not indigenous.</p>
<p>Whitlam and Fraser visited Maningrida as PM and are fondly remembered by elders. If Howard and Brough had treated people with respect, things might have been different for them.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Parish</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/27/the-election-and-the-intervention/#comment-204733</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Parish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2007 21:29:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/27/the-election-and-the-intervention/#comment-204733</guid>
		<description>That's more a Homer Paxton comment than a Nabakov special.  More tired and emotional than usual?  BTW we haven't forgotten the photos for the album, just buried under marking and finishing essays (in Jen's case). But both almost finished.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s more a Homer Paxton comment than a Nabakov special.  More tired and emotional than usual?  BTW we haven&#8217;t forgotten the photos for the album, just buried under marking and finishing essays (in Jen&#8217;s case). But both almost finished.</p>
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		<title>By: Nabakov</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/27/the-election-and-the-intervention/#comment-204672</link>
		<dc:creator>Nabakov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2007 13:51:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/27/the-election-and-the-intervention/#comment-204672</guid>
		<description>So this issue is not as black and white as some seem to think?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So this issue is not as black and white as some seem to think?</p>
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		<title>By: observa</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/27/the-election-and-the-intervention/#comment-204660</link>
		<dc:creator>observa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2007 13:24:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/27/the-election-and-the-intervention/#comment-204660</guid>
		<description>"So Ken, Graham’s got it wrong, Brough got it wrong, Pearson’s got it wrong.

Who has got it right?"

That will be the the bloke who says sorry so we can all move on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;So Ken, Graham’s got it wrong, Brough got it wrong, Pearson’s got it wrong.</p>
<p>Who has got it right?&#8221;</p>
<p>That will be the the bloke who says sorry so we can all move on.</p>
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		<title>By: Nicholas Gruen</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/27/the-election-and-the-intervention/#comment-204644</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicholas Gruen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2007 12:26:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/27/the-election-and-the-intervention/#comment-204644</guid>
		<description>Harry,

I'm glad you have such high opinions of Mal B.  Perhaps you're right. 

If your comments were addressed to me, please address yourself to the words I used, not to something written by someone else who said some things that I found of interest and thought would be of interest here. 

For the record, though I know far less about the issues, I can't find any difference between my own views on this and the views Ken Parish has expressed above.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Harry,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m glad you have such high opinions of Mal B.  Perhaps you&#8217;re right. </p>
<p>If your comments were addressed to me, please address yourself to the words I used, not to something written by someone else who said some things that I found of interest and thought would be of interest here. </p>
<p>For the record, though I know far less about the issues, I can&#8217;t find any difference between my own views on this and the views Ken Parish has expressed above.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill Posters</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/27/the-election-and-the-intervention/#comment-204639</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Posters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2007 12:16:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/11/27/the-election-and-the-intervention/#comment-204639</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Chris Graham’s article is simplistic and silly, as is most of what he writes in the Indigenous Times.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

How silly of him not to wait for Ken's post, which will doubtless reveal the one true way to solve through a difficult problem, before going off half-cocked with his simplistic "facts" and so-called "figures".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Chris Graham’s article is simplistic and silly, as is most of what he writes in the Indigenous Times.</p></blockquote>
<p>How silly of him not to wait for Ken&#8217;s post, which will doubtless reveal the one true way to solve through a difficult problem, before going off half-cocked with his simplistic &#8220;facts&#8221; and so-called &#8220;figures&#8221;.</p>
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