<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Disciplinary biases, institutional detail . . . and commonsense</title>
	<atom:link href="http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/01/20/disciplinary-biases-institutional-detail-and-commonsense/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/01/20/disciplinary-biases-institutional-detail-and-commonsense/</link>
	<description></description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 07 Sep 2008 14:29:53 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: Crooked Timber &#187; &#187; Abstraction and the Details</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/01/20/disciplinary-biases-institutional-detail-and-commonsense/#comment-227064</link>
		<dc:creator>Crooked Timber &#187; &#187; Abstraction and the Details</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 17:52:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/01/20/disciplinary-biases-institutional-detail-and-commonsense/#comment-227064</guid>
		<description>[...] Nicholas Gruen and Tom Slee follow up&#8212;and generalize from&#8212;my post the other day about the details of proposals for presumed-consent organ donation in Britain. Here&#8217;s Nicholas: But for a long time I&#8217;ve observed the poor functionality of economics which often gets itself hung up on what&#8217;s in the textbooks, rather than trying to use the concepts, principles and techniques enunciated there as a first jumping off point and a tool kit to try to solve problems keeping in mind that the solving of problems will almost always involve a high degree of (non-disciplinary) commonsense. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Nicholas Gruen and Tom Slee follow up&#8212;and generalize from&#8212;my post the other day about the details of proposals for presumed-consent organ donation in Britain. Here&#8217;s Nicholas: But for a long time I&#8217;ve observed the poor functionality of economics which often gets itself hung up on what&#8217;s in the textbooks, rather than trying to use the concepts, principles and techniques enunciated there as a first jumping off point and a tool kit to try to solve problems keeping in mind that the solving of problems will almost always involve a high degree of (non-disciplinary) commonsense. [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/01/20/disciplinary-biases-institutional-detail-and-commonsense/#comment-226560</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 00:24:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/01/20/disciplinary-biases-institutional-detail-and-commonsense/#comment-226560</guid>
		<description>Victorian County Court criminal cases use video links, certainly, although that is not the same rules.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Victorian County Court criminal cases use video links, certainly, although that is not the same rules.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ken Parish</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/01/20/disciplinary-biases-institutional-detail-and-commonsense/#comment-226558</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Parish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jan 2008 00:18:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/01/20/disciplinary-biases-institutional-detail-and-commonsense/#comment-226558</guid>
		<description>The relevant &lt;a href="http://www.dms.dpc.vic.gov.au/Domino/Web_Notes/LDMS/PubLawToday.nsf/b12e276826f7c27fca256de50022686b/23EA87B2D33A0D2BCA2573C300758D8C/$FILE/99-20sr033.pdf" rel="nofollow"&gt;Victorian County Court Rules &lt;/a&gt;(where I suspect Nicholas's litgation was most likely conducted) do not appear to make specific provision for taking of evidence by video conference.  That might well be in part because the County Court sits in lots of country areas where video conferencing facilities aren't available.  However, there might stil be scope for a party to make application to the judge for taking of evidence on a particular point in a particular matter, where video conferencing facilities ARE readily available.  Court Rules generally give judges quite wide discretions as to directions concerning trial of a matter, although I certainly haven't analysed the Victorian Rules to see whether such an argument would be open.  Moreover, even if it is, the fact that "things just aren't done that way" might well militate against the success of an application.  It might well be worthwhile making submissions to the Chief Judge of the County Court on this point.  The courts are in large measure masters of their own procedures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The relevant <a href="http://www.dms.dpc.vic.gov.au/Domino/Web_Notes/LDMS/PubLawToday.nsf/b12e276826f7c27fca256de50022686b/23EA87B2D33A0D2BCA2573C300758D8C/$FILE/99-20sr033.pdf" >Victorian County Court Rules </a>(where I suspect Nicholas&#8217;s litgation was most likely conducted) do not appear to make specific provision for taking of evidence by video conference.  That might well be in part because the County Court sits in lots of country areas where video conferencing facilities aren&#8217;t available.  However, there might stil be scope for a party to make application to the judge for taking of evidence on a particular point in a particular matter, where video conferencing facilities ARE readily available.  Court Rules generally give judges quite wide discretions as to directions concerning trial of a matter, although I certainly haven&#8217;t analysed the Victorian Rules to see whether such an argument would be open.  Moreover, even if it is, the fact that &#8220;things just aren&#8217;t done that way&#8221; might well militate against the success of an application.  It might well be worthwhile making submissions to the Chief Judge of the County Court on this point.  The courts are in large measure masters of their own procedures.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Ken Parish</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/01/20/disciplinary-biases-institutional-detail-and-commonsense/#comment-226552</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Parish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jan 2008 23:47:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/01/20/disciplinary-biases-institutional-detail-and-commonsense/#comment-226552</guid>
		<description>I think you'll find that most States, at least in the Supreme Court if not lower courts, have provision for taking of evidence by video link rather than personal attendance, although I realise that was just an illustrative example of Nicholas's general point.  Thus, the problem Nicholas experienced with his litigation might well be more a result of his (or his lawyer's) failure to be aware of the available procedures and take advantage of them rather than a defect in the procedures themselves.  The NT Supreme Court Rules, for instance, which are in most respects identical to the Victorian SC Rules, provide as follows:

&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;strong&gt;48.26 Evidence at trial by videoconference&lt;/strong&gt; 

(1) If a party intends to adduce evidence at the trial of a proceeding by means of a videoconference, not later than 4 weeks before the date fixed for the trial, the party must – 

(a) give to the other parties notice of that intention; 
(b) file a copy of the notice; and 

(c) deliver a copy of the notice to the trial Judge's associate.

(2) A notice under subrule (1) is to – 
(a) state the name of the witness; 
(b) state the proposed time of the videoconference; and 

(c) be accompanied by a copy of a statement of the witness's evidence in chief signed by the witness.

(3) Within 7 days after receiving a notice under subrule (1), a party may object to the proposal contained in the notice. 
(4) An objection under subrule (3) is to be dealt with by the trial Judge. 

(5) If, within the period referred to in subrule (3), no objection to the proposal has been made, all parties to the proceeding are to be taken to have consented to the proposal. 

(6) If an objection made in accordance with subrule (3) is upheld, the trial Judge may order that, regardless of the outcome of the proceeding, the party objecting pay as costs to the party who proposed the videoconference the difference between the costs of adducing the evidence by means of a videoconference and the costs of bringing the witness into the physical presence of the Court to adduce the evidence. 

(7) At a videoconference under this rule, the evidence in chief of the witness is to be confined to the evidence in chief in the witness's statement referred to in subrule (2)(c). 

(8) The party proposing to adduce evidence by a videoconference under this rule must arrange and meet the expenses of the facilities necessary for the witness to give the evidence and for the trial Judge and the other parties to see and hear that evidence as it is given. &lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you&#8217;ll find that most States, at least in the Supreme Court if not lower courts, have provision for taking of evidence by video link rather than personal attendance, although I realise that was just an illustrative example of Nicholas&#8217;s general point.  Thus, the problem Nicholas experienced with his litigation might well be more a result of his (or his lawyer&#8217;s) failure to be aware of the available procedures and take advantage of them rather than a defect in the procedures themselves.  The NT Supreme Court Rules, for instance, which are in most respects identical to the Victorian SC Rules, provide as follows:</p>
<blockquote><p><strong>48.26 Evidence at trial by videoconference</strong> </p>
<p>(1) If a party intends to adduce evidence at the trial of a proceeding by means of a videoconference, not later than 4 weeks before the date fixed for the trial, the party must – </p>
<p>(a) give to the other parties notice of that intention;<br />
(b) file a copy of the notice; and </p>
<p>(c) deliver a copy of the notice to the trial Judge&#8217;s associate.</p>
<p>(2) A notice under subrule (1) is to –<br />
(a) state the name of the witness;<br />
(b) state the proposed time of the videoconference; and </p>
<p>(c) be accompanied by a copy of a statement of the witness&#8217;s evidence in chief signed by the witness.</p>
<p>(3) Within 7 days after receiving a notice under subrule (1), a party may object to the proposal contained in the notice.<br />
(4) An objection under subrule (3) is to be dealt with by the trial Judge. </p>
<p>(5) If, within the period referred to in subrule (3), no objection to the proposal has been made, all parties to the proceeding are to be taken to have consented to the proposal. </p>
<p>(6) If an objection made in accordance with subrule (3) is upheld, the trial Judge may order that, regardless of the outcome of the proceeding, the party objecting pay as costs to the party who proposed the videoconference the difference between the costs of adducing the evidence by means of a videoconference and the costs of bringing the witness into the physical presence of the Court to adduce the evidence. </p>
<p>(7) At a videoconference under this rule, the evidence in chief of the witness is to be confined to the evidence in chief in the witness&#8217;s statement referred to in subrule (2)(c). </p>
<p>(8) The party proposing to adduce evidence by a videoconference under this rule must arrange and meet the expenses of the facilities necessary for the witness to give the evidence and for the trial Judge and the other parties to see and hear that evidence as it is given. </p></blockquote>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mark Bahnisch</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/01/20/disciplinary-biases-institutional-detail-and-commonsense/#comment-226546</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Bahnisch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jan 2008 23:37:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/01/20/disciplinary-biases-institutional-detail-and-commonsense/#comment-226546</guid>
		<description>Have you got a reference, Don?

