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	<title>Comments on: Missing Link Daily</title>
	<atom:link href="http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/05/28/missing-link-daily-71/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/05/28/missing-link-daily-71/</link>
	<description>Fearlessly dispensing political, legal and economic analysis (and some whimsy) since 2002</description>
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		<title>By: Graham Bell</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/05/28/missing-link-daily-71/#comment-276250</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham Bell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 15:11:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5387#comment-276250</guid>
		<description>Re Ralph Buttigieg&#039;s blog: 

I am astonished!  How the hell can anyone serving with the Australian Defence Force in Iraq feel &quot;ashamed[wtf!!!]&quot; at not getting shot at or blown up?

If you are in a war then every day someone is not trying to kill you or injure you is a good day.

War is war.  It&#039;s not an action comic, it&#039;s not a shoot-&#039;em-up computer game.  It&#039;s real; if you get killed you stay dead, permanently.

Trying to count victory by the number of casualties you suffer yourself is downright stupid; we saw enough of that lunacy in the Viet-Nam War; it is only a cover-up for bad training and bad leadership - both political and military.   In marked contrast, the ancient Spartans considered it a great victory if a war was won without a drop of blood being shed.   Maybe we should be paying more attention to the ancient Spartan strategoi than to the armchair admirals and their silly theories in Washington and Canberra.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re Ralph Buttigieg&#8217;s blog: </p>
<p>I am astonished!  How the hell can anyone serving with the Australian Defence Force in Iraq feel &#8220;ashamed[wtf!!!]&#8221; at not getting shot at or blown up?</p>
<p>If you are in a war then every day someone is not trying to kill you or injure you is a good day.</p>
<p>War is war.  It&#8217;s not an action comic, it&#8217;s not a shoot-&#8217;em-up computer game.  It&#8217;s real; if you get killed you stay dead, permanently.</p>
<p>Trying to count victory by the number of casualties you suffer yourself is downright stupid; we saw enough of that lunacy in the Viet-Nam War; it is only a cover-up for bad training and bad leadership &#8211; both political and military.   In marked contrast, the ancient Spartans considered it a great victory if a war was won without a drop of blood being shed.   Maybe we should be paying more attention to the ancient Spartan strategoi than to the armchair admirals and their silly theories in Washington and Canberra.</p>
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		<title>By: Stephen Hill</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/05/28/missing-link-daily-71/#comment-276107</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephen Hill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 02:03:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5387#comment-276107</guid>
		<description>Yes, apologies to View from Elsewhere, I read the post through the RSS feeder and assumed it was part 2 of Pavlov&#039;s piece on Garner, I obviously confused the View from Elsewhere with a Fugitive Phenomenon (one of PC&#039;s many blogs).

