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	<title>Comments on: A gotcha in Wordpress 2.5.1</title>
	<atom:link href="http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/29/a-gotcha-in-wordpress-251/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/29/a-gotcha-in-wordpress-251/</link>
	<description>Fearlessly dispensing political, legal and economic analysis (and some whimsy) since 2002</description>
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		<title>By: Jacques Chester</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/29/a-gotcha-in-wordpress-251/#comment-266985</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques Chester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 08:26:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5242#comment-266985</guid>
		<description>Oracle have given assurances that they won&#039;t pull out the InnoDB rug from under MySQL, but assurances from big IT companies about what they&#039;ll support in future are worthless.

The MySQL people have hired a few old DEC and IBM hands who are writing a new engine called Falcon. It&#039;ll be interesting to see how that goes, but it doesn&#039;t do much for me right now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oracle have given assurances that they won&#8217;t pull out the InnoDB rug from under MySQL, but assurances from big IT companies about what they&#8217;ll support in future are worthless.</p>
<p>The MySQL people have hired a few old DEC and IBM hands who are writing a new engine called Falcon. It&#8217;ll be interesting to see how that goes, but it doesn&#8217;t do much for me right now.</p>
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		<title>By: gilmae</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/29/a-gotcha-in-wordpress-251/#comment-266845</link>
		<dc:creator>gilmae</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 23:19:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5242#comment-266845</guid>
		<description>And Sun just bought MySQL, didn&#039;t they. I wonder what is going to happen with InnoDB now, if Oracle will quietly shoot it in the head to spite Sun.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And Sun just bought MySQL, didn&#8217;t they. I wonder what is going to happen with InnoDB now, if Oracle will quietly shoot it in the head to spite Sun.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacques Chester</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/29/a-gotcha-in-wordpress-251/#comment-266752</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques Chester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 14:27:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5242#comment-266752</guid>
		<description>In defence of WP though, the new interface arrived in 2.5, not 2.5.1.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In defence of WP though, the new interface arrived in 2.5, not 2.5.1.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacques Chester</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/29/a-gotcha-in-wordpress-251/#comment-266751</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques Chester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 14:27:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5242#comment-266751</guid>
		<description>Stephen;

InnoDB isn&#039;t written by the MySQL people. It&#039;s written by a third party who were subsequently bought by Oracle.

InnoDB doesn&#039;t support TEXT fields, so cannot be used to back Wordpress installations. Which brings me back to bitching about MyISAM :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stephen;</p>
<p>InnoDB isn&#8217;t written by the MySQL people. It&#8217;s written by a third party who were subsequently bought by Oracle.</p>
<p>InnoDB doesn&#8217;t support TEXT fields, so cannot be used to back Wordpress installations. Which brings me back to bitching about MyISAM :)</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Bounds</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/29/a-gotcha-in-wordpress-251/#comment-266748</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Bounds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 14:10:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5242#comment-266748</guid>
		<description>Jacques,

I haven&#039;t ever used Wordpress for any serious purpose, so I can&#039;t really comment on your buggy experience, but it seems a bit unfair to group MySQL with WordPress.

According to various posts, the InnoDB engine works just fine and has all the features you say you&#039;re missing.

But it does sound like Wordpress doesn&#039;t quite understand what &#039;dot point&#039; releases are all about.

By tradition, 2.5 -&gt; 2.5.1 should be just bug fixes, not major new features like a &quot;new interface&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jacques,</p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t ever used Wordpress for any serious purpose, so I can&#8217;t really comment on your buggy experience, but it seems a bit unfair to group MySQL with WordPress.</p>
<p>According to various posts, the InnoDB engine works just fine and has all the features you say you&#8217;re missing.</p>
<p>But it does sound like Wordpress doesn&#8217;t quite understand what &#8216;dot point&#8217; releases are all about.</p>
<p>By tradition, 2.5 -&gt; 2.5.1 should be just bug fixes, not major new features like a &#8220;new interface&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: gilmae</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/29/a-gotcha-in-wordpress-251/#comment-266683</link>
		<dc:creator>gilmae</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 09:57:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5242#comment-266683</guid>
		<description>The idea wouldn&#039;t be to submit patches, and *I* certainly wouldn&#039;t do it anyway not least because I&#039;m not even a little bit interested in improving Wordpress. My point was that if it was enough of a problem then it should be feasible for interested parties to create backport patches for older versions of Wordpress from the change logs. It&#039;d be a thankless job though.

