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	<title>Comments on: My kilotalk submission</title>
	<atom:link href="http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/05/my-kilotalk-submission/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/05/my-kilotalk-submission/</link>
	<description></description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 07 Sep 2008 14:37:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Sen John and Premier Joh - a tale of two FOIs &#171; Balneus</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/05/my-kilotalk-submission/#comment-296063</link>
		<dc:creator>Sen John and Premier Joh - a tale of two FOIs &#171; Balneus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 08:43:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/05/my-kilotalk-submission/#comment-296063</guid>
		<description>[...] Chester&#8217;s piece about same issue at Club Troppo - &#34;My kilotalk submission&#34; (2008-04-05), which includes &#34;Google Government&#34; should be a motto going [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Chester&#8217;s piece about same issue at Club Troppo - &quot;My kilotalk submission&quot; (2008-04-05), which includes &quot;Google Government&quot; should be a motto going [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Parish</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/05/my-kilotalk-submission/#comment-259582</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Parish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 07:06:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/05/my-kilotalk-submission/#comment-259582</guid>
		<description>It's like that on my work PC too, although I'm pretty certain it's only recently happened because i'm sure i would have noticed if it had been that way for very long.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s like that on my work PC too, although I&#8217;m pretty certain it&#8217;s only recently happened because i&#8217;m sure i would have noticed if it had been that way for very long.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Lloyd</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/05/my-kilotalk-submission/#comment-259577</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Lloyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Apr 2008 06:57:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/05/my-kilotalk-submission/#comment-259577</guid>
		<description>Jacques, Why can I only see the troppo armadillo's backside? Does anybody else have this problem?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jacques, Why can I only see the troppo armadillo&#8217;s backside? Does anybody else have this problem?</p>
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		<title>By: Austrolabe &#187; Make Talkfest 2020 Submissions Online</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/05/my-kilotalk-submission/#comment-259172</link>
		<dc:creator>Austrolabe &#187; Make Talkfest 2020 Submissions Online</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 11:26:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/05/my-kilotalk-submission/#comment-259172</guid>
		<description>[...] Troppo&#8217;s Jacque Chester has some interesting suggestions around open government.   I would add that it would be great if government started making more [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Troppo&#8217;s Jacque Chester has some interesting suggestions around open government.   I would add that it would be great if government started making more [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Small Paragraphs, Big Ideas : Tree of Knowledge</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/05/my-kilotalk-submission/#comment-258762</link>
		<dc:creator>Small Paragraphs, Big Ideas : Tree of Knowledge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Apr 2008 10:04:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/05/my-kilotalk-submission/#comment-258762</guid>
		<description>[...] Amy King&#8217;s Big Idea today which echoes the Power of Information mantra that this blog and others have been beating the drum for recently.  Question: If you could do one thing in your stream area, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Amy King&#8217;s Big Idea today which echoes the Power of Information mantra that this blog and others have been beating the drum for recently.  Question: If you could do one thing in your stream area, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Graham</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/05/my-kilotalk-submission/#comment-258734</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Apr 2008 07:47:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/05/my-kilotalk-submission/#comment-258734</guid>
		<description>If balance, like beauty, lies in the eye of the beholder, then by what criteria do I make such a judgment?
Unfortunately I don't have an defendable answer to that question. Despite these reservations, I would certainly agree that the pendulum does need a significant push in the direction of greater accountability in government - which ,of course, is meaningless without transparency.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If balance, like beauty, lies in the eye of the beholder, then by what criteria do I make such a judgment?<br />
Unfortunately I don&#8217;t have an defendable answer to that question. Despite these reservations, I would certainly agree that the pendulum does need a significant push in the direction of greater accountability in government - which ,of course, is meaningless without transparency.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacques Chester</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/05/my-kilotalk-submission/#comment-258640</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques Chester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Apr 2008 05:16:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/05/my-kilotalk-submission/#comment-258640</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Not an easily found balance let alone one that might be generally agreed upon!!&lt;/blockquote&gt;

OK, I see your point. But can we at least agree that the pendulum needs an energetic wrench in the direction of openness?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Not an easily found balance let alone one that might be generally agreed upon!!</p></blockquote>
<p>OK, I see your point. But can we at least agree that the pendulum needs an energetic wrench in the direction of openness?</p>
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		<title>By: Graham</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/05/my-kilotalk-submission/#comment-258353</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 12:21:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/05/my-kilotalk-submission/#comment-258353</guid>
		<description>"where is the evidence" asks JC 

All around you JC if you care to look. 
There are currently many "serious" issues to be reported or commented on which are only dealt with by the media (if at all) in a peripheral manner - yet we are still told of (hand)waves becoming salutes, the PM's wife fashion sense etc 
To suggest that the media (or even the serious press) would be particularly interested in issues which you (or perhaps I) may think are newsworthy is simply ingenuous. 
Though I am sympathetic to your aims, I am in the broader sense probably in the Andrew Norton camp (at least on this issue!) in that completly open government is essentially status quo government. The key must lie in finding a reasonable balance between transparency of governance and a democratically elected Goverment's capacity to pursue its policies in a flexible (but non-corrupt)manner.

