<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Libertarian algebra</title>
	<atom:link href="http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/20/libertarian-algebra/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/20/libertarian-algebra/</link>
	<description></description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 12:34:14 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.5.1</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: Peter Wood</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/20/libertarian-algebra/#comment-253288</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Wood</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Mar 2008 09:20:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/20/libertarian-algebra/#comment-253288</guid>
		<description>CLIMATE CHANGE = SINISTER PLOT BY SCIENTISTS TO GET RESEARCH GRANTS

The set of instances of market failure is the empty set.

SUPERMARKETS + SHOPPING MALLS = REAL CHOICE</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>CLIMATE CHANGE = SINISTER PLOT BY SCIENTISTS TO GET RESEARCH GRANTS</p>
<p>The set of instances of market failure is the empty set.</p>
<p>SUPERMARKETS + SHOPPING MALLS = REAL CHOICE</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: I am not CL</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/20/libertarian-algebra/#comment-253262</link>
		<dc:creator>I am not CL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Mar 2008 07:20:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/20/libertarian-algebra/#comment-253262</guid>
		<description>Ken,

Sol is a phony</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ken,</p>
<p>Sol is a phony</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: John Humphreys</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/20/libertarian-algebra/#comment-253063</link>
		<dc:creator>John Humphreys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 23 Mar 2008 21:29:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/20/libertarian-algebra/#comment-253063</guid>
		<description>Just when I think I understand libertarianism, it gets harder. Perhaps it would be easier if Ken (and the army of truth &#38; justice) could specify exactly who these evil doers are.

Apparently it doesn't include Jason &#38; Helen... which is strange because they seem like standard libertarians. But can I assume it does include "pommy"? He actually believes in far more government intervention than Helen &#38; Jason and is firmly on the "moderate" side.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just when I think I understand libertarianism, it gets harder. Perhaps it would be easier if Ken (and the army of truth &amp; justice) could specify exactly who these evil doers are.</p>
<p>Apparently it doesn&#8217;t include Jason &amp; Helen&#8230; which is strange because they seem like standard libertarians. But can I assume it does include &#8220;pommy&#8221;? He actually believes in far more government intervention than Helen &amp; Jason and is firmly on the &#8220;moderate&#8221; side.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: gilmae</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/20/libertarian-algebra/#comment-252496</link>
		<dc:creator>gilmae</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Mar 2008 11:46:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/20/libertarian-algebra/#comment-252496</guid>
		<description>I kinda thought it was funny when you credited libertarians with not sticking you - and presumably others - into a gender-based straight jacket only a few paragraphs after sticking whole groups of people into political-based straight jackets. It was a delicious use of irony to highlight the inherent - and implied by the placement of his tounge - bogusness of Ken's shit stirring.

I'm going to need more than a penny for that thought. Standard award for a dues-paid member of the International Order of The Sardonic, Insouciant and Allied Unions of my level - 10th, I have a saving throw vs GMB of 8 -  is at least twenty-five cents per word; and reading this is considered agreement to a standard shrink-wrap user license. I'll have my people talk to your people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I kinda thought it was funny when you credited libertarians with not sticking you - and presumably others - into a gender-based straight jacket only a few paragraphs after sticking whole groups of people into political-based straight jackets. It was a delicious use of irony to highlight the inherent - and implied by the placement of his tounge - bogusness of Ken&#8217;s shit stirring.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m going to need more than a penny for that thought. Standard award for a dues-paid member of the International Order of The Sardonic, Insouciant and Allied Unions of my level - 10th, I have a saving throw vs GMB of 8 -  is at least twenty-five cents per word; and reading this is considered agreement to a standard shrink-wrap user license. I&#8217;ll have my people talk to your people.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: skepticlawyer</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/20/libertarian-algebra/#comment-252486</link>
		<dc:creator>skepticlawyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Mar 2008 11:16:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/20/libertarian-algebra/#comment-252486</guid>
		<description>Heh heh, nice one gilmae.