Cloning tool? IANA MySQL Admin, but this works for me rather well.

mysqldump databasename -u username -h hostname -ppassword --add-drop-table --compatible=mysql323 &gt; database.backup
mysql backupdatabasename -u username -h backuphostname -ppassword &lt; database.backup</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The idea wouldn&#8217;t be to submit patches, and *I* certainly wouldn&#8217;t do it anyway not least because I&#8217;m not even a little bit interested in improving Wordpress. My point was that if it was enough of a problem then it should be feasible for interested parties to create backport patches for older versions of Wordpress from the change logs. It&#8217;d be a thankless job though.</p>
<p>Cloning tool? IANA MySQL Admin, but this works for me rather well.</p>
<p>mysqldump databasename -u username -h hostname -ppassword &#8211;add-drop-table &#8211;compatible=mysql323 &gt; database.backup<br />
mysql backupdatabasename -u username -h backuphostname -ppassword &lt; database.backup</p>
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		<title>By: Jacques Chester</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/29/a-gotcha-in-wordpress-251/#comment-266682</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques Chester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 09:50:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5242#comment-266682</guid>
		<description>As for the Wordpress repo, you can submit patches if you like. They may or may not accept them, depending on whether you&#039;re bestest mates with Matt Mullenweg.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As for the Wordpress repo, you can submit patches if you like. They may or may not accept them, depending on whether you&#8217;re bestest mates with Matt Mullenweg.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacques Chester</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/29/a-gotcha-in-wordpress-251/#comment-266681</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques Chester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 09:49:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5242#comment-266681</guid>
		<description>gilmae;

Wordpress relies on another dogpile piece of software, MySQL, using MySQL&#039;s preposterously poor MyISAM engine. Which doesn&#039;t have transactions. Or referential integrity. Or indeed anything that separates databases from flatfiles.

So I&#039;m nervous about running two copies off a single database. I might see if there&#039;s a cloning tool though, that could be a way forward.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>gilmae;</p>
<p>Wordpress relies on another dogpile piece of software, MySQL, using MySQL&#8217;s preposterously poor MyISAM engine. Which doesn&#8217;t have transactions. Or referential integrity. Or indeed anything that separates databases from flatfiles.</p>
<p>So I&#8217;m nervous about running two copies off a single database. I might see if there&#8217;s a cloning tool though, that could be a way forward.</p>
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		<title>By: gilmae</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/29/a-gotcha-in-wordpress-251/#comment-266645</link>
		<dc:creator>gilmae</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 06:26:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5242#comment-266645</guid>
		<description>Nevermind, found it</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nevermind, found it</p>
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		<title>By: gilmae</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/29/a-gotcha-in-wordpress-251/#comment-266642</link>
		<dc:creator>gilmae</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 06:23:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5242#comment-266642</guid>
		<description>I suppose you could replay, but I got the impression from this post, and Ken complaining in the ML post, that what you don&#039;t like about 2.5.1 were found pretty quickly just with general usage. There are also hacks for running two installations - a released version and a HEAD version, presumably - off the same database.

I tried looking around for their source repository to see if it was even plausible for others to generate patches themselves, but couldn&#039;t find one. Is it not publicly available?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suppose you could replay, but I got the impression from this post, and Ken complaining in the ML post, that what you don&#8217;t like about 2.5.1 were found pretty quickly just with general usage. There are also hacks for running two installations &#8211; a released version and a HEAD version, presumably &#8211; off the same database.</p>
<p>I tried looking around for their source repository to see if it was even plausible for others to generate patches themselves, but couldn&#8217;t find one. Is it not publicly available?</p>
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		<title>By: Jacques Chester</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/29/a-gotcha-in-wordpress-251/#comment-266634</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques Chester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 06:08:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5242#comment-266634</guid>
		<description>gilmae;

I imagine the test would have to involve &#039;replaying&#039; a bunch of traffic. There are tools around for capturing traffic so it can be replayed. Then you&#039;d need to write tests to compare the befores and afters, and so on.




Ooooooon the other hand, perhaps the Wordpress.org crew could try unit testing their own code. Which they don&#039;t, at the moment. Or fixing old bugs. Which they don&#039;t, at the moment. Or backporting security fixes so I don&#039;t need to stress about this kind of rubbish. Which they don&#039;t, at the moment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>gilmae;</p>
<p>I imagine the test would have to involve &#8216;replaying&#8217; a bunch of traffic. There are tools around for capturing traffic so it can be replayed. Then you&#8217;d need to write tests to compare the befores and afters, and so on.</p>
<p>Ooooooon the other hand, perhaps the Wordpress.org crew could try unit testing their own code. Which they don&#8217;t, at the moment. Or fixing old bugs. Which they don&#8217;t, at the moment. Or backporting security fixes so I don&#8217;t need to stress about this kind of rubbish. Which they don&#8217;t, at the moment.</p>
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		<title>By: gilmae</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/29/a-gotcha-in-wordpress-251/#comment-266630</link>
		<dc:creator>gilmae</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 06:06:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5242#comment-266630</guid>
		<description>Well...for a blog a migration test would probably take a while and involve dual posting of posts to live and test and probably some commenting as well. Trying to mimic standard usage at any rate so you can at least see how it is going to work even if you obviously aren&#039;t going to shake out everything.