Not an easily found balance let alone one that might be generally agreed upon!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;where is the evidence&#8221; asks JC </p>
<p>All around you JC if you care to look.<br />
There are currently many &#8220;serious&#8221; issues to be reported or commented on which are only dealt with by the media (if at all) in a peripheral manner - yet we are still told of (hand)waves becoming salutes, the PM&#8217;s wife fashion sense etc<br />
To suggest that the media (or even the serious press) would be particularly interested in issues which you (or perhaps I) may think are newsworthy is simply ingenuous.<br />
Though I am sympathetic to your aims, I am in the broader sense probably in the Andrew Norton camp (at least on this issue!) in that completly open government is essentially status quo government. The key must lie in finding a reasonable balance between transparency of governance and a democratically elected Goverment&#8217;s capacity to pursue its policies in a flexible (but non-corrupt)manner.</p>
<p>Not an easily found balance let alone one that might be generally agreed upon!!</p>
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		<title>By: Jacques Chester</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/05/my-kilotalk-submission/#comment-258340</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques Chester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 10:52:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/05/my-kilotalk-submission/#comment-258340</guid>
		<description>Graham;

Where's the evidence to say it won't? Right now political communication is tighter than a cat's sphincter. So we get stuck talking about people's hairdos.

Criticism and accountability are unalloyed goods. It's naive to pretend otherwise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Graham;</p>
<p>Where&#8217;s the evidence to say it won&#8217;t? Right now political communication is tighter than a cat&#8217;s sphincter. So we get stuck talking about people&#8217;s hairdos.</p>
<p>Criticism and accountability are unalloyed goods. It&#8217;s naive to pretend otherwise.</p>
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		<title>By: Graham</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/05/my-kilotalk-submission/#comment-258297</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 07:28:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/05/my-kilotalk-submission/#comment-258297</guid>
		<description>"If there's full disclosure they can actually choose to focus on the serious stuff."
Where is the evidence to think that could happen? Unfortunately,the suggestion is simply naivete of the first order.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;If there&#8217;s full disclosure they can actually choose to focus on the serious stuff.&#8221;<br />
Where is the evidence to think that could happen? Unfortunately,the suggestion is simply naivete of the first order.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacques Chester</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/05/my-kilotalk-submission/#comment-258263</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques Chester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 03:56:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/05/my-kilotalk-submission/#comment-258263</guid>
		<description>Andrew;

I think the problem with closed government is worse. When everything is strictly managed, the media will beat up any small thing for a story. If there's full disclosure they can actually choose to focus on serious stuff.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew;</p>
<p>I think the problem with closed government is worse. When everything is strictly managed, the media will beat up any small thing for a story. If there&#8217;s full disclosure they can actually choose to focus on serious stuff.</p>
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		<title>By: Andrew Norton</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/05/my-kilotalk-submission/#comment-258247</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrew Norton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Apr 2008 02:53:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/05/my-kilotalk-submission/#comment-258247</guid>
		<description>The risk with 'open government' is overly status quo government - we've seen this recently when budget proposals are leaked to generate a populist negative response. I'd be more comfortable with routine data collection being published this way than the level of disclosure being considered here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The risk with &#8216;open government&#8217; is overly status quo government - we&#8217;ve seen this recently when budget proposals are leaked to generate a populist negative response. I&#8217;d be more comfortable with routine data collection being published this way than the level of disclosure being considered here.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacques Chester</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/05/my-kilotalk-submission/#comment-258070</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques Chester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Apr 2008 12:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/05/my-kilotalk-submission/#comment-258070</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I mean the problem is in the wetware: management practices, attitudes and dedication.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Sure. That's why the whole project needs a champion of ministerial level, to stop it being put into tickbox policy hell.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I mean the problem is in the wetware: management practices, attitudes and dedication.</p></blockquote>
<p>Sure. That&#8217;s why the whole project needs a champion of ministerial level, to stop it being put into tickbox policy hell.</p>
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		<title>By: TerjeP (say tay-a)</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/05/my-kilotalk-submission/#comment-258062</link>
		<dc:creator>TerjeP (say tay-a)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Apr 2008 11:39:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/05/my-kilotalk-submission/#comment-258062</guid>
		<description>Apparently in Norway everybodies income tax return is published on the Internet. That's a little too open for my liking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apparently in Norway everybodies income tax return is published on the Internet. That&#8217;s a little too open for my liking.</p>
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		<title>By: Google Government : Tree of Knowledge</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/05/my-kilotalk-submission/#comment-258059</link>
		<dc:creator>Google Government : Tree of Knowledge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Apr 2008 11:19:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/05/my-kilotalk-submission/#comment-258059</guid>
		<description>[...] Chester has posted his submission to the Australia 2020 Summit at Club Troppo and it includes a lot of the Power of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Chester has posted his submission to the Australia 2020 Summit at Club Troppo and it includes a lot of the Power of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Bath</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/05/my-kilotalk-submission/#comment-258040</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Bath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Apr 2008 09:58:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/05/my-kilotalk-submission/#comment-258040</guid>
		<description>JC: I mean the problem is in the wetware: management practices, attitudes and dedication.  Silicon doesn't possess these .... yet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JC: I mean the problem is in the wetware: management practices, attitudes and dedication.  Silicon doesn&#8217;t possess these &#8230;. yet.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacques Chester</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/05/my-kilotalk-submission/#comment-258025</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques Chester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Apr 2008 09:29:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/05/my-kilotalk-submission/#comment-258025</guid>
		<description>Considering that both clay tablets and optronics rely on silicon, I think we can let it slide Dave.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Considering that both clay tablets and optronics rely on silicon, I think we can let it slide Dave.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Bath</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/05/my-kilotalk-submission/#comment-258024</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Bath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Apr 2008 09:28:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/05/my-kilotalk-submission/#comment-258024</guid>
		<description>That should read (typo) "clay tablets OR optical computing"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That should read (typo) &#8220;clay tablets OR optical computing&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Bath</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/05/my-kilotalk-submission/#comment-258023</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Bath</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Apr 2008 09:26:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/05/my-kilotalk-submission/#comment-258023</guid>
		<description>Andrew Norton:
The cost is absolutely minimal if documents are classified ("metadata-ed up") as they are created and/or edited.  This is particularly easy for policy documents.  Then simply buy a Google.  (Google mini for small business works at about 7c a document entry level (including the hardware!!!), and drops considerably when you buy upgrades of the number of documents it searches.  Details &lt;a href="http://www.google.com.au/enterprise/#utm_medium=et&#38;utm_source=bizsols&#38;utm_campaign=gsa" rel="nofollow"&gt;here&lt;/a&gt; . It also looks after visibility criteria.  A "Whole Of Government Google" is a no-brainer.)

