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	<title>Comments on: Missing Link Daily</title>
	<atom:link href="http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/28/missing-link-daily-50/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/28/missing-link-daily-50/</link>
	<description></description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 15:46:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: gilmae</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/28/missing-link-daily-50/#comment-266569</link>
		<dc:creator>gilmae</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 02:04:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/28/missing-link-daily-50/#comment-266569</guid>
		<description>The feed is variously attributing posts to 'rotwang' and to 'barista'.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The feed is variously attributing posts to &#8216;rotwang&#8217; and to &#8216;barista&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Helen</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/28/missing-link-daily-50/#comment-266566</link>
		<dc:creator>Helen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 01:41:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/28/missing-link-daily-50/#comment-266566</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Rotwang is on both sides of the housing price issue.&lt;/i&gt;

Unless I've missed something and he's acquired a new nickname (which is quite a good one for a cinephile who writes about urban stuff), that's Barista.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Rotwang is on both sides of the housing price issue.</i></p>
<p>Unless I&#8217;ve missed something and he&#8217;s acquired a new nickname (which is quite a good one for a cinephile who writes about urban stuff), that&#8217;s Barista.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/28/missing-link-daily-50/#comment-266339</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 07:24:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/28/missing-link-daily-50/#comment-266339</guid>
		<description>I recommend the link I posted earlier, Geoff, on that topic. It seems that many Chinese students abroad are indeed very nationalistic and have not thought to apply an overly critical analysis to their own country.

partly, this seems fuelled/facilitated by the disconnect between Western reporting of China in the West and reporting of China in China, which appears to create a sort of victim/tribal mentality. See eg reporting of the paralympian torch-bearer in Paris.

A further ingredient is that great capacity of humans to selectively auto-reinforce. Think any larva rodent writing about Australia under Howard, or any RWDB writing about progress in Iraq or climate change, or for that matter the way in which people can give credibility to Al Gore.

The Chinese are very different from us, just like us :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I recommend the link I posted earlier, Geoff, on that topic. It seems that many Chinese students abroad are indeed very nationalistic and have not thought to apply an overly critical analysis to their own country.</p>
<p>partly, this seems fuelled/facilitated by the disconnect between Western reporting of China in the West and reporting of China in China, which appears to create a sort of victim/tribal mentality. See eg reporting of the paralympian torch-bearer in Paris.</p>
<p>A further ingredient is that great capacity of humans to selectively auto-reinforce. Think any larva rodent writing about Australia under Howard, or any RWDB writing about progress in Iraq or climate change, or for that matter the way in which people can give credibility to Al Gore.</p>
<p>The Chinese are very different from us, just like us <img src='http://clubtroppo.com.au/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Geoff Honnor</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/28/missing-link-daily-50/#comment-266336</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff Honnor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 07:01:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/28/missing-link-daily-50/#comment-266336</guid>
		<description>Mao is still officially venerated in China - his face is on the banknotes - though the government is careful to frame this in an exclusively historical sense - kind of like a Chinese George Washington without the benefit of critical analysis. Study of his "political thought" has been eschewed in favour of his poetry which must be fairly depressing  for Chinese literature students. 

Others have observed that PRC students in Australia tend to be from well-connected families with strong Party ties and are unlikely to be boat-rockers.

You'd kind of hope so because the alternative explanation is that the broadening effects of a university education not to mention the development of critical faculty is greatly over-estimated. Or else they're computer studies majors....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mao is still officially venerated in China - his face is on the banknotes - though the government is careful to frame this in an exclusively historical sense - kind of like a Chinese George Washington without the benefit of critical analysis. Study of his &#8220;political thought&#8221; has been eschewed in favour of his poetry which must be fairly depressing  for Chinese literature students. </p>
<p>Others have observed that PRC students in Australia tend to be from well-connected families with strong Party ties and are unlikely to be boat-rockers.</p>
<p>You&#8217;d kind of hope so because the alternative explanation is that the broadening effects of a university education not to mention the development of critical faculty is greatly over-estimated. Or else they&#8217;re computer studies majors&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: FDB</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/28/missing-link-daily-50/#comment-266332</link>
		<dc:creator>FDB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 06:47:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/28/missing-link-daily-50/#comment-266332</guid>
		<description>Seriously, is there ANYTHING about what happened in Canberra that doesn't fit perfectly with the theory that there was ChiComm involvement? Isn't it EXACTLY the sort of thing they'd do?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seriously, is there ANYTHING about what happened in Canberra that doesn&#8217;t fit perfectly with the theory that there was ChiComm involvement? Isn&#8217;t it EXACTLY the sort of thing they&#8217;d do?</p>
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		<title>By: gilmae</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/28/missing-link-daily-50/#comment-266330</link>
		<dc:creator>gilmae</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 06:40:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/28/missing-link-daily-50/#comment-266330</guid>
		<description>I shouldn't even be making this comment because I have ceased to care enough about the link in question to hair-split - and one should never meh-and-post - but it's 16.30, the bug queue is empty, and what else is there to do while the day runs out?

