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	<title>Comments on: Unjustified, presumptuous and downright irritating</title>
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	<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/06/04/unjustified-presumptuous-and-downright-irritating/</link>
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	<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 23:17:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: The Road to Surfdom &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Unspeakable in pursuit of the Unelectable</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/06/04/unjustified-presumptuous-and-downright-irritating/#comment-327717</link>
		<dc:creator>The Road to Surfdom &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Unspeakable in pursuit of the Unelectable</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Oct 2008 02:52:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5401#comment-327717</guid>
		<description>[...] while ago there was a thread on Club Troppo about some of the annoying tropes that people come up with while arguing on the internet. RTS blogger Ken Lovell mentioned the common assumption that if you [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] while ago there was a thread on Club Troppo about some of the annoying tropes that people come up with while arguing on the internet. RTS blogger Ken Lovell mentioned the common assumption that if you [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Blogger on the Cast Iron Balcony &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Unspeakable in pursuit of the unelectable</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/06/04/unjustified-presumptuous-and-downright-irritating/#comment-287234</link>
		<dc:creator>Blogger on the Cast Iron Balcony &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Unspeakable in pursuit of the unelectable</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 11:43:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5401#comment-287234</guid>
		<description>[...] while ago there was a thread on Club Troppo about some of the annoying tropes that people come up with while arguing on the internet. RTS blogger Ken Lovell mentioned was the assumption that if you [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] while ago there was a thread on Club Troppo about some of the annoying tropes that people come up with while arguing on the internet. RTS blogger Ken Lovell mentioned was the assumption that if you [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/06/04/unjustified-presumptuous-and-downright-irritating/#comment-279455</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 13:55:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5401#comment-279455</guid>
		<description>I should apologise?  Because you hate me?  Get a grip.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should apologise?  Because you hate me?  Get a grip.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: G. H. Schorel-Hlavka</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/06/04/unjustified-presumptuous-and-downright-irritating/#comment-279271</link>
		<dc:creator>G. H. Schorel-Hlavka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 05:20:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5401#comment-279271</guid>
		<description>As Author of books and postings I cop it time and again as to be bias, even so the article seeks to specifically clarify no bias is intended but for purpose of explanation an example is used.
With my books, I include the disclaimer shown below, albeit not one to use in every posting on the internet.
Basically, if someone desires to criticise then that person will and take matters out of context no matter what. 
As a writer my concern is that I view having attempted to present my article in the most appropriate manner and if someone still takes offence to something then tough luck for them.
.
Enjoy reading the disclaimer
.
QUOTE
Disclaimer
DO NOT RELY UPON THE CONTENT, OR ANY PARTS OF IT, AS TO BE LEGAL ADVICE. THE CONTENT OF THIS BOOK IS NOT INTENDED AND NEITHER MUST BE PERCEIVED TO BE CONTAINING LEGAL ADVICE, AND NO RESPONSIBILITY WILL BE ACCEPTED OF ANYONE USING ANY OF THE MATERIAL CONTAINED IN THIS BOOK. (Not even for usage in a BANANA REPUBLIC!)
The Author/publisher does not endorse all material contained within this book, but merely has included items as to give a comprehensive overview, regardless that the Author/publisher may not support or have contradictive views regarding the statements contained in certain material.
