However, Gilmae’s expression of his own opinion was in a sidebar comment, which is the approved manner of doing this for ML because it maintains the Neutral Point of View convention of journalism while still allowing team members the luxury of expressing a personal viewpoint, as long as it’s made clear that that is exactly what it is.

Finally, I certainly don’t share CL’s jaundiced opinion of Al Gore, but I do wonder how the Nobel Committee concluded that making docos on global warming had a close enough connection with promoting peace to merit such a major award. Still, I suppose it’s no more indirect than awarding the Nobel to the bloke who started the Grameen Bank for micro-loans to the poor. No doubt one can argue that alleviating poverty/gross inequality may contribute to lessening the danger of wars triggered by disparities of poverty or envy or inequality, just as perhaps one can argue that agitating for action on climate change may (if successful) reduce the risk of war triggered by its effects on food production, drought, loss of coastal lands etc. However, it’s an extraordinarily indirect effect and not self-evidently worthy of a Nobel in the face of seemingly far more worthy candidates including Sendler and those mentioned by JC in #55.

The WJS thought these people were worthier than Al.

Olso Friday, the 2007 Nobel Peace Prize was not awarded to the Burmese monks whose defiance against, and brutalization at the hands of, the countrys military junta in recent weeks captured the attention of the Free World.

The prize was also not awarded to Morgan Tsvangirai, Arthur Mutambara and other Zimbabwe opposition leaders who were arrested and in some cases beaten by police earlier this year while protesting peacefully against dictator Robert Mugabe.

Or to Father Nguyen Van Ly, a Catholic priest in Vietnam arrested this year and sentenced to eight years in prison for helping the pro-democracy group Block 8406.

Or to Wajeha al-Huwaider and Fawzia al-Uyyouni, co-founders of the League of Demanders of Womens Right to Drive Cars in Saudi Arabia, who are waging a modest struggle with grand ambitions to secure basic rights for women in that Muslim country.

Or to Colombian President lvaro Uribe, who has fought tirelessly to end the violence wrought by left-wing terrorists and drug lords in his country.

Or to Garry Kasparov and the several hundred Russians who were arrested in April, and are continually harassed, for resisting President Vladimir Putins slide toward authoritarian rule.

Or to the people of Iraq, who bravely work to rebuild and reunite their country amid constant threats to themselves and their families from terrorists who deliberately target civilians.

Or to Presidents Viktor Yushchenko and Mikheil Saakashvili who, despite the efforts of the Kremlin to undermine their young states, stayed true to the spirit of the peaceful color revolutions they led in Ukraine and Georgia and showed that democracy can put down deep roots in Russias backyard.

Or to Britains Tony Blair, Irelands Bertie Ahern and the voters of Northern Ireland, who in March were able to set aside decades of hatred to establish joint Catholic-Protestant rule in Northern Ireland.

Or to thousands of Chinese bloggers who run the risk of arrest by trying to bring uncensored information to their countrymen.

Or to scholar and activist Saad Eddin Ibrahim, jailed presidential candidate Ayman Nour and other democracy campaigners in Egypt.

Or, posthumously, to lawmakers Walid Eido, Pierre Gemayel, Antoine Ghanem, Rafik Hariri, George Hawi and Gibran Tueni; journalist Samir Kassir; and other Lebanese citizens whove been assassinated since 2005 for their efforts to free their country from Syrian control.

Or to the Reverend Phillip Buck; Pastor Chun Ki Won and his organization, Durihana; Tim Peters and his Helping Hands Korea; and Liberty in North Korea, who help North Korean refugees escape to safety in free nations.

These men and women put their own lives and livelihoods at risk by working to rid the world of violence and oppression. Let us hope they survive the coming year so that the Nobel Prize Committee might consider them for the 2008 award.

In order to find CL “contributions” you should use search terms like “Greedy Fat Al”, “The British Goracle” (an insult for Prince Charles) and “Fat Al”.

And more to the point of this thread, what do you think of C.L. title and subsequent bagging of Al Gore’s weight in the comments below of his Sendler post? Pretty poor IMHO.

KM (not KP)

No, not the economics prize because it isnt actually a Nobel prize but the Peace prize. As commenter dover beach notes in the Open Forum, Al Gore and the IPCC have won the Nobel Peace Prize. Whatever the scientific merits of the IPCCs work, this still seems like an odd choice. But no odder than honouring Yasser Arafat.

220 comments. No C.L. – unless I’m using my browser search incorrectly. I hope that’s not indicative of obsessive.

Just because some nominations are leaked doesn’t mean that all nominations are leaked. CL’s claim is that she was only nominated in 2007. Unless CL has got statements from every single person who can nominate (and the list is quite large) between 1945 and 2007, he can’t possibly know whether or not she was only nominated in 2007.

Despite your obsessions CL he did make a reasonable case and you ought to pat him on the back for doing so.

