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	<title>Comments on: More on Unemployment</title>
	<atom:link href="http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/22/more-on-unemployment/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/22/more-on-unemployment/</link>
	<description>Fearlessly dispensing political, legal and economic analysis (and some whimsy) since 2002</description>
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		<title>By: Fred Argy</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/22/more-on-unemployment/#comment-241367</link>
		<dc:creator>Fred Argy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Feb 2008 21:09:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/22/more-on-unemployment/#comment-241367</guid>
		<description>Conrad, I agree that our immigration policy (long term and 457 work visas) has increased the elasticity of labour supply and this has reinforced the flexibility of Australia&#039;s labour market and helped to restrain wage growth and holddown the NAIRU. The same immigration policy will continue under Rudd. 

I also agree that immigration is adding to housing inflation and it is here (especially in the rental market) that one sees a genuine example of &quot;demand pull&quot; at work, but this is a specific problem that requires a specific solution rather than a macroeconomic onslaught.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Conrad, I agree that our immigration policy (long term and 457 work visas) has increased the elasticity of labour supply and this has reinforced the flexibility of Australia&#8217;s labour market and helped to restrain wage growth and holddown the NAIRU. The same immigration policy will continue under Rudd. </p>
<p>I also agree that immigration is adding to housing inflation and it is here (especially in the rental market) that one sees a genuine example of &#8220;demand pull&#8221; at work, but this is a specific problem that requires a specific solution rather than a macroeconomic onslaught.</p>
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		<title>By: sdfc</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/22/more-on-unemployment/#comment-241192</link>
		<dc:creator>sdfc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Feb 2008 08:44:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/22/more-on-unemployment/#comment-241192</guid>
		<description>Wages increased  4.0% over the past year did they?  I suppose thats what the wage price index says (4.2%).  

 It may come as a surprise to you but the composition of society is not uniform and not everybody is in the same bargaining position.  As far as I see it, in a tight labour market the only way policies such as workchoices  can keep a lid on wage inflation, as its proponents contend, is by removing some of the protections afforded to the most vulnerable members of society.  

Of course we can talk about productivity trade offs but that was happening pre-workchoices.  Excluding the annual reviews of the minimum wage we havent had a centralised wage system since 1993.

Im sorry but I have little sympathy for Tony Abbott.   After all he had little sympathy for the elementary production and service workers of this world when he was out championing the brave new world of workplace relations.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wages increased  4.0% over the past year did they?  I suppose thats what the wage price index says (4.2%).  </p>
<p> It may come as a surprise to you but the composition of society is not uniform and not everybody is in the same bargaining position.  As far as I see it, in a tight labour market the only way policies such as workchoices  can keep a lid on wage inflation, as its proponents contend, is by removing some of the protections afforded to the most vulnerable members of society.  </p>
<p>Of course we can talk about productivity trade offs but that was happening pre-workchoices.  Excluding the annual reviews of the minimum wage we havent had a centralised wage system since 1993.</p>
<p>Im sorry but I have little sympathy for Tony Abbott.   After all he had little sympathy for the elementary production and service workers of this world when he was out championing the brave new world of workplace relations.</p>
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		<title>By: Sinclair Davidson</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/22/more-on-unemployment/#comment-241132</link>
		<dc:creator>Sinclair Davidson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Feb 2008 05:09:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/22/more-on-unemployment/#comment-241132</guid>
		<description>Conrad - from your link
&lt;blockquote&gt;Employers in Singapore (55%), New Zealand (40%), and Australia (38%) are experiencing wage inflation the most due to increased competition for available professional talent.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Price going up to reflect a shortage is not inflation - that&#039;s how the system is supposed to work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Conrad &#8211; from your link</p>
<blockquote><p>Employers in Singapore (55%), New Zealand (40%), and Australia (38%) are experiencing wage inflation the most due to increased competition for available professional talent.</p></blockquote>
<p>Price going up to reflect a shortage is not inflation &#8211; that&#8217;s how the system is supposed to work.</p>
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		<title>By: conrad</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/22/more-on-unemployment/#comment-241073</link>
		<dc:creator>conrad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Feb 2008 02:47:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/22/more-on-unemployment/#comment-241073</guid>
		<description>SD -- I don&#039;t see why you think a decentralized wage bargaining system will you save you from wage inflation. Its again a problem in HK (although nothing like the problems of the early 90s -- a good example of wage inflation despite low unionization and decentralized bargaining), although I think they have been saved by increases productivity so far. A quick search around the web shows that at least for professional wages (not generally unionized) wage inflation is becoming a world-wide problem. For example, a quick web search gets to web pages like this:

http://www.apegnb.ca/index.php?option=com_content&amp;task=view&amp;id=76&amp;Itemid=2