All content is provided in accordance with the inalienable right to freedom of speech, and is intended for information, education, entertainment and positive social change purposes only. The information is provided as is, without any guarantee of suitability for any purpose. The Author does not support any of the content of material provided by others unless so expressly stated by the Author to the extend the Author believes it to be truthful and/or accurate irrespective if it might be truthful and/or accurate. It is the truth as the author sees it. That does not necessarily mean it is the truth and/or accurate. He could be totally and absolutely wrong on all points. Decide for yourself. You are entirely responsible for your use, or misuse, of this information. Before using any information, you are advised to consult a competent professional (If you can find one! Good luck, as you have more luck in trying to find a needle in a haystack, if you get the message!) who can advise you according to your specific circumstances, which will vary from person to person. The Author of this work and the information provided within it does not and neither intends to challenge and/or threaten the lawful and competent exercise of authority of any lawful government or agents thereof. The fundamental purpose of this work and the intent of the Author is to help create a just society (To my perception what is just!) that respect and conduct itself within the constitutional provisions as existing at the time of federation and amended by subsequent successful referendums.
END QUOTE</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As Author of books and postings I cop it time and again as to be bias, even so the article seeks to specifically clarify no bias is intended but for purpose of explanation an example is used.<br />
With my books, I include the disclaimer shown below, albeit not one to use in every posting on the internet.<br />
Basically, if someone desires to criticise then that person will and take matters out of context no matter what.<br />
As a writer my concern is that I view having attempted to present my article in the most appropriate manner and if someone still takes offence to something then tough luck for them.<br />
.<br />
Enjoy reading the disclaimer<br />
.<br />
QUOTE<br />
Disclaimer<br />
DO NOT RELY UPON THE CONTENT, OR ANY PARTS OF IT, AS TO BE LEGAL ADVICE. THE CONTENT OF THIS BOOK IS NOT INTENDED AND NEITHER MUST BE PERCEIVED TO BE CONTAINING LEGAL ADVICE, AND NO RESPONSIBILITY WILL BE ACCEPTED OF ANYONE USING ANY OF THE MATERIAL CONTAINED IN THIS BOOK. (Not even for usage in a BANANA REPUBLIC!)<br />
The Author/publisher does not endorse all material contained within this book, but merely has included items as to give a comprehensive overview, regardless that the Author/publisher may not support or have contradictive views regarding the statements contained in certain material.<br />
All content is provided in accordance with the inalienable right to freedom of speech, and is intended for information, education, entertainment and positive social change purposes only. The information is provided as is, without any guarantee of suitability for any purpose. The Author does not support any of the content of material provided by others unless so expressly stated by the Author to the extend the Author believes it to be truthful and/or accurate irrespective if it might be truthful and/or accurate. It is the truth as the author sees it. That does not necessarily mean it is the truth and/or accurate. He could be totally and absolutely wrong on all points. Decide for yourself. You are entirely responsible for your use, or misuse, of this information. Before using any information, you are advised to consult a competent professional (If you can find one! Good luck, as you have more luck in trying to find a needle in a haystack, if you get the message!) who can advise you according to your specific circumstances, which will vary from person to person. The Author of this work and the information provided within it does not and neither intends to challenge and/or threaten the lawful and competent exercise of authority of any lawful government or agents thereof. The fundamental purpose of this work and the intent of the Author is to help create a just society (To my perception what is just!) that respect and conduct itself within the constitutional provisions as existing at the time of federation and amended by subsequent successful referendums.<br />
END QUOTE</p>
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		<title>By: melaleuca</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/06/04/unjustified-presumptuous-and-downright-irritating/#comment-279256</link>
		<dc:creator>melaleuca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 02:20:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5401#comment-279256</guid>
		<description>"Steve, the man in the link I posted in that comment you’ve linked to assaulted me when I was 16, and oh did you happen see the date he’s getting out of jail? It’s not all about you you know"

