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	<title>Comments on: Titanic Resources</title>
	<atom:link href="http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/14/titanic-resources/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/14/titanic-resources/</link>
	<description></description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 04:15:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Club Troppo &#187; It&#8217;s Time for Intersolar Space</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/14/titanic-resources/#comment-244638</link>
		<dc:creator>Club Troppo &#187; It&#8217;s Time for Intersolar Space</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 11:32:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/14/titanic-resources/#comment-244638</guid>
		<description>[...] now mused out loud here at Troppo about orbital solar power and some of the astounding bounty of resources available in the solar system. Time for a bit more musing on some legal and economic aspects of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] now mused out loud here at Troppo about orbital solar power and some of the astounding bounty of resources available in the solar system. Time for a bit more musing on some legal and economic aspects of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Club Troppo &#187; Missing Link Daily</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/14/titanic-resources/#comment-239635</link>
		<dc:creator>Club Troppo &#187; Missing Link Daily</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 04:13:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/14/titanic-resources/#comment-239635</guid>
		<description>[...] Chester is thinking of solutions for the many problems humanity will face when moving off the Earth, though I have to admit [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Chester is thinking of solutions for the many problems humanity will face when moving off the Earth, though I have to admit [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jacques Chester</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/14/titanic-resources/#comment-239415</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques Chester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Feb 2008 14:27:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/14/titanic-resources/#comment-239415</guid>
		<description>tigtog;

It could go either way -- it'll come down to cost and ownership. I don't think Mars will go past being a tourist destination. Anything worth mining is easier to get from the asteroid belt.

Still, it could be done, and Titan's methane would make it a lot more doable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tigtog;</p>
<p>It could go either way &#8212; it&#8217;ll come down to cost and ownership. I don&#8217;t think Mars will go past being a tourist destination. Anything worth mining is easier to get from the asteroid belt.</p>
<p>Still, it could be done, and Titan&#8217;s methane would make it a lot more doable.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/14/titanic-resources/#comment-239342</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Feb 2008 10:40:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/14/titanic-resources/#comment-239342</guid>
		<description>I was fine with exploited. With any luck it'd be by me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was fine with exploited. With any luck it&#8217;d be by me.</p>
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		<title>By: tigtog</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/14/titanic-resources/#comment-239320</link>
		<dc:creator>tigtog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Feb 2008 09:15:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/14/titanic-resources/#comment-239320</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Mars will probably never be terraformed. Much cheaper to mass produce o’neill style colonies.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

True.  Mars will probably be exploited for what can be dug up from the regolith and rocks though.  It might be more long-term efficient (on a centuries scale) to use terraforming with hydrocarbon mass addition to at least build up the atmosphere sufficiently that people working there only need pressure suits instead of full spacesuits.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Mars will probably never be terraformed. Much cheaper to mass produce o’neill style colonies.</p></blockquote>
<p>True.  Mars will probably be exploited for what can be dug up from the regolith and rocks though.  It might be more long-term efficient (on a centuries scale) to use terraforming with hydrocarbon mass addition to at least build up the atmosphere sufficiently that people working there only need pressure suits instead of full spacesuits.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacques Chester</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/14/titanic-resources/#comment-238353</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques Chester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Feb 2008 01:38:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/14/titanic-resources/#comment-238353</guid>
		<description>gilmae;

Titan is one such source but is not the only one. But it's the biggest so far the we could get at relatively easily.

As for water, that's part of the point. Once you orbital colonies and orbital solar it becomes industrially trivial to extract oxygen from moonrock and regolith. But the moon has just about zero carbon, hydrogen or nitrogen. That's why you need to look further afield. When you have methane and oxygen, you can create water in situ (amongst other things).

What is most likely is that asteroids will be mined for hydrocarbons first, with Titan perhaps coming later.

Compared to lifting water or oil out of Earth's gravity well, crossing the solar system is actually cheaper in dollars and energy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>gilmae;</p>
<p>Titan is one such source but is not the only one. But it&#8217;s the biggest so far the we could get at relatively easily.</p>
<p>As for water, that&#8217;s part of the point. Once you orbital colonies and orbital solar it becomes industrially trivial to extract oxygen from moonrock and regolith. But the moon has just about zero carbon, hydrogen or nitrogen. That&#8217;s why you need to look further afield. When you have methane and oxygen, you can create water in situ (amongst other things).</p>
<p>What is most likely is that asteroids will be mined for hydrocarbons first, with Titan perhaps coming later.</p>
<p>Compared to lifting water or oil out of Earth&#8217;s gravity well, crossing the solar system is actually cheaper in dollars and energy.</p>
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		<title>By: gilmae</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/14/titanic-resources/#comment-238164</link>
		<dc:creator>gilmae</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 13:42:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/14/titanic-resources/#comment-238164</guid>
		<description>The again, Randall Munroe wants to solve our propulsion issues with &lt;a href="http://blag.xkcd.com/2008/02/15/the-laser-elevator/" rel="nofollow"&gt;lasers&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The again, Randall Munroe wants to solve our propulsion issues with <a href="http://blag.xkcd.com/2008/02/15/the-laser-elevator/" >lasers</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: gilmae</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/14/titanic-resources/#comment-238160</link>
		<dc:creator>gilmae</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 13:22:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/14/titanic-resources/#comment-238160</guid>
		<description>We go to Titan to construct a fantastically complex industrial site to extract hydrocarbons in order to ship them back to Mars or the Moon or artificial platforms - I suggest the Moon personally, it'd be cheaper - so we can use them as feedstock for biomass.