This is the second time this has happened, I unfortunately misidentified Tim Train&#039;s comic post at Sarsparilla, assuming it to was the work of Tim Sterne.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, apologies to View from Elsewhere, I read the post through the RSS feeder and assumed it was part 2 of Pavlov&#8217;s piece on Garner, I obviously confused the View from Elsewhere with a Fugitive Phenomenon (one of PC&#8217;s many blogs).</p>
<p>This is the second time this has happened, I unfortunately misidentified Tim Train&#8217;s comic post at Sarsparilla, assuming it to was the work of Tim Sterne.</p>
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		<title>By: Pavlov's Cat</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/05/28/missing-link-daily-71/#comment-276076</link>
		<dc:creator>Pavlov's Cat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 00:38:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5387#comment-276076</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://elsewhere.typepad.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Elsewhere&lt;/a&gt; is highly recommended reading, for anyone who doesn&#039;t know this already. She writes fabulous posts on Indigenous affairs, life in Alice Springs, bike-riding, literature and writing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://elsewhere.typepad.com">Elsewhere</a> is highly recommended reading, for anyone who doesn&#8217;t know this already. She writes fabulous posts on Indigenous affairs, life in Alice Springs, bike-riding, literature and writing.</p>
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		<title>By: Ag</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/05/28/missing-link-daily-71/#comment-276063</link>
		<dc:creator>Ag</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 00:26:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5387#comment-276063</guid>
		<description>The Pavlov&#039;s Cat link takes you to the view from elsewhere post on The Spare Room. The fiction/non-fiction issue is one of the more interesting aspects surrounding Helen Garner&#039;s latest work, and elsewhere nicely sifts through HG&#039;s justifications for identifying the work as fiction. A good companion post to Pavlov Cat&#039;s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Pavlov&#8217;s Cat link takes you to the view from elsewhere post on The Spare Room. The fiction/non-fiction issue is one of the more interesting aspects surrounding Helen Garner&#8217;s latest work, and elsewhere nicely sifts through HG&#8217;s justifications for identifying the work as fiction. A good companion post to Pavlov Cat&#8217;s.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Parish</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/05/28/missing-link-daily-71/#comment-276059</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Parish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 00:22:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5387#comment-276059</guid>
		<description>Certainly the particular catalogues I browsed after reading Laura&#039;s comment consisted, as Gilmae suggests, of kiddies posed in full length pyjamas adjacent to older models in underwear.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Certainly the particular catalogues I browsed after reading Laura&#8217;s comment consisted, as Gilmae suggests, of kiddies posed in full length pyjamas adjacent to older models in underwear.</p>
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		<title>By: gilmae</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/05/28/missing-link-daily-71/#comment-276049</link>
		<dc:creator>gilmae</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 00:07:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5387#comment-276049</guid>
		<description>I think I&#039;m going to politely disbelieve such practices - semi-common publication of  kids-in-underwear in commercial catalogues - actually exist until some one lodges evidence. It isn&#039;t as if claims with little foundation in reality have never before bubbled up out of the field of child protection. Satanic child abusers running child care centres, &amp;c.

IANA expert in the human mind, but I can readily imagine how a person who wants to believe can remember catalogues depicting children in underwear when the catalogue really only had kids in pajamas proximate to women modeling bras and things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think I&#8217;m going to politely disbelieve such practices &#8211; semi-common publication of  kids-in-underwear in commercial catalogues &#8211; actually exist until some one lodges evidence. It isn&#8217;t as if claims with little foundation in reality have never before bubbled up out of the field of child protection. Satanic child abusers running child care centres, &amp;c.</p>
<p>IANA expert in the human mind, but I can readily imagine how a person who wants to believe can remember catalogues depicting children in underwear when the catalogue really only had kids in pajamas proximate to women modeling bras and things.</p>
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		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/05/28/missing-link-daily-71/#comment-276040</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 00:00:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5387#comment-276040</guid>
		<description>Yes, I don&#039;t know.  There&#039;s also what FX said here (or maybe at Junk for Code?) a couple of days ago.  

I actually have been following the Senate inquiry hearings.  I thought this was one of the weakest submission points - it&#039;s very general and second-hand - other submissions had actual magazines or talked about specific ad campaigns.

I just mention it because I suspect that the &#039;kids in underpants catalogues&#039; might meme is a conveniently limited and narrow way of identifying what it is that pedophiles get off on.  From personal experience (as the unwitting object of such attention) as well as observation I think there are few limits to what can be drawn into playing a part in sick fantasies.  

