Comments on: Student nipple sucking http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/02/student-nipple-sucking/ Tue, 14 Oct 2008 16:14:15 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.2 By: Vee http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/02/student-nipple-sucking/#comment-267265 Vee Thu, 01 May 2008 07:37:38 +0000 http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/02/student-nipple-sucking/#comment-267265 Certainly not the case at the university I attended. "...relegated to competing for a sole Closed Reserve copy of course notes from the uni library." This was usually the case. Certainly not the case at the university I attended.

“…relegated to competing for a sole Closed Reserve copy of course notes from the uni library.”

This was usually the case.

]]> By: Laura http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/02/student-nipple-sucking/#comment-257155 Laura Wed, 02 Apr 2008 22:19:05 +0000 http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/02/student-nipple-sucking/#comment-257155 Ken, I think you're exaggerating about the inexpensiveness of course readers and course notes. I do everything possible to organise cheap or free materials for my students but in some cases there is no option but a printed course reader which students have to buy (paying I understand for the cost of copying and the copyright fee.) At my institution it is absolutely forbidden to use WebCT / Blackboard to distribute any copyrighted material and the uni copyright officer apparently goes through the units checking. He wrote to me last year asking about the provenance of an image in my unit's pdf reading guide. We are not even allowed to link to youtube videos from webct. Only the library is allowed to make copyrighted material available via scanned pdfs on e-reserve, and there are copyright restrictions on what they can do there as well. They can't put more than one section of a work online for instance so if someone has put up a chapter of the same book you need, you have no option but to make a purchasable copy in course notes, or to put the physical book on reserve and that is when it will have to be shared among all the students taking the unit. I see students buying hundred-dollar textbooks for other disciplines but I understand the text concerned is usually the only one needed for the unit. Eng Lit students also have heavy expenses, it not being unusual to need to have your own copies of ten novels not readily available secondhand and retailing for between $20 and $30 each. I think a loans scheme for book buying is not a bad idea, especially if it means more students actually read the books they're attending university to study. Ken, I think you’re exaggerating about the inexpensiveness of course readers and course notes. I do everything possible to organise cheap or free materials for my students but in some cases there is no option but a printed course reader which students have to buy (paying I understand for the cost of copying and the copyright fee.)

At my institution it is absolutely forbidden to use WebCT / Blackboard to distribute any copyrighted material and the uni copyright officer apparently goes through the units checking. He wrote to me last year asking about the provenance of an image in my unit’s pdf reading guide. We are not even allowed to link to youtube videos from webct. Only the library is allowed to make copyrighted material available via scanned pdfs on e-reserve, and there are copyright restrictions on what they can do there as well. They can’t put more than one section of a work online for instance so if someone has put up a chapter of the same book you need, you have no option but to make a purchasable copy in course notes, or to put the physical book on reserve and that is when it will have to be shared among all the students taking the unit.

I see students buying hundred-dollar textbooks for other disciplines but I understand the text concerned is usually the only one needed for the unit. Eng Lit students also have heavy expenses, it not being unusual to need to have your own copies of ten novels not readily available secondhand and retailing for between $20 and $30 each. I think a loans scheme for book buying is not a bad idea, especially if it means more students actually read the books they’re attending university to study.

]]> By: Andrew Norton http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/02/student-nipple-sucking/#comment-257148 Andrew Norton Wed, 02 Apr 2008 21:42:31 +0000 http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/02/student-nipple-sucking/#comment-257148 It wasn't quite clear from Crosby's article how he thought this would work, but it sounded a bit like HECS as a student credit card. I agree that has problems. But there are other ways of doing this. What he is effectively calling for is a relaxing of the maximum student contribution amount. If this was done, universities could bundle services more than they do. For example, universities could simply buy the textbooks themselves and distribute them to students, with the cost built into student fees. Or they could guarantee semester-long loans for books that every student should have. It wasn’t quite clear from Crosby’s article how he thought this would work, but it sounded a bit like HECS as a student credit card. I agree that has problems. But there are other ways of doing this. What he is effectively calling for is a relaxing of the maximum student contribution amount. If this was done, universities could bundle services more than they do. For example, universities could simply buy the textbooks themselves and distribute them to students, with the cost built into student fees. Or they could guarantee semester-long loans for books that every student should have.

]]> By: Richard Green http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/02/student-nipple-sucking/#comment-257016 Richard Green Wed, 02 Apr 2008 07:20:51 +0000 http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/02/student-nipple-sucking/#comment-257016 Making the textbooks deferable would, by themselves, merely make the textbook publishers richer for no virtue on their part, especially since the high discount rates of impoverished students would make paying $200, $300 or $400 in the future all the same. So maybe this is workable if it is a bit more like the PBS. If only listed textbooks would be deferable, than unviersities and government could negotiate with publishers to both bargain the price down and prove the virtue of new editions, just like new or altered drugs on the PBS are. This gets complicated since the government is putting up the cash, but universities need to choose texts, but it could be one way of making this scheme workable. The better option would be to wait til decent displays make reading textbooks digitally practical. Making the textbooks deferable would, by themselves, merely make the textbook publishers richer for no virtue on their part, especially since the high discount rates of impoverished students would make paying $200, $300 or $400 in the future all the same.

So maybe this is workable if it is a bit more like the PBS. If only listed textbooks would be deferable, than unviersities and government could negotiate with publishers to both bargain the price down and prove the virtue of new editions, just like new or altered drugs on the PBS are.

This gets complicated since the government is putting up the cash, but universities need to choose texts, but it could be one way of making this scheme workable.

The better option would be to wait til decent displays make reading textbooks digitally practical.

]]> By: simon smith http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/02/student-nipple-sucking/#comment-257008 simon smith Wed, 02 Apr 2008 06:29:17 +0000 http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/02/student-nipple-sucking/#comment-257008 oh they're only $150? thats alright then oh they’re only $150? thats alright then

]]> By: Patrick http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/02/student-nipple-sucking/#comment-256972 Patrick Wed, 02 Apr 2008 02:57:11 +0000 http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/02/student-nipple-sucking/#comment-256972 I agree. I did fine my final two years of law without buying a single textbook - there are more copies in the library than there is demand at any time of the year except the week before the exam and frankly I probably spent more time reading them than the vast majority of students that had read them. And if you don't have a textbook you might be tempted to actually read cases! I agree. I did fine my final two years of law without buying a single textbook - there are more copies in the library than there is demand at any time of the year except the week before the exam and frankly I probably spent more time reading them than the vast majority of students that had read them.

And if you don’t have a textbook you might be tempted to actually read cases!

]]> By: The Worst of Perth http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/02/student-nipple-sucking/#comment-256969 The Worst of Perth Wed, 02 Apr 2008 02:45:56 +0000 http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/02/student-nipple-sucking/#comment-256969 Liam. This might satisfy you. http://theworstofperth.com/2008/04/01/knocker-off/ Liam. This might satisfy you.
http://theworstofperth.com/2008/04/01/knocker-off/

]]> By: Liam http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/02/student-nipple-sucking/#comment-256963 Liam Wed, 02 Apr 2008 02:17:09 +0000 http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/02/student-nipple-sucking/#comment-256963 This post did not even remotely live up to the promise of its title. Shame, KP, shame. This post did not even remotely live up to the promise of its title. Shame, KP, shame.

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