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	<title>Comments on: Shopping malls: my family&#8217;s part in the world&#8217;s civic downfall</title>
	<atom:link href="http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/05/shopping-malls-my-familys-part-in-the-worlds-downfall/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/05/shopping-malls-my-familys-part-in-the-worlds-downfall/</link>
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		<title>By: Mike Pepperday</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/05/shopping-malls-my-familys-part-in-the-worlds-downfall/#comment-246338</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Pepperday</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 07:26:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/05/shopping-malls-my-familys-part-in-the-worlds-downfall/#comment-246338</guid>
		<description>One safe generalisation is that they are private property.  The management decides what will take place in them.  That excludes not only skateboards but anything of even remotely political character.  Everything has to be nice and smiley like a commercial TV channel.  

That&#039;s their right.  It&#039;s private property.  Just as once upon a time the king owned the streets and decreed what happened there.  

The shopping mall is effectively a privatisation of public space and a dumbing-down of social interaction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One safe generalisation is that they are private property.  The management decides what will take place in them.  That excludes not only skateboards but anything of even remotely political character.  Everything has to be nice and smiley like a commercial TV channel.  </p>
<p>That&#8217;s their right.  It&#8217;s private property.  Just as once upon a time the king owned the streets and decreed what happened there.  </p>
<p>The shopping mall is effectively a privatisation of public space and a dumbing-down of social interaction.</p>
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		<title>By: James Farrell</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/05/shopping-malls-my-familys-part-in-the-worlds-downfall/#comment-246138</link>
		<dc:creator>James Farrell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 21:35:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/05/shopping-malls-my-familys-part-in-the-worlds-downfall/#comment-246138</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s very hard to generalise about shopping malls. Muchl depends on the interface with the street and surrounding buildings. Parramatta Westfield is a hideous great box, sealed off from the rest of the suburb. The fortress-like concrete walls are an eyesore from any direction, and make the whole area pedestrian unfriendly. Parking and shopping is quite convenient, but eating in windowless cafes is oppressive. By contrast, Castle Towers, two suburbs away in Castle Hill, opens onto cafe-lined courtyards which in turn lead into the original street, integrating mall and &#039;strip&#039; shopping, and keeping the latter alive. The external architecture is kitsch, but a lot better than the box format of Parramatta. I quite like Birkenhead Point too, though it&#039;s not on the same scale as the others, so isn&#039;t strictly comparable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s very hard to generalise about shopping malls. Muchl depends on the interface with the street and surrounding buildings. Parramatta Westfield is a hideous great box, sealed off from the rest of the suburb. The fortress-like concrete walls are an eyesore from any direction, and make the whole area pedestrian unfriendly. Parking and shopping is quite convenient, but eating in windowless cafes is oppressive. By contrast, Castle Towers, two suburbs away in Castle Hill, opens onto cafe-lined courtyards which in turn lead into the original street, integrating mall and &#8216;strip&#8217; shopping, and keeping the latter alive. The external architecture is kitsch, but a lot better than the box format of Parramatta. I quite like Birkenhead Point too, though it&#8217;s not on the same scale as the others, so isn&#8217;t strictly comparable.</p>
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		<title>By: David Rubie</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/05/shopping-malls-my-familys-part-in-the-worlds-downfall/#comment-246111</link>
		<dc:creator>David Rubie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 19:38:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/05/shopping-malls-my-familys-part-in-the-worlds-downfall/#comment-246111</guid>
		<description>From &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.economist.com/world/na/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10278717&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Economist article&lt;/a&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;There is one crucial difference. Gruen wanted to improve upon the American city centre by modernising and Europeanising it. Mr Caruso, by contrast, looks to the past. He has tried to re-create a kind of prelapsarian downtown where there is no crime or homelessness. His romantic evocations of city centres are possible only because people have forgotten what downtowns used to be like. And they have forgotten, of course, largely because of the suburban shopping malls that Gruen built. It was necessary to kill the American city centre before bringing it back to life.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

We&#039;ve lived out here in the boonies for about 3 years now, and set foot in basically no enclosed shopping malls in that time.  A quick trip to Brisbane over the holidays had us trawling one of the big shopping centres.  I can&#039;t tell you just how *oppressive* they feel now.  Dark, crowded, filled with shops full of stuff that probably sounds great when you buy the franchise, but ends up gathering dust either in your shop or in your customers home (sports memorabilia tat? Tie rack? King of knives?  Gah!).  The car park outside seemed like a genuine breath of fresh air.