A penny for your thoughts, all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Heh heh, nice one gilmae.</p>
<p>A penny for your thoughts, all.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: gilmae</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/20/libertarian-algebra/#comment-252390</link>
		<dc:creator>gilmae</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Mar 2008 02:43:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/20/libertarian-algebra/#comment-252390</guid>
		<description>Shit, &lt;a href="http://catallaxyfiles.com/?p=3484" rel="nofollow"&gt;mum's home&lt;/a&gt;!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shit, <a href="http://catallaxyfiles.com/?p=3484" >mum&#8217;s home</a>!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jason Soon</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/20/libertarian-algebra/#comment-252353</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Soon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Mar 2008 00:14:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/20/libertarian-algebra/#comment-252353</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;CO2-bedwetters &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Giving yourself away there, Herr Vogel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>CO2-bedwetters </p></blockquote>
<p>Giving yourself away there, Herr Vogel.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: A J Nock</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/20/libertarian-algebra/#comment-252331</link>
		<dc:creator>A J Nock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 23:05:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/20/libertarian-algebra/#comment-252331</guid>
		<description>Right. So the Club Troppo blokes are all these incredible stud-muffins and small-government types who are not CO2-bedwetters just never learnt how to pull the chicks. That the theory?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Right. So the Club Troppo blokes are all these incredible stud-muffins and small-government types who are not CO2-bedwetters just never learnt how to pull the chicks. That the theory?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: gilmae</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/20/libertarian-algebra/#comment-252103</link>
		<dc:creator>gilmae</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 11:06:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/20/libertarian-algebra/#comment-252103</guid>
		<description>ffs....now I have to go and re-learn all that shit again after I put so much effort into forgetting it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ffs&#8230;.now I have to go and re-learn all that shit again after I put so much effort into forgetting it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gummo Trotsky</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/20/libertarian-algebra/#comment-252049</link>
		<dc:creator>Gummo Trotsky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 09:09:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/20/libertarian-algebra/#comment-252049</guid>
		<description>Not much risk of straying that far again, Jacques. It's too much bloody work to type it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not much risk of straying that far again, Jacques. It&#8217;s too much bloody work to type it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jacques Chester</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/20/libertarian-algebra/#comment-252031</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques Chester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 07:26:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/20/libertarian-algebra/#comment-252031</guid>
		<description>I think we'll scare off the poo-flingers of all sets (ha!) if we stray into first order predicate logic and relational algebra, fellas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think we&#8217;ll scare off the poo-flingers of all sets (ha!) if we stray into first order predicate logic and relational algebra, fellas.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gummo Trotsky</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/20/libertarian-algebra/#comment-252023</link>
		<dc:creator>Gummo Trotsky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 06:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/20/libertarian-algebra/#comment-252023</guid>
		<description>Well that's that little joke completely blown:

&#8704;(leftist &#8712; left):(leftist &#8712; humorless)
&#8704;(rightist &#8712; right):(rightist &#8712; humorless)
&#8707;(centre):[&#8704;(centrist &#8712; centre):(centrist &#8713; humorless)]
(gilmae &#8712; centre) &#8756; (gilmae &#8713; humorless)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well that&#8217;s that little joke completely blown:</p>
<p>&forall;(leftist &isin; left):(leftist &isin; humorless)<br />
&forall;(rightist &isin; right):(rightist &isin; humorless)<br />
&exist;(centre):[&forall;(centrist &isin; centre):(centrist &notin; humorless)]<br />
(gilmae &isin; centre) &there4; (gilmae &notin; humorless)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gummo Trotsky</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/20/libertarian-algebra/#comment-252022</link>
		<dc:creator>Gummo Trotsky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 06:49:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/20/libertarian-algebra/#comment-252022</guid>
		<description>Oops! That would have been so much better if I'd got it right first time:

&#8704;(leftist &#8712; left):(leftist &#8712; humorless)
&#8704;(rightist &#8712; right):&#8704;(rightist &#8712; humorless)
&#8707;(centre):[&#38;forall(centrist &#38;isin centre):(centrist &#8713; humorless)]
(gilmae &#8712; centre) &#8756; (gilmae &#8713; humorless)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oops! That would have been so much better if I&#8217;d got it right first time:</p>
<p>&forall;(leftist &isin; left):(leftist &isin; humorless)<br />
&forall;(rightist &isin; right):&forall;(rightist &isin; humorless)<br />
&exist;(centre):[&amp;forall(centrist &amp;isin centre):(centrist &notin; humorless)]<br />
(gilmae &isin; centre) &there4; (gilmae &notin; humorless)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gummo Trotsky</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/20/libertarian-algebra/#comment-252021</link>
		<dc:creator>Gummo Trotsky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 06:46:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/20/libertarian-algebra/#comment-252021</guid>
		<description>Correct me if I'm wrong, gilmae, (if nothing else it will relieve a few minutes of Good Friday afternoon tedium) but what I think you're trying to demonstrate in your SQL statement is something like this:

&#8704;(leftist &#8712; left):(leftist &#8712; humorless)
&#8704;(rightist &#8712; right):&#8704;(leftist &#8712; left)
&#8707;(centre):[&#38;forall(centrist &#8712; centre):(centrist &#8713; humorless)]
(gilmae &#8712; centre) &#8756; (gilmae &#8713; humorless)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Correct me if I&#8217;m wrong, gilmae, (if nothing else it will relieve a few minutes of Good Friday afternoon tedium) but what I think you&#8217;re trying to demonstrate in your SQL statement is something like this:</p>
<p>&forall;(leftist &isin; left):(leftist &isin; humorless)<br />
&forall;(rightist &isin; right):&forall;(leftist &isin; left)<br />
&exist;(centre):[&amp;forall(centrist &isin; centre):(centrist &notin; humorless)]<br />
(gilmae &isin; centre) &there4; (gilmae &notin; humorless)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: gilmae</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/20/libertarian-algebra/#comment-252007</link>
		<dc:creator>gilmae</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 05:45:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/20/libertarian-algebra/#comment-252007</guid>
		<description>SELECT People.*, COALESCE(r.blog_name, b.blog_name, 'Has No Blog') as blog_name
FROM People
LEFT JOIN (SELECT person_id, blog_name FROM Bloggers WHERE outlook='Earnest' and hygiene='Smelly' AND is_relevant=0) l on l.person_id = People.id
RIGHT JOIN (SELECT person_id, blog_name FROM Bloggers WHERE charisma=0 AND is_shrill=1) r on r.person_id = People.id

Especially for you, Jacques.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SELECT People.*, COALESCE(r.blog_name, b.blog_name, &#8216;Has No Blog&#8217;) as blog_name<br />
FROM People<br />
LEFT JOIN (SELECT person_id, blog_name FROM Bloggers WHERE outlook=&#8217;Earnest&#8217; and hygiene=&#8217;Smelly&#8217; AND is_relevant=0) l on l.person_id = People.id<br />
RIGHT JOIN (SELECT person_id, blog_name FROM Bloggers WHERE charisma=0 AND is_shrill=1) r on r.person_id = People.id</p>
<p>Especially for you, Jacques.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gummo Trotsky</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/20/libertarian-algebra/#comment-251946</link>
		<dc:creator>Gummo Trotsky</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 00:29:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/20/libertarian-algebra/#comment-251946</guid>
		<description>Wrong again, Brendan.

The immediate issue, in all my comments from 38 on, has been the question "was pommygranate's post grossly sexist"? So far, no-one's produced a convincing, cogent argument to demonstrate that it wasn't.

&lt;blockquote&gt;... how better to resolve the concerns of individuals with egalitarian tendencies that government that is based on libertarian principles does not threaten collective action but actually enhances the legitimacy of voluntary collective action and removes the stigma of coercion from progressive thought.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Excuse me if I refrain from editing this gargantuan incoherency. All it amounts to is a statement of an obvious problem for libertarians: how do you convince people that libertarianism doesn't threaten the creation of an oppressive society where people are actively prevented from joining together to assert their common interests? Especially when libertarian algebra holds that:

collective = coercive gang of thugs.  

Of course, despite all appearances to the contrary, one shouldn't fall into the trap of thinking that every organised group of people is a collective. That is:

libertarian organisation &#8800; collective
LDP &#8800; collective (but Liberal Party = collective, ALP = worse collective, Greens = even worse collective)
corporation &#8800; collective (and trade union = almost the worst collective imaginable, if it weren't for the existence of the ACTU).