Anyway, I&#039;d have found this submission more convincing if it had presented some examples of the pictures.  My impression is that the department stores have gotten a lot more nervous about including pictures of kids who aren&#039;t fully covered up.  They don&#039;t feel confident that they can produce pictures of kids which aren&#039;t sexualised, so they skip it altogether.  I think in many ways this represents a victory for the pedophile way of seeing, since it&#039;s being allowed to set the default.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I don&#8217;t know.  There&#8217;s also what FX said here (or maybe at Junk for Code?) a couple of days ago.  </p>
<p>I actually have been following the Senate inquiry hearings.  I thought this was one of the weakest submission points &#8211; it&#8217;s very general and second-hand &#8211; other submissions had actual magazines or talked about specific ad campaigns.</p>
<p>I just mention it because I suspect that the &#8216;kids in underpants catalogues&#8217; might meme is a conveniently limited and narrow way of identifying what it is that pedophiles get off on.  From personal experience (as the unwitting object of such attention) as well as observation I think there are few limits to what can be drawn into playing a part in sick fantasies.  </p>
<p>Anyway, I&#8217;d have found this submission more convincing if it had presented some examples of the pictures.  My impression is that the department stores have gotten a lot more nervous about including pictures of kids who aren&#8217;t fully covered up.  They don&#8217;t feel confident that they can produce pictures of kids which aren&#8217;t sexualised, so they skip it altogether.  I think in many ways this represents a victory for the pedophile way of seeing, since it&#8217;s being allowed to set the default.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Parish</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/05/28/missing-link-daily-71/#comment-276024</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Parish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 23:42:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5387#comment-276024</guid>
		<description>That may be true of Target.  It apparently isn&#039;t for many other chains.  See &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23744829-1243,00.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this article&lt;/a&gt;:

&lt;blockquote&gt;In his submission, Mr Geary said that professionals working with offenders had told of clients&#039; &quot;interest in, and use of, sexualised images of children within advertising and marketing&quot;. 

He quoted Royal Children&#039;s Hospital Gatehouse Centre co-ordinator Karen Hogan, who said staff working with children and young people who engaged in sexually abusive behaviour had noticed &quot;a marked increase in perpetrators using underwear advertising magazines for stimulation that are delivered to homes&quot;. 

&quot;Males tell us that they are particularly interested in the children&#039;s section and that they can use these magazines without detection as it is so commonplace to have this material delivered to their homes,&quot; Ms Hogan said. 

Victoria Police Forensic Interviewing of Sexual Offenders manager Patrick Tidmarsh is also quoted as saying such images encourage pedophiles. 

&quot;What sexualised/eroticised child images in advertising obviously do is provide validation for those considering further exploitation of children and sex as part of a pernicious descending spiral,&quot; he said.&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That may be true of Target.  It apparently isn&#8217;t for many other chains.  See <a href="http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,23744829-1243,00.html">this article</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>In his submission, Mr Geary said that professionals working with offenders had told of clients&#8217; &#8220;interest in, and use of, sexualised images of children within advertising and marketing&#8221;. </p>
<p>He quoted Royal Children&#8217;s Hospital Gatehouse Centre co-ordinator Karen Hogan, who said staff working with children and young people who engaged in sexually abusive behaviour had noticed &#8220;a marked increase in perpetrators using underwear advertising magazines for stimulation that are delivered to homes&#8221;. </p>
<p>&#8220;Males tell us that they are particularly interested in the children&#8217;s section and that they can use these magazines without detection as it is so commonplace to have this material delivered to their homes,&#8221; Ms Hogan said. </p>
<p>Victoria Police Forensic Interviewing of Sexual Offenders manager Patrick Tidmarsh is also quoted as saying such images encourage pedophiles. </p>
<p>&#8220;What sexualised/eroticised child images in advertising obviously do is provide validation for those considering further exploitation of children and sex as part of a pernicious descending spiral,&#8221; he said.</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/05/28/missing-link-daily-71/#comment-276016</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 May 2008 23:14:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5387#comment-276016</guid>
		<description>Beautiful Losers doesn&#039;t seem to have any relation to the Leonard Cohen novel.

Just on the &#039;Target catalogue&#039; thing.  I read these things religiously - they are inserted into the local paper now, I suppose too many people have no junk mail stickers stuck on the letterbox - and they never show kids in their undies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Beautiful Losers doesn&#8217;t seem to have any relation to the Leonard Cohen novel.</p>
<p>Just on the &#8216;Target catalogue&#8217; thing.  I read these things religiously &#8211; they are inserted into the local paper now, I suppose too many people have no junk mail stickers stuck on the letterbox &#8211; and they never show kids in their undies.</p>
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