You made it about me when you associated me with his name.  You should apologize.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Steve, the man in the link I posted in that comment you’ve linked to assaulted me when I was 16, and oh did you happen see the date he’s getting out of jail? It’s not all about you you know&#8221;</p>
<p>You made it about me when you associated me with his name.  You should apologize.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: boynton</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/06/04/unjustified-presumptuous-and-downright-irritating/#comment-279248</link>
		<dc:creator>boynton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Jun 2008 01:15:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5401#comment-279248</guid>
		<description>Early sighting of the word &lt;a href="http://boyntonesque.blogspot.com/2004/09/hairdressers.html" rel="nofollow"&gt;blokosphere&lt;/a&gt;

Maybe nardo and nabs can claim joint coinage?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Early sighting of the word <a href="http://boyntonesque.blogspot.com/2004/09/hairdressers.html" >blokosphere</a></p>
<p>Maybe nardo and nabs can claim joint coinage?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Pavlov's Cat</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/06/04/unjustified-presumptuous-and-downright-irritating/#comment-279187</link>
		<dc:creator>Pavlov's Cat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 15:30:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5401#comment-279187</guid>
		<description>Besides, Mel, your logic is bad. To say that the femisphere cops it is not to claim that the blokosphere doesn't. See the original post up the top there, where this very point is being made. 

FDB, having 'thesis' written on the front is all very well but the real question is this: &lt;a href="http://whatladder.wordpress.com/2008/03/26/in-which-i-am-unfair/" rel="nofollow"&gt;&lt;i&gt;did it have a dead duck stapled to it?&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Besides, Mel, your logic is bad. To say that the femisphere cops it is not to claim that the blokosphere doesn&#8217;t. See the original post up the top there, where this very point is being made. </p>
<p>FDB, having &#8216;thesis&#8217; written on the front is all very well but the real question is this: <a href="http://whatladder.wordpress.com/2008/03/26/in-which-i-am-unfair/" ><i>did it have a dead duck stapled to it?</i></a></p>
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		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/06/04/unjustified-presumptuous-and-downright-irritating/#comment-279167</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 13:08:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5401#comment-279167</guid>
		<description>Steve, the man in the link I posted in that comment you've linked to assaulted me when I was 16, and oh did you happen see the date he's getting out of jail?  It's not all about you you know</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve, the man in the link I posted in that comment you&#8217;ve linked to assaulted me when I was 16, and oh did you happen see the date he&#8217;s getting out of jail?  It&#8217;s not all about you you know</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: melaleuca</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/06/04/unjustified-presumptuous-and-downright-irritating/#comment-279088</link>
		<dc:creator>melaleuca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 10:14:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5401#comment-279088</guid>
		<description>Pavlov's Cat says:

"These topics have resulted in practically the entire femisphere finding ourselves being accused of actively going about looking for teenagers to sexually assault and babies to murder."

Oh really? Us in the blokpsphere had to cop shit like this: http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/05/30/do-the-right-thing-mainstream-media-disguise-the-faces-of-the-minors-in-your-reproductions-of-the-henson-images-now/#comment-473391</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pavlov&#8217;s Cat says:</p>
<p>&#8220;These topics have resulted in practically the entire femisphere finding ourselves being accused of actively going about looking for teenagers to sexually assault and babies to murder.&#8221;</p>
<p>Oh really? Us in the blokpsphere had to cop shit like this: <a href="http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/05/30/do-the-right-thing-mainstream-media-disguise-the-faces-of-the-minors-in-your-reproductions-of-the-henson-images-now/#comment-473391" >http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/05/30/do-the-right-thing-mainstream-media-disguise-the-faces-of-the-minors-in-your-reproductions-of-the-henson-images-now/#comment-473391</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: FDB</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/06/04/unjustified-presumptuous-and-downright-irritating/#comment-279059</link>
		<dc:creator>FDB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Jun 2008 05:33:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5401#comment-279059</guid>
		<description>I'm marking honours work. The one I'm stuck on is a godawful jumble of shite, just barely disguised as a thesis. [i.e. it's got 'thesis' written on the front]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m marking honours work. The one I&#8217;m stuck on is a godawful jumble of shite, just barely disguised as a thesis. [i.e. it's got 'thesis' written on the front]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Nabakov</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/06/04/unjustified-presumptuous-and-downright-irritating/#comment-278860</link>
		<dc:creator>Nabakov</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 15:40:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5401#comment-278860</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href="http://highclearing.com/index.php/archives/2006/04/07/4991" rel="nofollow"&gt;Everything you wanted to say about threadiquette but were afraid to post&lt;/a&gt;