And if you cannot classify a document when you create or edit it (it should take a mere minute or five, cheap compared to the hours you spend writing the darn thing), then you probably shouldn't be writing it!!!  (The "you" is the theoretical author, not you personally).

Checkout "DIRKS" at NAA.gov.au.  Agencies (and businesses) are like a paper-based library that acquires books and doesn't fill in the subject/author/title index cards as they go.  I often say "It doesn't matter if it is clay tablets of optical computing, the real information management issues never change".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew Norton:<br />
The cost is absolutely minimal if documents are classified (&#8221;metadata-ed up&#8221;) as they are created and/or edited.  This is particularly easy for policy documents.  Then simply buy a Google.  (Google mini for small business works at about 7c a document entry level (including the hardware!!!), and drops considerably when you buy upgrades of the number of documents it searches.  Details <a href="http://www.google.com.au/enterprise/#utm_medium=et&amp;utm_source=bizsols&amp;utm_campaign=gsa" >here</a> . It also looks after visibility criteria.  A &#8220;Whole Of Government Google&#8221; is a no-brainer.)</p>
<p>And if you cannot classify a document when you create or edit it (it should take a mere minute or five, cheap compared to the hours you spend writing the darn thing), then you probably shouldn&#8217;t be writing it!!!  (The &#8220;you&#8221; is the theoretical author, not you personally).</p>
<p>Checkout &#8220;DIRKS&#8221; at NAA.gov.au.  Agencies (and businesses) are like a paper-based library that acquires books and doesn&#8217;t fill in the subject/author/title index cards as they go.  I often say &#8220;It doesn&#8217;t matter if it is clay tablets of optical computing, the real information management issues never change&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacques Chester</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/05/my-kilotalk-submission/#comment-258017</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques Chester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Apr 2008 09:20:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/05/my-kilotalk-submission/#comment-258017</guid>
		<description>Andrew;

The secret is automation. A proper setup will ensure that the right documents become available in the right way. Overlaid with modern search engine technology it would make the documentary base of government highly transparent.

Such a project would involve two quite separate components: a general technology-and-policy effort to ensure that every document, every email, every spreadsheet, every database, is marked with the metadata to automate its classification and publication.

The second is to progressively bring existing documents and systems into line. That's going to be slow and expensive, but it's a once-off expense. Once it's done, you get all the benefits.

Imagine, for example, being able to do statistical analyses across raw data held by Treasury, the RBA and the ABS. Or being able to do document analyses to track the way policies formed during previous decades. Or for organisations like the CIS to have systems constantly mining government data for instances of waste.

It's not until you gather and make the cost of access very low that these things could become possible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrew;</p>
<p>The secret is automation. A proper setup will ensure that the right documents become available in the right way. Overlaid with modern search engine technology it would make the documentary base of government highly transparent.</p>
<p>Such a project would involve two quite separate components: a general technology-and-policy effort to ensure that every document, every email, every spreadsheet, every database, is marked with the metadata to automate its classification and publication.</p>
<p>The second is to progressively bring existing documents and systems into line. That&#8217;s going to be slow and expensive, but it&#8217;s a once-off expense. Once it&#8217;s done, you get all the benefits.</p>
<p>Imagine, for example, being able to do statistical analyses across raw data held by Treasury, the RBA and the ABS. Or being able to do document analyses to track the way policies formed during previous decades. Or for organisations like the CIS to have systems constantly mining government data for instances of waste.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not until you gather and make the cost of access very low that these things could become possible.</p>
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