Well, that's a problem that you're just never going to solve, for reasons that will be obvious to anyone whose thinking isn't strait-jacketed by the notion that you can build a social philosophy by deductive reasoning from a set of simple axioms or abstract models of how people would behave in a "state of nature". Anyone, that is, but a libertarian.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wrong again, Brendan.</p>
<p>The immediate issue, in all my comments from 38 on, has been the question &#8220;was pommygranate&#8217;s post grossly sexist&#8221;? So far, no-one&#8217;s produced a convincing, cogent argument to demonstrate that it wasn&#8217;t.</p>
<blockquote><p>&#8230; how better to resolve the concerns of individuals with egalitarian tendencies that government that is based on libertarian principles does not threaten collective action but actually enhances the legitimacy of voluntary collective action and removes the stigma of coercion from progressive thought.</p></blockquote>
<p>Excuse me if I refrain from editing this gargantuan incoherency. All it amounts to is a statement of an obvious problem for libertarians: how do you convince people that libertarianism doesn&#8217;t threaten the creation of an oppressive society where people are actively prevented from joining together to assert their common interests? Especially when libertarian algebra holds that:</p>
<p>collective = coercive gang of thugs.  </p>
<p>Of course, despite all appearances to the contrary, one shouldn&#8217;t fall into the trap of thinking that every organised group of people is a collective. That is:</p>
<p>libertarian organisation &ne; collective<br />
LDP &ne; collective (but Liberal Party = collective, ALP = worse collective, Greens = even worse collective)<br />
corporation &ne; collective (and trade union = almost the worst collective imaginable, if it weren&#8217;t for the existence of the ACTU).</p>
<p>Well, that&#8217;s a problem that you&#8217;re just never going to solve, for reasons that will be obvious to anyone whose thinking isn&#8217;t strait-jacketed by the notion that you can build a social philosophy by deductive reasoning from a set of simple axioms or abstract models of how people would behave in a &#8220;state of nature&#8221;. Anyone, that is, but a libertarian.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Niall</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/20/libertarian-algebra/#comment-251939</link>
		<dc:creator>Niall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 00:07:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/20/libertarian-algebra/#comment-251939</guid>
		<description>Nice dis job on labelling, KP</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice dis job on labelling, KP</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kevin Rennie</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/20/libertarian-algebra/#comment-251932</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Rennie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 23:46:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/20/libertarian-algebra/#comment-251932</guid>
		<description>LIBERTARIAN PARTY = BOYS CLUB</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LIBERTARIAN PARTY = BOYS CLUB</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Brendan Halfweeg</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/20/libertarian-algebra/#comment-251767</link>
		<dc:creator>Brendan Halfweeg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 14:36:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/20/libertarian-algebra/#comment-251767</guid>
		<description>Gummo,

You take a cheap shot at Claire Wolf for expressing opinion, and a cheap shot at me for defending individualists.  Or don't individualist count in your great collective?  Aren't we being opressed by the system?  Aren't libertarians voices ignored?  Don't we qualify for your great and good sympathy?

The issue isn't whether women can identify with libertarian principles of non-violence and voluntary interaction, but how better to resolve the concerns of individuals with egalitarian tendencies that government that is based on libertarian principles does not threaten collective action but actually enhances the legitimacy of voluntary collective action and removes the stigma of coercion from progressive thought.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gummo,</p>
<p>You take a cheap shot at Claire Wolf for expressing opinion, and a cheap shot at me for defending individualists.  Or don&#8217;t individualist count in your great collective?  Aren&#8217;t we being opressed by the system?  Aren&#8217;t libertarians voices ignored?  Don&#8217;t we qualify for your great and good sympathy?</p>
<p>The issue isn&#8217;t whether women can identify with libertarian principles of non-violence and voluntary interaction, but how better to resolve the concerns of individuals with egalitarian tendencies that government that is based on libertarian principles does not threaten collective action but actually enhances the legitimacy of voluntary collective action and removes the stigma of coercion from progressive thought.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Zombie Mao</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/20/libertarian-algebra/#comment-251756</link>
		<dc:creator>Zombie Mao</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 13:50:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/03/20/libertarian-algebra/#comment-251756</guid>
		<description>I was going to add my 2 cents...but Gummo Trotsky has covered it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was going to add my 2 cents&#8230;but Gummo Trotsky has covered it.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