I read some of Hood's stuff years ago, and he's good value.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have you got a reference, Don?</p>
<p>I read some of Hood&#8217;s stuff years ago, and he&#8217;s good value.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Don Arthur</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/01/20/disciplinary-biases-institutional-detail-and-commonsense/#comment-226476</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Arthur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jan 2008 21:16:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/01/20/disciplinary-biases-institutional-detail-and-commonsense/#comment-226476</guid>
		<description>In 'The Art of the State: Culture, Rhetoric, and Public Management' Christopher Hood applies Mary Douglas' grid-group theory to public management (via Wildavsky et al).

Rather than talking about disciplines, Hood talks about cultures -- each with their own blind spots etc.

It's interesting, and I can think of all sorts of ways of applying it, but I'm not sure how you could test it.

Has anyone read it? If so, what did you think?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In &#8216;The Art of the State: Culture, Rhetoric, and Public Management&#8217; Christopher Hood applies Mary Douglas&#8217; grid-group theory to public management (via Wildavsky et al).</p>
<p>Rather than talking about disciplines, Hood talks about cultures &#8212; each with their own blind spots etc.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s interesting, and I can think of all sorts of ways of applying it, but I&#8217;m not sure how you could test it.</p>
<p>Has anyone read it? If so, what did you think?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nicholas Gruen</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/01/20/disciplinary-biases-institutional-detail-and-commonsense/#comment-226089</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicholas Gruen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jan 2008 14:54:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/01/20/disciplinary-biases-institutional-detail-and-commonsense/#comment-226089</guid>
		<description>Mark, 

I'm arguing for a kind of vigilance of commonsense here, rather than disciplinary balance.  I'm arguing what I accept is quixotic in current circumstances, that each of the disciplines might seek to ameliorate their own biases to some extent, might encourage their practitioners to understand their own biases and allow for them a bit better.  

I doubt Kieren Healy would argue that, but the passage I quoted does point to the failure of &lt;em&gt;each&lt;/em&gt; of the disciplines and of the disciplines together as missing the important minutiae of institutional design. 

I don't fancy the idea of some other discipline squaring the circle and somehow injecting that into the mix to solve the problem.  I don't think it would succeed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark, </p>
<p>I&#8217;m arguing for a kind of vigilance of commonsense here, rather than disciplinary balance.  I&#8217;m arguing what I accept is quixotic in current circumstances, that each of the disciplines might seek to ameliorate their own biases to some extent, might encourage their practitioners to understand their own biases and allow for them a bit better.  </p>
<p>I doubt Kieren Healy would argue that, but the passage I quoted does point to the failure of <em>each</em> of the disciplines and of the disciplines together as missing the important minutiae of institutional design. </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t fancy the idea of some other discipline squaring the circle and somehow injecting that into the mix to solve the problem.  I don&#8217;t think it would succeed.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mark Bahnisch</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/01/20/disciplinary-biases-institutional-detail-and-commonsense/#comment-226041</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Bahnisch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jan 2008 13:16:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/01/20/disciplinary-biases-institutional-detail-and-commonsense/#comment-226041</guid>
		<description>Yep, all sorts of dumb stuff can happen when a particular discipline claims ownership of a particular issue or problem.

Is there nothing in the public policy/management literature that tries to combine institutional factors with some of the other disciplinary insights? Just wondering...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep, all sorts of dumb stuff can happen when a particular discipline claims ownership of a particular issue or problem.</p>
<p>Is there nothing in the public policy/management literature that tries to combine institutional factors with some of the other disciplinary insights? Just wondering&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nicholas Gruen</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/01/20/disciplinary-biases-institutional-detail-and-commonsense/#comment-226021</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicholas Gruen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jan 2008 12:58:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/01/20/disciplinary-biases-institutional-detail-and-commonsense/#comment-226021</guid>
		<description>Jacques, re your first comment, I'm not sure why.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jacques, re your first comment, I&#8217;m not sure why.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jacques Chester</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/01/20/disciplinary-biases-institutional-detail-and-commonsense/#comment-225852</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques Chester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jan 2008 07:03:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/01/20/disciplinary-biases-institutional-detail-and-commonsense/#comment-225852</guid>
		<description>Found a link to a report:
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080105140107.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Found a link to a report:<br />
<a href="http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080105140107.htm" >http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080105140107.htm</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jacques Chester</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/01/20/disciplinary-biases-institutional-detail-and-commonsense/#comment-225849</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques Chester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jan 2008 07:01:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/01/20/disciplinary-biases-institutional-detail-and-commonsense/#comment-225849</guid>
		<description>Nick;

Regarding pharmaceuticals, apparently a recent US study found that the major pharma firms spend twice as much on advertising as they do on research, which rather undermines their argument for patent protection being required to make the whole show viable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nick;</p>
<p>Regarding pharmaceuticals, apparently a recent US study found that the major pharma firms spend twice as much on advertising as they do on research, which rather undermines their argument for patent protection being required to make the whole show viable.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