Hmm.

Don't get me wrong, I love the idea, but it seems horrendously complicated and expensive. It might even turn out cheaper to work out a way to do it locally. Especially since I suspect whatever craft we have capable of hooning around the solar system will be quite busy indeed finding water for the people doing the colonisation/industrialisation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We go to Titan to construct a fantastically complex industrial site to extract hydrocarbons in order to ship them back to Mars or the Moon or artificial platforms - I suggest the Moon personally, it&#8217;d be cheaper - so we can use them as feedstock for biomass.</p>
<p>Hmm.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t get me wrong, I love the idea, but it seems horrendously complicated and expensive. It might even turn out cheaper to work out a way to do it locally. Especially since I suspect whatever craft we have capable of hooning around the solar system will be quite busy indeed finding water for the people doing the colonisation/industrialisation.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacques Chester</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/14/titanic-resources/#comment-238074</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques Chester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 08:32:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/14/titanic-resources/#comment-238074</guid>
		<description>tigtog;

Mars will probably never be terraformed. Much cheaper to mass produce o'neill style colonies. Much more practical too: terraforming could take decades or centuries, would cost a bomb, only double available living space and doom people who are raised on Mars to stay there. Oh, and it's at the bottom of a gravity well and is not very accessible from Earth compared to the moon or the asteroid belt.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>tigtog;</p>
<p>Mars will probably never be terraformed. Much cheaper to mass produce o&#8217;neill style colonies. Much more practical too: terraforming could take decades or centuries, would cost a bomb, only double available living space and doom people who are raised on Mars to stay there. Oh, and it&#8217;s at the bottom of a gravity well and is not very accessible from Earth compared to the moon or the asteroid belt.</p>
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		<title>By: tigtog</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/14/titanic-resources/#comment-238066</link>
		<dc:creator>tigtog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 08:07:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/14/titanic-resources/#comment-238066</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;In any case, somebody will have to mine Titan to get those hydrocarbons to where they’re wanted, and I’ll take bets that it will be done for profit.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Probably in order to terraform Mars as a commercial colonial enterprise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>In any case, somebody will have to mine Titan to get those hydrocarbons to where they’re wanted, and I’ll take bets that it will be done for profit.</p></blockquote>
<p>Probably in order to terraform Mars as a commercial colonial enterprise.</p>
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		<title>By: Chade</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/14/titanic-resources/#comment-238013</link>
		<dc:creator>Chade</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 05:07:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/14/titanic-resources/#comment-238013</guid>
		<description>I was thinking more of Culture Orbitals...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was thinking more of Culture Orbitals&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Parish</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/14/titanic-resources/#comment-237974</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Parish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 02:01:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/14/titanic-resources/#comment-237974</guid>
		<description>&lt;img src="http://farm1.static.flickr.com/155/411622616_cf25acb531_m.jpg" /&gt;

Well, you can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.  Exterminate!













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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img src="http://farm1.static.flickr.com/155/411622616_cf25acb531_m.jpg" /></p>
<p>Well, you can&#8217;t make an omelette without breaking a few eggs.  Exterminate!</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Bath</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/14/titanic-resources/#comment-237952</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Bath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Feb 2008 01:30:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/14/titanic-resources/#comment-237952</guid>
		<description>I wonder what solar energy fans would think of the ultimate commitment to making the most of our sun ... the &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyson_sphere" rel="nofollow"&gt;Dyson Sphere&lt;/a&gt;, which requires dismantling entire planets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wonder what solar energy fans would think of the ultimate commitment to making the most of our sun &#8230; the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dyson_sphere" >Dyson Sphere</a>, which requires dismantling entire planets.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Miles</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/14/titanic-resources/#comment-237917</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Miles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2008 23:41:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/14/titanic-resources/#comment-237917</guid>
		<description>JC, the hydrocarbons on Titan are very simple (mostly methane and ethane) relative to the hydrocarbons on earth due to them being formed from simple chemical reactions, whereas the vast majority of earth's hydrocarbons (excluding natural gas) are complex because they come from the breakdown of even more complex living organisms (mostly plants).