I think there are a number of perfectly plausible and reasonable targets to point speculation about who organised the protests that the Chinese government. It's not that I don't think they were organised; nothing happens without organisation. Kev clearly disagrees. I shall stand my ground and continue to call Kev's decision paranoia. 

That Kev believes it is a conspiracy theory - he refers to it as such in his comments - indicates that maybe kinda he almost agrees that it is a bit paranoid.   I really do mean it in the most joshing, post-Fox-Mulder way. YMMV.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I shouldn&#8217;t even be making this comment because I have ceased to care enough about the link in question to hair-split - and one should never meh-and-post - but it&#8217;s 16.30, the bug queue is empty, and what else is there to do while the day runs out?</p>
<p>I think there are a number of perfectly plausible and reasonable targets to point speculation about who organised the protests that the Chinese government. It&#8217;s not that I don&#8217;t think they were organised; nothing happens without organisation. Kev clearly disagrees. I shall stand my ground and continue to call Kev&#8217;s decision paranoia. </p>
<p>That Kev believes it is a conspiracy theory - he refers to it as such in his comments - indicates that maybe kinda he almost agrees that it is a bit paranoid.   I really do mean it in the most joshing, post-Fox-Mulder way. YMMV.</p>
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		<title>By: FDB</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/28/missing-link-daily-50/#comment-266328</link>
		<dc:creator>FDB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 06:39:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/28/missing-link-daily-50/#comment-266328</guid>
		<description>"He’s no more a killer than George Washington"

Ask any cherry tree.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;He’s no more a killer than George Washington&#8221;</p>
<p>Ask any cherry tree.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Soon</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/28/missing-link-daily-50/#comment-266327</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Soon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 06:38:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/28/missing-link-daily-50/#comment-266327</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Chairman Mao is like Jesus to us ... He’s no more a killer than George Washington or George W Bush&lt;/blockquote&gt;


Jesus H Christ, these morons should start learning more about their country's history ... Mousy Dung is one of history's worst serial killers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Chairman Mao is like Jesus to us &#8230; He’s no more a killer than George Washington or George W Bush</p></blockquote>
<p>Jesus H Christ, these morons should start learning more about their country&#8217;s history &#8230; Mousy Dung is one of history&#8217;s worst serial killers.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Soon</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/28/missing-link-daily-50/#comment-266323</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Soon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 06:18:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/28/missing-link-daily-50/#comment-266323</guid>
		<description>Kev's theory isn't just based on paranoia, gilmae, it's based on educated plausible speculation. What do you expect him to do - bug the Chinese embassy? It does seem more plausible than not that some very sophisticated planning was involved in these demonstrations. 

And as I've related on Kev's blog and on my own open forum on Catallaxy, in the week preceding these demonstrations I actually received two mysterious phone calls in Mandarin from a total stranger who when I informed I couldn't understand Mandarin (which I can't, though I know roughly how it sounds like relative to Cantonese or Hokkien) hung up. Now this may be nothing or it may be consistent with Kev's theory but I have to admit after those 2 calls I came up with exactly the same theory as Kev, more so given that I am on the 'telemarketers keep away' Do Not Call list - of course for all I know it *could* just be a dodgy telemarketer ignoring that and targetting the Asian market.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kev&#8217;s theory isn&#8217;t just based on paranoia, gilmae, it&#8217;s based on educated plausible speculation. What do you expect him to do - bug the Chinese embassy? It does seem more plausible than not that some very sophisticated planning was involved in these demonstrations. </p>
<p>And as I&#8217;ve related on Kev&#8217;s blog and on my own open forum on Catallaxy, in the week preceding these demonstrations I actually received two mysterious phone calls in Mandarin from a total stranger who when I informed I couldn&#8217;t understand Mandarin (which I can&#8217;t, though I know roughly how it sounds like relative to Cantonese or Hokkien) hung up. Now this may be nothing or it may be consistent with Kev&#8217;s theory but I have to admit after those 2 calls I came up with exactly the same theory as Kev, more so given that I am on the &#8216;telemarketers keep away&#8217; Do Not Call list - of course for all I know it *could* just be a dodgy telemarketer ignoring that and targetting the Asian market.</p>
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		<title>By: Kev</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/28/missing-link-daily-50/#comment-266320</link>
		<dc:creator>Kev</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 06:05:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/28/missing-link-daily-50/#comment-266320</guid>
		<description>Geoff,
Neither ramped nor in overdrive but I do find it interesting that educated young Chinese still believe in the myths of Mao.  I particularly like &lt;em&gt;Chairman Mao is like Jesus to us&lt;/em&gt; and &lt;em&gt;He’s no more a killer than George Washington or George W Bush.&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Geoff,<br />
Neither ramped nor in overdrive but I do find it interesting that educated young Chinese still believe in the myths of Mao.  I particularly like <em>Chairman Mao is like Jesus to us</em> and <em>He’s no more a killer than George Washington or George W Bush.</em></p>
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		<title>By: Geoff Honnor</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/28/missing-link-daily-50/#comment-266301</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff Honnor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 04:46:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/28/missing-link-daily-50/#comment-266301</guid>
		<description>Kev's paranoia - fortuitously coincidental with reality or not - might ramp up when he hears that the Chinese government apparently paid to fly Chinese students studying in Auckland to the Canberra torch rally. 

