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	<title>Comments on: A national information policy?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/17/a-national-information-policy/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/17/a-national-information-policy/</link>
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	<pubDate>Sun, 07 Sep 2008 13:30:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/17/a-national-information-policy/#comment-263573</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Apr 2008 03:46:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/17/a-national-information-policy/#comment-263573</guid>
		<description>NPOV I didn't make any claim that the hospitals would not comply.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NPOV I didn&#8217;t make any claim that the hospitals would not comply.</p>
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		<title>By: NPOV</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/17/a-national-information-policy/#comment-263572</link>
		<dc:creator>NPOV</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Apr 2008 03:39:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/17/a-national-information-policy/#comment-263572</guid>
		<description>It would only put egg on the government's face if it made it out to some grand solution that it was staking it's reputation on.
Surely there are plenty of examples of corporations voluntarily complying to standards that governments have been a key part of establishing (especially in the I.T./telecomms world).  I don't see why Nicholas' proposal is so radically different (though I'd accept there might be a weaker market incentive to be one of the early uptakers).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would only put egg on the government&#8217;s face if it made it out to some grand solution that it was staking it&#8217;s reputation on.<br />
Surely there are plenty of examples of corporations voluntarily complying to standards that governments have been a key part of establishing (especially in the I.T./telecomms world).  I don&#8217;t see why Nicholas&#8217; proposal is so radically different (though I&#8217;d accept there might be a weaker market incentive to be one of the early uptakers).</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/17/a-national-information-policy/#comment-263556</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Apr 2008 02:11:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/17/a-national-information-policy/#comment-263556</guid>
		<description>NPOV a voluntary regulation that fails to attract take-up from the target industry would leave egg on the government's face. I'd suspect that if anything was implemented it would be compulsory to begin with or would become compulsory if there was no interest.

Then what we're left with is de-facto compulsory regulation that gives us very little value. It will tell me if the hospital I plan to go to will more than likely kill me but that is something the media can tell me already. Anything qualitative from there I would have to work out with my own legwork.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>NPOV a voluntary regulation that fails to attract take-up from the target industry would leave egg on the government&#8217;s face. I&#8217;d suspect that if anything was implemented it would be compulsory to begin with or would become compulsory if there was no interest.</p>
<p>Then what we&#8217;re left with is de-facto compulsory regulation that gives us very little value. It will tell me if the hospital I plan to go to will more than likely kill me but that is something the media can tell me already. Anything qualitative from there I would have to work out with my own legwork.</p>
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		<title>By: Nicholas Gruen</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/17/a-national-information-policy/#comment-263005</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicholas Gruen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 13:24:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/17/a-national-information-policy/#comment-263005</guid>
		<description>Thanks NPOV.

You've got it.  Not very scary really.  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks NPOV.</p>
<p>You&#8217;ve got it.  Not very scary really.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin Stewart-Weeks</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/17/a-national-information-policy/#comment-262987</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Stewart-Weeks</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 11:33:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/17/a-national-information-policy/#comment-262987</guid>
		<description>People already swap information about heart surgeons and teachers and the other professionals who find public reporting of performance a bit difficult.  What Nicholas seems to be suggesting, and I broadly afree, is a way to make that inevitabole and usually informal process more systematic, predictable and therefore presumably reliable.

The UK publishes school league tables in cluding exam performance but also other dimensions.  Is that the sort of thing we mean? I like the idea of the setor or industry doing this for themselves.  I also think that movement in this direction is inevitable because citizens and customers are doing it for themselves anyway.  Governments and corporations are the laggards in this case</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>People already swap information about heart surgeons and teachers and the other professionals who find public reporting of performance a bit difficult.  What Nicholas seems to be suggesting, and I broadly afree, is a way to make that inevitabole and usually informal process more systematic, predictable and therefore presumably reliable.</p>
<p>The UK publishes school league tables in cluding exam performance but also other dimensions.  Is that the sort of thing we mean? I like the idea of the setor or industry doing this for themselves.  I also think that movement in this direction is inevitable because citizens and customers are doing it for themselves anyway.  Governments and corporations are the laggards in this case</p>
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		<title>By: NPOV</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/17/a-national-information-policy/#comment-262922</link>
		<dc:creator>NPOV</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 06:45:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/17/a-national-information-policy/#comment-262922</guid>
		<description>Um, isn't the point of Nicholas's proposal that there is no "regulation" as such, at least in the sense of a legislated requirement to publish particular information.  All he seems to be suggesting is that government can help industry groups co-ordinate in developing a common standard to report against, with the only penalty for not reporting being public suspicion that you had something to hide.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Um, isn&#8217;t the point of Nicholas&#8217;s proposal that there is no &#8220;regulation&#8221; as such, at least in the sense of a legislated requirement to publish particular information.  All he seems to be suggesting is that government can help industry groups co-ordinate in developing a common standard to report against, with the only penalty for not reporting being public suspicion that you had something to hide.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/17/a-national-information-policy/#comment-262920</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 06:32:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/17/a-national-information-policy/#comment-262920</guid>
		<description>Also regulating information available about doctors (or any service for that matter) is rather limiting. You can only provide information that is essentially boolean which removes qualifiers. It's only through consultation with your GP or possibly a friend who has had experience with the type of medical care you need that will give you any useful information.