That hydrocarbons can be generated from natural sources has been known for a long time and does not to support the pseudoscientific abiotic oilers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JC, the hydrocarbons on Titan are very simple (mostly methane and ethane) relative to the hydrocarbons on earth due to them being formed from simple chemical reactions, whereas the vast majority of earth&#8217;s hydrocarbons (excluding natural gas) are complex because they come from the breakdown of even more complex living organisms (mostly plants).</p>
<p>That hydrocarbons can be generated from natural sources has been known for a long time and does not to support the pseudoscientific abiotic oilers.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacques Chester</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/14/titanic-resources/#comment-237905</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques Chester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2008 22:42:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/14/titanic-resources/#comment-237905</guid>
		<description>dr faustus -- it presumes that fusion is a going concern. And if you've got an industrial base on the moon, that harsh mistress, you're most of the way to orbital solar power anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dr faustus &#8212; it presumes that fusion is a going concern. And if you&#8217;ve got an industrial base on the moon, that harsh mistress, you&#8217;re most of the way to orbital solar power anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: dr faustus</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/14/titanic-resources/#comment-237900</link>
		<dc:creator>dr faustus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2008 22:28:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/14/titanic-resources/#comment-237900</guid>
		<description>How about something a bit closer to home - the abundance of &lt;a href="http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/helium3_000630.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;He3 on the moon&lt;/a&gt;. The article notes that, due to the amount of energy it produces, its worth something like $3billion a ton, and there may be as much as one million tons on the moon.

All we need to do is set up a convict colony there and build a could of great big rail guns to toss the mined He3 down into Earth's gravity well. Should be fine, as long as they don't plan a rebellion with the aide of a self-aware computer...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about something a bit closer to home - the abundance of <a href="http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/helium3_000630.html" >He3 on the moon</a>. The article notes that, due to the amount of energy it produces, its worth something like $3billion a ton, and there may be as much as one million tons on the moon.</p>
<p>All we need to do is set up a convict colony there and build a could of great big rail guns to toss the mined He3 down into Earth&#8217;s gravity well. Should be fine, as long as they don&#8217;t plan a rebellion with the aide of a self-aware computer&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: NPOV</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/14/titanic-resources/#comment-237851</link>
		<dc:creator>NPOV</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2008 20:12:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/14/titanic-resources/#comment-237851</guid>
		<description>There almost certainly is abiotic oil on Earth too, just not that we can extract economically with current technology.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There almost certainly is abiotic oil on Earth too, just not that we can extract economically with current technology.</p>
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		<title>By: Jc</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/14/titanic-resources/#comment-237722</link>
		<dc:creator>Jc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2008 15:21:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/14/titanic-resources/#comment-237722</guid>
		<description>A&lt;blockquote&gt;n artist's imagination of Saturn's largest moon Titan
	
Titan’s surface organics surpass oil reserves on Earth
 
13 February 2008
Saturn’s orange moon Titan has hundreds of times more liquid hydrocarbons than all the known oil and natural gas reserves on Earth, according to new Cassini data&lt;/blockquote&gt;


Wtf. I have been lead to believe that our hydrocarbons like oil comes from dead dinosuars and organic matter and that ambiotic theory was crap. It isn't?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A<br />
<blockquote>n artist&#8217;s imagination of Saturn&#8217;s largest moon Titan</p>
<p>Titan’s surface organics surpass oil reserves on Earth</p>
<p>13 February 2008<br />
Saturn’s orange moon Titan has hundreds of times more liquid hydrocarbons than all the known oil and natural gas reserves on Earth, according to new Cassini data</p></blockquote>
<p>Wtf. I have been lead to believe that our hydrocarbons like oil comes from dead dinosuars and organic matter and that ambiotic theory was crap. It isn&#8217;t?</p>
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		<title>By: Jacques Chester</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/14/titanic-resources/#comment-237562</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques Chester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2008 08:49:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/14/titanic-resources/#comment-237562</guid>
		<description>Nah, it's OK. I got a similar bit of stick when I praised the 50th anniversary of Sputnik -- from my own side of the political fence. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nah, it&#8217;s OK. I got a similar bit of stick when I praised the 50th anniversary of Sputnik &#8212; from my own side of the political fence. <img src='http://clubtroppo.com.au/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: conrad</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/14/titanic-resources/#comment-237558</link>
		<dc:creator>conrad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 Feb 2008 08:46:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/14/titanic-resources/#comment-237558</guid>
		<description>Sorry Jc, I was just teasing, but I certainly agree with you on the second (if we ever get there, that is!).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry Jc, I was just teasing, but I certainly agree with you on the second (if we ever get there, that is!).</p>
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