http://www.stuff.co.nz/thepress/4497105a6009.html

It should go into overdrive when he reads this:

http://portia.gnn.tv/blogs/15401/mob_of_chinese_students_protest_student_newspaper_cover</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kev&#8217;s paranoia - fortuitously coincidental with reality or not - might ramp up when he hears that the Chinese government apparently paid to fly Chinese students studying in Auckland to the Canberra torch rally. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.stuff.co.nz/thepress/4497105a6009.html" >http://www.stuff.co.nz/thepress/4497105a6009.html</a></p>
<p>It should go into overdrive when he reads this:</p>
<p><a href="http://portia.gnn.tv/blogs/15401/mob_of_chinese_students_protest_student_newspaper_cover" >http://portia.gnn.tv/blogs/15401/mob_of_chinese_students_protest_student_newspaper_cover</a></p>
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		<title>By: Kev</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/28/missing-link-daily-50/#comment-266288</link>
		<dc:creator>Kev</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 03:28:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/28/missing-link-daily-50/#comment-266288</guid>
		<description>Gilmae,
Yep, a gut feeling based on 40 plus years of studying, observing and reading about the Chinese.  It's the type of thing they would do and I doubt the bulk of the Chinese at Canberra were expats; more likely they were students. Skepticism, more than paranoia, doesn't suggest I'm correct, just that I think there is more to the event than spontaneous patriotism.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gilmae,<br />
Yep, a gut feeling based on 40 plus years of studying, observing and reading about the Chinese.  It&#8217;s the type of thing they would do and I doubt the bulk of the Chinese at Canberra were expats; more likely they were students. Skepticism, more than paranoia, doesn&#8217;t suggest I&#8217;m correct, just that I think there is more to the event than spontaneous patriotism.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/28/missing-link-daily-50/#comment-266281</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 02:55:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/28/missing-link-daily-50/#comment-266281</guid>
		<description>Can guess them, though ;)

Kev is definitely oversimplifying China and the Chinese, see eg this post and the (record length for that blog but still interesting) comments &lt;a href="http://www.economist.com/blogs/certainideasofeurope/2008/04/what_do_europebased_chinese_th.cfm" rel="nofollow"&gt;thread&lt;/a&gt;.

Kev is, however, right about the taxes on mixed drinks. I don't recall girls and adolescents getting suddenly drunker when mixed drinks came on stage - the girls of my adolescence coped just fine on Passion Pop; Spumante and Midori, thank you, not to mention whatever else was going when that ran out!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can guess them, though <img src='http://clubtroppo.com.au/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Kev is definitely oversimplifying China and the Chinese, see eg this post and the (record length for that blog but still interesting) comments <a href="http://www.economist.com/blogs/certainideasofeurope/2008/04/what_do_europebased_chinese_th.cfm" >thread</a>.</p>
<p>Kev is, however, right about the taxes on mixed drinks. I don&#8217;t recall girls and adolescents getting suddenly drunker when mixed drinks came on stage - the girls of my adolescence coped just fine on Passion Pop; Spumante and Midori, thank you, not to mention whatever else was going when that ran out!!</p>
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		<title>By: The Worst of Perth</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/28/missing-link-daily-50/#comment-266254</link>
		<dc:creator>The Worst of Perth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 01:46:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/28/missing-link-daily-50/#comment-266254</guid>
		<description>F yore info. The flickr gallery often covers up the side comment box. (firefox) So can't read the FOI comments.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>F yore info. The flickr gallery often covers up the side comment box. (firefox) So can&#8217;t read the FOI comments.</p>
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		<title>By: gilmae</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/28/missing-link-daily-50/#comment-266229</link>
		<dc:creator>gilmae</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 01:10:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/28/missing-link-daily-50/#comment-266229</guid>
		<description>Paranoia doesn't preclude being correct, it just means that being correct is entirely coincidental. 
Kev based his conclusion entirely on a gut feeling, a gut feeling informed by his dislike for the Chinese government and predicated on the notion that no ex-pat Chinese could possibly overcome what can only be a shared hatred of the Communist Party to stand up for lingering feelings of national pride.