Any answers regulation would provide will be limited at best. I would argue it would be next to useless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also regulating information available about doctors (or any service for that matter) is rather limiting. You can only provide information that is essentially boolean which removes qualifiers. It&#8217;s only through consultation with your GP or possibly a friend who has had experience with the type of medical care you need that will give you any useful information.</p>
<p>Any answers regulation would provide will be limited at best. I would argue it would be next to useless.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/17/a-national-information-policy/#comment-262916</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Apr 2008 06:22:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/17/a-national-information-policy/#comment-262916</guid>
		<description>Nicholas,

Information is really key to decisions people make with their purchases. The criticism I have of your suggestion is that the information you want to regulate is already out there.

&lt;a href="http://www.choice.com.au" rel="nofollow"&gt;Choice&lt;/a&gt; has been providing general consumer information since 1959 and Hewitt do a nationwide &lt;a href="http://was7.hewitt.com/bestemployers/anz/" rel="nofollow"&gt;survey&lt;/a&gt; of the best employers in oz. Essentially if there is a demand for it, there is a market for it. 

There isn't anything specifically available in Australia as yet for doctor ratings from patients but if there is a demand for it then I can't see why it couldn't happen. I think with medical care most people would opt for word of mouth when it comes to doctor recommendations.

In light of this I find it hard to justify any reason for any more regulation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nicholas,</p>
<p>Information is really key to decisions people make with their purchases. The criticism I have of your suggestion is that the information you want to regulate is already out there.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.choice.com.au" >Choice</a> has been providing general consumer information since 1959 and Hewitt do a nationwide <a href="http://was7.hewitt.com/bestemployers/anz/" >survey</a> of the best employers in oz. Essentially if there is a demand for it, there is a market for it. </p>
<p>There isn&#8217;t anything specifically available in Australia as yet for doctor ratings from patients but if there is a demand for it then I can&#8217;t see why it couldn&#8217;t happen. I think with medical care most people would opt for word of mouth when it comes to doctor recommendations.</p>
<p>In light of this I find it hard to justify any reason for any more regulation.</p>
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		<title>By: Nicholas Gruen</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/17/a-national-information-policy/#comment-262595</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicholas Gruen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 14:08:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/17/a-national-information-policy/#comment-262595</guid>
		<description>1.  Risk rating
2.  &lt;a href="http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/02/06/gruen-tenders-endorsed-by-house-of-representatives-standing-committee-shock-2/" rel="nofollow"&gt;Gruen Tenders&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1.  Risk rating<br />
2.  <a href="http://clubtroppo.com.au/2007/02/06/gruen-tenders-endorsed-by-house-of-representatives-standing-committee-shock-2/" >Gruen Tenders</a></p>
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		<title>By: SJ</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/17/a-national-information-policy/#comment-262590</link>
		<dc:creator>SJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 13:55:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/17/a-national-information-policy/#comment-262590</guid>
		<description>Until you set out those ways, Nick, I remain unconvinced. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Until you set out those ways, Nick, I remain unconvinced. <img src='http://clubtroppo.com.au/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Nicholas Gruen</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/17/a-national-information-policy/#comment-262588</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicholas Gruen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 13:36:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/17/a-national-information-policy/#comment-262588</guid>
		<description>Yes SJ,

It is certainly possible to stuff up mandatory disclosure especially in health. But one can deal with those problems in a range of ways.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes SJ,</p>
<p>It is certainly possible to stuff up mandatory disclosure especially in health. But one can deal with those problems in a range of ways.</p>
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		<title>By: SJ</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/17/a-national-information-policy/#comment-262566</link>
		<dc:creator>SJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:44:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/17/a-national-information-policy/#comment-262566</guid>
		<description>Disclosure is good, but the devil is in the &lt;a&gt;details.&lt;/a&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;
Dranove, David, Kessler, Daniel P., McClellan, Mark B. and Satterthwaite, Mark A., “Is More Information Better? The Effects of ‘Report Cards’ on Health Care Providers” (January 2002).