No he didn’t. He used the death of a great person to make a cheap and cowardly shot at someone who he doesn’t like. While I can see why it might appeal to ideologues, Gilmae’s comment that started this whole discussion off was entirely reasonable.

Actually there is no way that CL could know that this is true. Nobel prize nominations are kept secret.

Here’s KenM telling us the nominees are not a state secret and the ship of state leaks like the Titanic

In practice some nominees do become known<

All in the same comment.

Then here’s Ken M explaining the nominees are a state secret again.

Can you not read? Or do you just ignore facts which are inconvenient to your cheap idiotic shots? You have no way of knowing that she was nominated only once.

Here’s Tim L explaining that even Dave Hicks could have got a nomination for the peace prize.

And note further that it isnt difficult to get nominated any humanities professor or member of a national assembly can nominate by sending a letter to the Nobel committee.

Talk about CL obsession. Guys relax, all he did was suggest this woman was more deserving and explained why. Despite your obsessions CL he did make a reasonable case and you ought to pat him on the back for doing so. Frankly the woman was far more deserving than Albert. Albert had already received his Oscar or was about to and didn’t need two Academy wins as that was overkill.

I don’t understand Gummo’s narcissism comment, but the rest of comments bagging C.L. have been pretty spot on.

Who here has been belittling or dismissive of Irena Sendler?

Frankly, as a long time reader of C.L., I also found gilmae’s editorial comment surprising (C.L. obsessed with Gore??? you want to tell me about invisible pink unicorns again gilmae?) and despite his intentions, and along with some of the comments here, belittling and dismissive of Irena Sendler; let’s not go to some people’s obsession with C.L.

Perhaps some don’t need to succumb to “narcissism” because after all, even a “small effort” seems already beyond them.

Again, why would I do that when Ms Sendler was only a nominee in 2007, having lived in relative obscurity until a hit-play, Life in a Jar (1999), made her work known to the wider world?

Can you not read? Or do you just ignore facts which are inconvenient to your cheap idiotic shots? You have no way of knowing that she was nominated only once.

She was obscure enough that she was recognised by Israel in the 1960s. Back then she would have been a much stronger candidate for the Noble – simply because of the passage of time reduces the chance that somebody will get the Peace Nobel.

And Im not the one bitching. You, Tim, Gummo and Niall are – remember?

Yeah, because it was me, Tim, Gummo and Niall who were using Irena Sendler’s obit to take cheap shots at someone we don’t like.

Again, why would I do that when Ms Sendler was only a nominee in 2007, having lived in relative obscurity until a hit-play, ‘Life in a Jar’ (1999), made her work known to the wider world?

And I’m not the one bitching. You, Tim, Gummo and Niall are – remember?

And one last point, peace prizes tend to be given out shortly after the event (relative to science prizes which have to stand the test of time) so CL should be bitching about people who won the peace prize shortly after WWII, not Al Gore. Irena Sendler had a virtually zero chance of getting the Peace Prize in 2007 irrespective of who else was nominated.

Actually there is no way that CL could know that this is true. Nobel prize nominations are kept secret. From Wikipedia:

The names of the nominees are never publicly announced, and neither are they told that they have been considered for the Prize. Nomination records are sealed for fifty years. In practice some nominees do become known. It is also common for publicists to make such a claim, founded or not.

You mean varnish, then? I wouldn’t paint you with that, Niall. The sight of a naked, hairy and SHINEY man would scare the bejesus out of Vietnamese motorists.

“To lie is to state something one believes is false with the intention that it be taken for the truth by someone else”

C.L., I take it then you feel gilmae a) believes that you don’t have an Al Gore obssesion and b) intended that we all it take it as a truth that you do?

But back to the point: Gilmaes reference – get over his Al Gore obsessions – presupposed such obsessions actually existed and are somehow known to exist in my writings. Got that? I obsessively write and post about Al Gore, according to Gilmae. Who knew? Well, nobody. It is, of course, a deliberate lie.

Perhaps the best way to get this dealt with, since it bothers you so much, is for you to lead by example and withdraw the numerous false accusations against others that you’ve made in your comments here. Starting with the one about gilmae’s remark on your obsession with Al Gore being, of course, a deliberate lie.

But back to the point: Gilmae’s reference – “get over his Al Gore obsessions” – presupposed such “obsessions” actually existed and are somehow known to exist in my writings. Got that? I obsessively write and post about Al Gore, according to Gilmae. Who knew? Well, nobody. It is, of course, a deliberate lie.

My header was a perfectly legitimate cultural point to make about these two nominees and what it says about our age that Gore won. That’s pretty obvious given the respectful post I prepared about a woman I admired very much.

Nobody has to agree with that header comparison. Just as I personally wouldn’t link to anything written by the Juan Cole – the man who famously claimed that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was “misquoted” about wiping Israel off the map.

Let’s not downplay the heroism of Al Gore and the IPCC. It’s said that on one occasion during the making of his film, An Inconvenient Truth, Gore once walked past the caterers’ tent without grabbing so much as a muffin.