Warning: I indulge in meta-pwn at #1060.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://highclearing.com/index.php/archives/2006/04/07/4991" >Everything you wanted to say about threadiquette but were afraid to post</a></p>
<p>Warning: I indulge in meta-pwn at #1060.</p>
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		<title>By: Pavlov's Cat</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/06/04/unjustified-presumptuous-and-downright-irritating/#comment-278785</link>
		<dc:creator>Pavlov's Cat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 13:03:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5401#comment-278785</guid>
		<description>Me too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Me too.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/06/04/unjustified-presumptuous-and-downright-irritating/#comment-278755</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 10:37:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5401#comment-278755</guid>
		<description>Hey Tim, I'm avoiding essay marking.  Sigh.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Tim, I&#8217;m avoiding essay marking.  Sigh.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Tim Quilty</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/06/04/unjustified-presumptuous-and-downright-irritating/#comment-278753</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim Quilty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 10:12:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5401#comment-278753</guid>
		<description>I was going to rile up at #6 Dr Faustus and suggest that another case in point would be that being pro-guns makes you automatically a nut, despite the best non-faked evidence both sides can come up with suggests gun control has at best minimal value in reducing violent crime, but by the time I got to the end of the thread I didn't really want to say that at all. 

Or, obviously I did, but with only as an aside. I actually just wanted to say how much I enjoy reading a CT thread like this, when you have some knowledge of the posters, nobody is arguing a particular ideological position, it gets a little whimsical... I like these blogs, it's a taste of an intellectual life that is otherwise mostly absent from my life in rural Australia. Anyway, I just felt I should say, on the off chance that anyone cares, that I reckon Club Troppo is really a great community. Or something like that.

It should be obvious by this point that I'm avoiding studying for uni exams by any means possible. Blokosphere. I really liked that, even if it was a typo. And femisphere too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was going to rile up at #6 Dr Faustus and suggest that another case in point would be that being pro-guns makes you automatically a nut, despite the best non-faked evidence both sides can come up with suggests gun control has at best minimal value in reducing violent crime, but by the time I got to the end of the thread I didn&#8217;t really want to say that at all. </p>
<p>Or, obviously I did, but with only as an aside. I actually just wanted to say how much I enjoy reading a CT thread like this, when you have some knowledge of the posters, nobody is arguing a particular ideological position, it gets a little whimsical&#8230; I like these blogs, it&#8217;s a taste of an intellectual life that is otherwise mostly absent from my life in rural Australia. Anyway, I just felt I should say, on the off chance that anyone cares, that I reckon Club Troppo is really a great community. Or something like that.</p>
<p>It should be obvious by this point that I&#8217;m avoiding studying for uni exams by any means possible. Blokosphere. I really liked that, even if it was a typo. And femisphere too.</p>
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		<title>By: Laura</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/06/04/unjustified-presumptuous-and-downright-irritating/#comment-278711</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 05:54:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5401#comment-278711</guid>
		<description>Tis rather bad - it's impossible to know exactly what people have been accused of, I think, via email and deleted comments.  

Ken, and Robin if you're reading, do you think that the specific presumptions you've listed - and the broader problem of people not listening to or reading [or not confining themselves to] what has actually been said or written - is notably worse in the blogosphere?  

Maybe it's just more visible here, because of comments and trackbacks, and maybe slightly exacerbated by the combination of unseemly haste and what I think of as Lady Catherine De Bourghism - "I MUST have my share of the conversation!"