Health care report cards - public disclosure of patient health outcomes at the level of the individual physician and/or hospital - may address important informational asymmetries in markets for health care, but they may also give doctors and hospitals incentives to decline to treat more difficult, severely ill patients. Whether report cards are good for patients and for society depends on whether their financial and health benefits outweigh their costs in terms of the quantity, quality, and appropriateness of medical treatment that they induce. Using national data on Medicare patients at risk for cardiac surgery, we find that cardiac surgery report cards in New York and Pennsylvania led both to selection behavior by providers and to improved matching of patients with hospitals. On net, this led to higher levels of resource use and to worse health outcomes, particularly for sicker patients. We conclude that, at least in the short run, these report cards decreased patient and social welfare.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Disclosure is good, but the devil is in the <a>details.</a></p>
<blockquote><p>
Dranove, David, Kessler, Daniel P., McClellan, Mark B. and Satterthwaite, Mark A., “Is More Information Better? The Effects of ‘Report Cards’ on Health Care Providers” (January 2002).</p>
<p>Health care report cards - public disclosure of patient health outcomes at the level of the individual physician and/or hospital - may address important informational asymmetries in markets for health care, but they may also give doctors and hospitals incentives to decline to treat more difficult, severely ill patients. Whether report cards are good for patients and for society depends on whether their financial and health benefits outweigh their costs in terms of the quantity, quality, and appropriateness of medical treatment that they induce. Using national data on Medicare patients at risk for cardiac surgery, we find that cardiac surgery report cards in New York and Pennsylvania led both to selection behavior by providers and to improved matching of patients with hospitals. On net, this led to higher levels of resource use and to worse health outcomes, particularly for sicker patients. We conclude that, at least in the short run, these report cards decreased patient and social welfare.
</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: David Dufty</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/17/a-national-information-policy/#comment-262565</link>
		<dc:creator>David Dufty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:25:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/17/a-national-information-policy/#comment-262565</guid>
		<description>This is already happening without any government policy driving it. There is an increasing demand and use of market research and other intelligence-gathering exercises, and increasingly sophisticated methods of gathering such information. Maybe the best thing that the government can do is not get in the way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is already happening without any government policy driving it. There is an increasing demand and use of market research and other intelligence-gathering exercises, and increasingly sophisticated methods of gathering such information. Maybe the best thing that the government can do is not get in the way.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacques Chester</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/17/a-national-information-policy/#comment-262520</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques Chester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 09:13:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/17/a-national-information-policy/#comment-262520</guid>
		<description>You may have found me engaging in zero-sum thinking. But it would help to build up corporate expertise on how these sorts of transparencies can be achieved with minimal labour input -- the capital of transparency, if you like.

Has there been economic work based on the work of bodies like the ISO? Perhaps that could inform the debate; including the cautionary tale of how even the best institutions can be stacked out for commercial reasons.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You may have found me engaging in zero-sum thinking. But it would help to build up corporate expertise on how these sorts of transparencies can be achieved with minimal labour input &#8212; the capital of transparency, if you like.</p>
<p>Has there been economic work based on the work of bodies like the ISO? Perhaps that could inform the debate; including the cautionary tale of how even the best institutions can be stacked out for commercial reasons.</p>
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		<title>By: Nicholas Gruen</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/17/a-national-information-policy/#comment-262507</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicholas Gruen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 08:40:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/17/a-national-information-policy/#comment-262507</guid>
		<description>Yes, Jacques, you're right. It would be wise to be modest to start with.  

But I'm not sure why the inadequacies of the government should stop us from encouraging the elaboration of standards by those who might wish to report to them - to their own advantage and the ultimate benefit of many.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Jacques, you&#8217;re right. It would be wise to be modest to start with.  </p>
<p>But I&#8217;m not sure why the inadequacies of the government should stop us from encouraging the elaboration of standards by those who might wish to report to them - to their own advantage and the ultimate benefit of many.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacques Chester</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/17/a-national-information-policy/#comment-262497</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques Chester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 08:18:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/17/a-national-information-policy/#comment-262497</guid>
		<description>I think that government needs to get its own house in order, Nicholas, before it starts lecturing others. The many posts by myself and especially Dave Bath on the largely-ignored work of AGIMO and the NAA show that the internal market for information within government is utterly dysfunctional and largely non-existent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that government needs to get its own house in order, Nicholas, before it starts lecturing others. The many posts by myself and especially Dave Bath on the largely-ignored work of AGIMO and the NAA show that the internal market for information within government is utterly dysfunctional and largely non-existent.</p>
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