No mention of Sendler, instead it’s an ever so witty “Al Gore is fat” comment. (And the Nobel Peace Prize is not a medal for heroism in any event.)

And the point of gilmae’s footnote was to encourage folks to read CL’s post and not be put off by the title, which leads you to expect the usual RWDB Gore hatefest.

Gummo hits the booze:

“Most of us are aware that, absent any proof, we dont know what wed do if we were tortured. Most of us are also aware that absent any proof, we dont know how wed behave if we had a tooth extracted without anaesthetic, found ourselves in a lifeboat with only human corpses as a food supply or with our arm stuck under a big boulder, miles from help, and faced with the prospect of either cutting it off with a Swiss Army Knife or dying of hypothermia

“Most of us dont dwell on these hypothetical questions for any length of time; at least not when were sober. And while I might profess admiration for one or two moral (or intellectual) heroes, I dont necessarily aspire to the opportunity to emulate them if it involves electrodes coming any where near my testicles. I hope that in writing about them I wouldnt suddenly turn the focus from their attainments to my (non-existent) habit of contemplating their awesomeness and finding myself so very inferior to them. That habit isnt exactly a healthy one to have, either – it makes ethics the realm of heroic virtue rather than the everyday necessity it is for most of us.

“After what Ive just said and what I said above to Patrick, youll find it no surprise that I find your last sentence as self-indulgent as the passage I quoted. On balance, I dont count myself as moral kindred to Irena Sendler – just someone who has sometimes too definite ideas about whats right and what aint, and the good fortune to live in a society with a low enough electrode/testicle ratio that the ethical choices of everyday life arent too challenging.”

285 words.

Written with a depressive’s exquisite virtuosity for navel-gazing.

_________________________________________________________

What Gore worshipping imbiber Gummo regards as my dwelling on the subject:

“I ask myself: would I have measured up to Ms Sendler’s standards? Would I have defied the Gestapo on a daily basis? Would I, like her, have refused to talk as torturers broke my legs? The answers don’t come easily. Good people can only be morally kindred to such heroes of history while hoping the world never presents them or their children with a chance to find out for real – the hard way.”

74 words.

_________________________________________________________

What came before my merely concluding contemplation:

“WE who were rescuing children are not some kind of heroes. Indeed, that term irritates me greatly. The opposite is true: I continue to have qualms of conscience that I did so little.” So said Irena Sendler who has died in Warsaw, aged 98. Yad Vashem called her Righteous Among the Nations and Poland bestowed on her its highest civilian decoration – the Order of the White Eagle – for saving an estimated 2500 children from the Warsaw Ghetto before they could be exterminated with all the other Jews imprisoned in that Nazi hellhole. Sendler’s name is also now associated, of course, with the method she used to record the children’s names.

“Too frail to attend last year’s parliamentary ceremony honouring her and the underground Council for Aid to Jews (Zegota) – for which she and her mostly Catholic circle worked – she sent a letter that was read at the Sejm by a woman she saved as a little baby. In part, it said:

“Every child saved with my help is the justification of my existence on this Earth, and not a title to glory.”

“Over a half-century has passed since the hell of the Holocaust, but its spectre still hangs over the world and doesn’t allow us to forget the tragedy.”

“Pope John Paul II wrote a rare personal letter to Sendler in 2003:

Honorable and dear Madam, I have learned you were awarded the Jan Karski prize for Valor and Courage. Please accept my hearty congratulations and respect for your extraordinarily brave activities in the years of occupation, when – disregarding your own security – you were saving many children from extermination, and rendering humanitarian assistance to human beings who needed spiritual and material aid. Having been yourself afflicted with physical tortures and spiritual sufferings you did not break down, but still unsparingly served others, co-creating homes for children and adults. For those deeds of goodness for others, let the Lord God in his goodness reward you with special graces and blessing. Remaining with respect and gratitude I give the Apostolic Benediction to you.

“I’m no expert on Ms Sendler but my instinct all the same is to dislike the sobriquet, the Female Schindler. I can appreciate its journalistic and didactic utility in light of Stephen Spielberg’s film masterpiece but my guess is she probably saved more lives than Oskar Schindler (not that it’s a contest) and she had no status as an industrialist to shield her work. When she was caught she was tortured. Perhaps it would be fairer to say the great Schindler was the Male Sendler. Anyway, in a world that praises the heroism of a footballer playing with a chipped collarbone, it really is a grace to be reminded of what actual heroism looks like and also what it entails: namely, choosing what is right no matter what the price.”

_________________________________________________________

Gummo, you, gilmae and Tim were angry at the implied criticism of Gore – the planet-saving hero of the modern deranged left. So you concocted an argument about narcissism to offset your own resentment at my inclusion in this daily round-up and to save a critique which gilame and Lambert had to abandon.

What a sad little minnow you are.