Maybe I&#039;m pessimistic (or perhaps I&#039;m in the wrong profession :) ) but I can&#039;t see how these types of shortages are not going to lead to wage inflation, which is only going to be moderated by either a recession caused by our government or external forces (like the US), especially given the aging workforce (i.e, fewer professionals). Or is it the case that I am incorrectly assuming that increases in professsional wages have less effect than increases from other sectors and that they don&#039;t flow on to other groups?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SD &#8212; I don&#8217;t see why you think a decentralized wage bargaining system will you save you from wage inflation. Its again a problem in HK (although nothing like the problems of the early 90s &#8212; a good example of wage inflation despite low unionization and decentralized bargaining), although I think they have been saved by increases productivity so far. A quick search around the web shows that at least for professional wages (not generally unionized) wage inflation is becoming a world-wide problem. For example, a quick web search gets to web pages like this:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.apegnb.ca/index.php?option=com_content&#038;task=view&#038;id=76&#038;Itemid=2">http://www.apegnb.ca/index.php?option=com_content&#038;task=view&#038;id=76&#038;Itemid=2</a></p>
<p>Maybe I&#8217;m pessimistic (or perhaps I&#8217;m in the wrong profession :) ) but I can&#8217;t see how these types of shortages are not going to lead to wage inflation, which is only going to be moderated by either a recession caused by our government or external forces (like the US), especially given the aging workforce (i.e, fewer professionals). Or is it the case that I am incorrectly assuming that increases in professsional wages have less effect than increases from other sectors and that they don&#8217;t flow on to other groups?</p>
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		<title>By: Sinclair Davidson</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/22/more-on-unemployment/#comment-241047</link>
		<dc:creator>Sinclair Davidson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Feb 2008 00:13:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/22/more-on-unemployment/#comment-241047</guid>
		<description>Very minor quibble; union coverage is much greater than union membership, but the general point &#039;the mechanism by which this will affect wages in a low-unionized and decentralized wage bargaining system is far from clear&#039; is still largely correct. As long as the wage bargaining system remains decentralised I can&#039;t see how wages could generate macro problems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very minor quibble; union coverage is much greater than union membership, but the general point &#8216;the mechanism by which this will affect wages in a low-unionized and decentralized wage bargaining system is far from clear&#8217; is still largely correct. As long as the wage bargaining system remains decentralised I can&#8217;t see how wages could generate macro problems.</p>
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		<title>By: Jc</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/22/more-on-unemployment/#comment-240904</link>
		<dc:creator>Jc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 15:04:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/22/more-on-unemployment/#comment-240904</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;the only thing I see it doing was to place the brunt of wage restraint on the most vulnerable members of society. 
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

How so, as new jobs went gangbusters over the period. We still have the old IR laws and wages rose 4% for the past year.


&lt;blockquote&gt;I noticed on the telly the other night that Tony Abbott wasnt too pleased about being asked to bear the same burden.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

No one should be asked to bear any burden over wage negotiations. A person should get the maximum he can negotiate without having to be told by an elected official they need to show restraint.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>the only thing I see it doing was to place the brunt of wage restraint on the most vulnerable members of society.
</p></blockquote>
<p>How so, as new jobs went gangbusters over the period. We still have the old IR laws and wages rose 4% for the past year.</p>
<blockquote><p>I noticed on the telly the other night that Tony Abbott wasnt too pleased about being asked to bear the same burden.</p></blockquote>
<p>No one should be asked to bear any burden over wage negotiations. A person should get the maximum he can negotiate without having to be told by an elected official they need to show restraint.</p>
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		<title>By: sdfc</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/22/more-on-unemployment/#comment-240888</link>
		<dc:creator>sdfc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 13:10:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/22/more-on-unemployment/#comment-240888</guid>
		<description>Higher inflation begets higher inflation.  Higher inflation is here and needs to be dealth with now.  Any cash rate increases can just as easily be reversed.  When circumstances change policy will change.  

Right now however monetary policy is loose and needs to be tightened. Just take a look at M3 growth.

As for workchoices, the only thing I see it doing was to place the brunt of wage restraint on the most vulnerable members of society.  I noticed on the telly the other night that Tony Abbott wasn&#039;t too pleased about being asked to bear the same burden.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Higher inflation begets higher inflation.  Higher inflation is here and needs to be dealth with now.  Any cash rate increases can just as easily be reversed.  When circumstances change policy will change.  </p>
<p>Right now however monetary policy is loose and needs to be tightened. Just take a look at M3 growth.</p>
<p>As for workchoices, the only thing I see it doing was to place the brunt of wage restraint on the most vulnerable members of society.  I noticed on the telly the other night that Tony Abbott wasn&#8217;t too pleased about being asked to bear the same burden.</p>
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		<title>By: Jc</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/22/more-on-unemployment/#comment-240796</link>
		<dc:creator>Jc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 08:16:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/22/more-on-unemployment/#comment-240796</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The second issue raised by Turnbull was even more challenging  how to address the geographic and regional imbalances in employment opportunities and the insensitivity of monetary policy to such imbalances. Again, this is a good question which Treasury should ponder about when it advises Swan on the structure of fiscal spending.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