Caruso mentioned above seems about 30 years behind the times - there are lots of small Australian towns where the main street has been outside-mallified by paving over the road and expelling cars.  At least you can see the sky every now and again.  And, yes, the occasional homeless person causing the white middle class ladies to clutch their precious purchases closer to their chests.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From <a href="http://www.economist.com/world/na/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10278717">The Economist article</a></p>
<blockquote><p>There is one crucial difference. Gruen wanted to improve upon the American city centre by modernising and Europeanising it. Mr Caruso, by contrast, looks to the past. He has tried to re-create a kind of prelapsarian downtown where there is no crime or homelessness. His romantic evocations of city centres are possible only because people have forgotten what downtowns used to be like. And they have forgotten, of course, largely because of the suburban shopping malls that Gruen built. It was necessary to kill the American city centre before bringing it back to life.</p></blockquote>
<p>We&#8217;ve lived out here in the boonies for about 3 years now, and set foot in basically no enclosed shopping malls in that time.  A quick trip to Brisbane over the holidays had us trawling one of the big shopping centres.  I can&#8217;t tell you just how *oppressive* they feel now.  Dark, crowded, filled with shops full of stuff that probably sounds great when you buy the franchise, but ends up gathering dust either in your shop or in your customers home (sports memorabilia tat? Tie rack? King of knives?  Gah!).  The car park outside seemed like a genuine breath of fresh air.</p>
<p>Caruso mentioned above seems about 30 years behind the times &#8211; there are lots of small Australian towns where the main street has been outside-mallified by paving over the road and expelling cars.  At least you can see the sky every now and again.  And, yes, the occasional homeless person causing the white middle class ladies to clutch their precious purchases closer to their chests.</p>
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		<title>By: CL's blog is back</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/05/shopping-malls-my-familys-part-in-the-worlds-downfall/#comment-246108</link>
		<dc:creator>CL's blog is back</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 19:18:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/05/shopping-malls-my-familys-part-in-the-worlds-downfall/#comment-246108</guid>
		<description>would that be your gruenfather then?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>would that be your gruenfather then?</p>
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		<title>By: Amanda</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/05/shopping-malls-my-familys-part-in-the-worlds-downfall/#comment-246097</link>
		<dc:creator>Amanda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 18:51:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/05/shopping-malls-my-familys-part-in-the-worlds-downfall/#comment-246097</guid>
		<description>Fyodor said what I was going to.   The Economist Chrissie edn was great reading.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fyodor said what I was going to.   The Economist Chrissie edn was great reading.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Soon</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/05/shopping-malls-my-familys-part-in-the-worlds-downfall/#comment-246078</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Soon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 18:21:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/05/shopping-malls-my-familys-part-in-the-worlds-downfall/#comment-246078</guid>
		<description>A tragedy indeed. He invents a great thing and fails to appreciate how great it is.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A tragedy indeed. He invents a great thing and fails to appreciate how great it is.</p>
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		<title>By: Fyodor</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/05/shopping-malls-my-familys-part-in-the-worlds-downfall/#comment-246035</link>
		<dc:creator>Fyodor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 17:38:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/05/shopping-malls-my-familys-part-in-the-worlds-downfall/#comment-246035</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s a fascinating story. The Economist ran &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.economist.com/world/na/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10278717&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;an article&lt;/a&gt; on Gruen and the rise of the shopping mall late last year. It takes a more balanced (IMO) view of the contribution of the shopping mall to American society and culture.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s a fascinating story. The Economist ran <a href="http://www.economist.com/world/na/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10278717">an article</a> on Gruen and the rise of the shopping mall late last year. It takes a more balanced (IMO) view of the contribution of the shopping mall to American society and culture.</p>
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