You and he both use terms like "looking" and "seemed" and put together a shadowy conspiracy. Sure, you may well be right but it will be accidental.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paranoia doesn&#8217;t preclude being correct, it just means that being correct is entirely coincidental.<br />
Kev based his conclusion entirely on a gut feeling, a gut feeling informed by his dislike for the Chinese government and predicated on the notion that no ex-pat Chinese could possibly overcome what can only be a shared hatred of the Communist Party to stand up for lingering feelings of national pride.</p>
<p>You and he both use terms like &#8220;looking&#8221; and &#8220;seemed&#8221; and put together a shadowy conspiracy. Sure, you may well be right but it will be accidental.</p>
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		<title>By: saint</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/28/missing-link-daily-50/#comment-266223</link>
		<dc:creator>saint</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 01:05:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/28/missing-link-daily-50/#comment-266223</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;this &lt;/em&gt;particular group</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>this </em>particular group</p>
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		<title>By: Shaun</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/28/missing-link-daily-50/#comment-266222</link>
		<dc:creator>Shaun</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 01:02:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/28/missing-link-daily-50/#comment-266222</guid>
		<description>Good question Ken. Gallen claims to be reformed but I wonder how long that will last.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good question Ken. Gallen claims to be reformed but I wonder how long that will last.</p>
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		<title>By: saint</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/28/missing-link-daily-50/#comment-266220</link>
		<dc:creator>saint</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 00:59:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/28/missing-link-daily-50/#comment-266220</guid>
		<description>Hmm I don't think Kev is all that paranoid. 

I did see reports that the Chinese Ambassador Zhang Junsai (who had been quite vocal about torch security *rolls eyes* in the lead up to the local leg) had been actively "encouraging" Chinese students to attend the relay (and it seemed there was a sizeable crowd of predominantly Chinese students of the non-Australian kind who were there, if I go by the news coverage, many of whom didn't even seem to speak English well.  So not your third generation Chinese Aussie uni student.)

The tactics too, amongst these particular group of China supporters, just didn't go looking like your happy go lucky Olympic supporters proud of their country.  Too stage managed.

Wouldn't be surprises if Junsai had a finger in there somewhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmm I don&#8217;t think Kev is all that paranoid. </p>
<p>I did see reports that the Chinese Ambassador Zhang Junsai (who had been quite vocal about torch security *rolls eyes* in the lead up to the local leg) had been actively &#8220;encouraging&#8221; Chinese students to attend the relay (and it seemed there was a sizeable crowd of predominantly Chinese students of the non-Australian kind who were there, if I go by the news coverage, many of whom didn&#8217;t even seem to speak English well.  So not your third generation Chinese Aussie uni student.)</p>
<p>The tactics too, amongst these particular group of China supporters, just didn&#8217;t go looking like your happy go lucky Olympic supporters proud of their country.  Too stage managed.</p>
<p>Wouldn&#8217;t be surprises if Junsai had a finger in there somewhere.</p>
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		<title>By: Caroline</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/28/missing-link-daily-50/#comment-266212</link>
		<dc:creator>Caroline</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 00:44:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/28/missing-link-daily-50/#comment-266212</guid>
		<description>As it turns out, &lt;em&gt;money can buy happiness.&lt;/em&gt; Next question.  Where from?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As it turns out, <em>money can buy happiness.</em> Next question.  Where from?</p>
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		<title>By: gilmae</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/28/missing-link-daily-50/#comment-266201</link>
		<dc:creator>gilmae</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Apr 2008 00:21:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/28/missing-link-daily-50/#comment-266201</guid>
		<description>There is a reason they call it thugby, Ken.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a reason they call it thugby, Ken.</p>
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