We live interesting times. It&#039;s going to be very interesting to see what gillard comes up with that allows for regional wage differentiation when the state apparatus that used to do that has been basically knocked out of the ballpark by the previous government. I can&#039;t see how they can possibly manage this under a federalized award system and not allow the market to sort it out without truly screwing it all up.

Fred, monetary policy can&#039;t be used to figure this stuff out. It&#039;s not that it&#039;s insensitive, it the wrong instrument. It would be like a surgeon using orthopedic tools to remove a gallbladder with a surgical saw and drill. Blood would be splattering everyhwhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The second issue raised by Turnbull was even more challenging  how to address the geographic and regional imbalances in employment opportunities and the insensitivity of monetary policy to such imbalances. Again, this is a good question which Treasury should ponder about when it advises Swan on the structure of fiscal spending.</p></blockquote>
<p>We live interesting times. It&#8217;s going to be very interesting to see what gillard comes up with that allows for regional wage differentiation when the state apparatus that used to do that has been basically knocked out of the ballpark by the previous government. I can&#8217;t see how they can possibly manage this under a federalized award system and not allow the market to sort it out without truly screwing it all up.</p>
<p>Fred, monetary policy can&#8217;t be used to figure this stuff out. It&#8217;s not that it&#8217;s insensitive, it the wrong instrument. It would be like a surgeon using orthopedic tools to remove a gallbladder with a surgical saw and drill. Blood would be splattering everyhwhere.</p>
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		<title>By: conrad</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/22/more-on-unemployment/#comment-240754</link>
		<dc:creator>conrad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 06:32:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/22/more-on-unemployment/#comment-240754</guid>
		<description>&quot;While inflation expectations are rising, the mechanism by which this will affect wages in a low-unionized and decentralized wage bargaining system is far from clear&quot;

I would have thought that a lot of people lucky enough to be working in areas where there are not enough people being trained would be looking for a decent rise and probably getting it (unionized or not). I imagine this would have long ago caused a fair bit of wage inflation had we not also had record levels of skilled immigration at the same time. Of course, the downside of having record levels of immigration (especially of rich people) and moderate birth rates is that inflation is simply going pop up in other places like the housing market, which is currently going through the roof (both for sales and rentals), despite dropping in many other countries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;While inflation expectations are rising, the mechanism by which this will affect wages in a low-unionized and decentralized wage bargaining system is far from clear&#8221;</p>
<p>I would have thought that a lot of people lucky enough to be working in areas where there are not enough people being trained would be looking for a decent rise and probably getting it (unionized or not). I imagine this would have long ago caused a fair bit of wage inflation had we not also had record levels of skilled immigration at the same time. Of course, the downside of having record levels of immigration (especially of rich people) and moderate birth rates is that inflation is simply going pop up in other places like the housing market, which is currently going through the roof (both for sales and rentals), despite dropping in many other countries.</p>
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		<title>By: derrida derider</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/22/more-on-unemployment/#comment-240724</link>
		<dc:creator>derrida derider</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 04:40:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/22/more-on-unemployment/#comment-240724</guid>
		<description>Fred, I think you&#039;re spot on about the causes of inflationary pressures being badly misdiagnosed by Treasury and the RBA.  I dread that we might see another example of faulty economic theory leading to faulty policy, with very sad real-world results.

If generals always prepare for the last war, so do economists.  The obsession with potential wage cost pressures (which is what a NAIRU-based approach implies)is quite misplaced in present circumstances.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fred, I think you&#8217;re spot on about the causes of inflationary pressures being badly misdiagnosed by Treasury and the RBA.  I dread that we might see another example of faulty economic theory leading to faulty policy, with very sad real-world results.</p>
<p>If generals always prepare for the last war, so do economists.  The obsession with potential wage cost pressures (which is what a NAIRU-based approach implies)is quite misplaced in present circumstances.</p>
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		<title>By: Greg</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/22/more-on-unemployment/#comment-240676</link>
		<dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 00:39:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/02/22/more-on-unemployment/#comment-240676</guid>
		<description>Harsh?  How about a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/commandingheights/shared/minitext/ess_nixongold.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;price freeze&lt;/a&gt;?  Maybe not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Harsh?  How about a <a href="http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/commandingheights/shared/minitext/ess_nixongold.html">price freeze</a>?  Maybe not.</p>
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