But it&#039;s a giant pain in the arse to do. I gave up on doing it because I find it easier to just deploy and fix things if they crop up; like Microsoft does :- )</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well&#8230;for a blog a migration test would probably take a while and involve dual posting of posts to live and test and probably some commenting as well. Trying to mimic standard usage at any rate so you can at least see how it is going to work even if you obviously aren&#8217;t going to shake out everything.</p>
<p>But it&#8217;s a giant pain in the arse to do. I gave up on doing it because I find it easier to just deploy and fix things if they crop up; like Microsoft does :- )</p>
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		<title>By: Jacques Chester</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/29/a-gotcha-in-wordpress-251/#comment-266628</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques Chester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 06:06:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5242#comment-266628</guid>
		<description>Liam;

I&#039;m not keen to do a standalone installation as TinyMCE is fairly closely wired into the standard Wordpress install. Wordpress is hassle enough already.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Liam;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not keen to do a standalone installation as TinyMCE is fairly closely wired into the standard Wordpress install. Wordpress is hassle enough already.</p>
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		<title>By: Liam (Bring Back Punster Paxton)</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/29/a-gotcha-in-wordpress-251/#comment-266627</link>
		<dc:creator>Liam (Bring Back Punster Paxton)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 06:04:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5242#comment-266627</guid>
		<description>Can you install TinyMCE as a standalone? I&#039;ve done it in Drupal, and the button you&#039;ve described outputs &lt;blockquote&gt; tags perfectly.
(I prefer FCKeditor though, if you need an editor)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can you install TinyMCE as a standalone? I&#8217;ve done it in Drupal, and the button you&#8217;ve described outputs &lt;blockquote&gt; tags perfectly.<br />
(I prefer FCKeditor though, if you need an editor)</p>
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		<title>By: Jacques Chester</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/29/a-gotcha-in-wordpress-251/#comment-266625</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques Chester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 06:02:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5242#comment-266625</guid>
		<description>My favourite Wordpress bug is that the &#039;post_published&#039; hook fires when a post is published ... AND when it is subsequently edited. Yet there is also a &#039;post_edited&#039; hook. That&#039;s been in the bugtracker since 2.2.

That&#039;s why, for a few weeks, everyone was getting a dozen copies of Missing Link. So now instead the code is wired into the &#039;private_to_public&#039; hook. The new interface makes it harder to do this. It used to be that pressing &#039;publish&#039; turned off private status; now you have to click a tickbox as well.

Ken is, quite naturally, ropable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My favourite Wordpress bug is that the &#8216;post_published&#8217; hook fires when a post is published &#8230; AND when it is subsequently edited. Yet there is also a &#8216;post_edited&#8217; hook. That&#8217;s been in the bugtracker since 2.2.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s why, for a few weeks, everyone was getting a dozen copies of Missing Link. So now instead the code is wired into the &#8216;private_to_public&#8217; hook. The new interface makes it harder to do this. It used to be that pressing &#8216;publish&#8217; turned off private status; now you have to click a tickbox as well.</p>
<p>Ken is, quite naturally, ropable.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacques Chester</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/29/a-gotcha-in-wordpress-251/#comment-266624</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques Chester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 06:00:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5242#comment-266624</guid>
		<description>No, I don&#039;t. I tried to set up virtualisation on the troppo server and it was a total, unmitigated disaster.

Plus, for bonus fun, a migration test wouldn&#039;t have revealed this behaviour in advance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, I don&#8217;t. I tried to set up virtualisation on the troppo server and it was a total, unmitigated disaster.</p>
<p>Plus, for bonus fun, a migration test wouldn&#8217;t have revealed this behaviour in advance.</p>
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		<title>By: gilmae</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/04/29/a-gotcha-in-wordpress-251/#comment-266622</link>
		<dc:creator>gilmae</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 05:56:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5242#comment-266622</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m sypathising, I really am. I have done that more times than I care to remember and lucky my only reader is the googlebot. 

I made sure to say that going in so I don&#039;t come across as a complete arsehole. But really, you&#039;ve not got a second copy of CT running somewhere to do migration tests on?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sypathising, I really am. I have done that more times than I care to remember and lucky my only reader is the googlebot. </p>
<p>I made sure to say that going in so I don&#8217;t come across as a complete arsehole. But really, you&#8217;ve not got a second copy of CT running somewhere to do migration tests on?</p>
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