But I suspect people are probably just as bad at listening and reading in other media.  It's only aggrieving where there's a lot of commenting going on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tis rather bad - it&#8217;s impossible to know exactly what people have been accused of, I think, via email and deleted comments.  </p>
<p>Ken, and Robin if you&#8217;re reading, do you think that the specific presumptions you&#8217;ve listed - and the broader problem of people not listening to or reading [or not confining themselves to] what has actually been said or written - is notably worse in the blogosphere?  </p>
<p>Maybe it&#8217;s just more visible here, because of comments and trackbacks, and maybe slightly exacerbated by the combination of unseemly haste and what I think of as Lady Catherine De Bourghism - &#8220;I MUST have my share of the conversation!&#8221;</p>
<p>But I suspect people are probably just as bad at listening and reading in other media.  It&#8217;s only aggrieving where there&#8217;s a lot of commenting going on.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: FDB</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/06/04/unjustified-presumptuous-and-downright-irritating/#comment-278702</link>
		<dc:creator>FDB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 04:30:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5401#comment-278702</guid>
		<description>No, I was implying that guilt - over your natural feminist baby-munching predatory tendencies - has you protesting things of which you've not yet been accused.

A bad joke, in other words.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, I was implying that guilt - over your natural feminist baby-munching predatory tendencies - has you protesting things of which you&#8217;ve not yet been accused.</p>
<p>A bad joke, in other words.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Pavlov's Cat</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/06/04/unjustified-presumptuous-and-downright-irritating/#comment-278689</link>
		<dc:creator>Pavlov's Cat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 02:13:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5401#comment-278689</guid>
		<description>Sorry, FDB, not with you; do you just mean that you think I'm exaggerating? (Though that line about protesting ladies has a different meaning from that.) The bit you quote was merely an illustration of the way the polarising thing works. While it was obviously meant to be hyperbolic, I can assure you there are conservative bloggers out there who really do think (and say) that women who are pro-choice must be enthusiastic about abortion, and other bloggers who really do think (and say) that anyone who supports Henson's right to artistic freedom must be pro-pedophile.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, FDB, not with you; do you just mean that you think I&#8217;m exaggerating? (Though that line about protesting ladies has a different meaning from that.) The bit you quote was merely an illustration of the way the polarising thing works. While it was obviously meant to be hyperbolic, I can assure you there are conservative bloggers out there who really do think (and say) that women who are pro-choice must be enthusiastic about abortion, and other bloggers who really do think (and say) that anyone who supports Henson&#8217;s right to artistic freedom must be pro-pedophile.</p>
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		<title>By: FDB</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/06/04/unjustified-presumptuous-and-downright-irritating/#comment-278681</link>
		<dc:creator>FDB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 01:34:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5401#comment-278681</guid>
		<description>"practically the entire femisphere finding ourselves being accused of actively going about looking for teenagers to sexually assault and babies to murder"

The Lady doth protest too much, methinks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;practically the entire femisphere finding ourselves being accused of actively going about looking for teenagers to sexually assault and babies to murder&#8221;</p>
<p>The Lady doth protest too much, methinks.</p>
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		<title>By: Pavlov's Cat</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/06/04/unjustified-presumptuous-and-downright-irritating/#comment-278675</link>
		<dc:creator>Pavlov's Cat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jun 2008 00:48:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5401#comment-278675</guid>
		<description>'Blokosphere', I love it.

On nuance and polarisation, a further thought -- I constantly see in the blogosphere a high-speed, simplified version of something I observed on a major public scale twice when living in Melbourne: once when Geoffrey Blainey made his fatal remarks about Asian immigration and again during l'affaire &lt;i&gt;First Stone&lt;/i&gt;, when, in defending what they had originally said, both Blainey and Garner gradually moved towards a (rhetorically, at least) simplified and more entrenched position as more and more people aggressively piled on, accusing them of things they hadn't done and forcing them to defend positions they didn't actually hold. In both cases their original positions were far milder and more nuanced than some of the things they ended up saying later in self-defence. Most people know from experience that it's very hard in an argument, and sometimes doesn't even occur to you, to say 'Hold it right there, I don't accept the terms of your question.'

In the blogosphere this means that fights get more and more intellectually boring and more and more viciously personal as they move inexorably closer to violating Godwin's Law. Two examples: abortion and Bill Henson. These topics have resulted in practically the entire femisphere finding ourselves being accused of actively going about looking for teenagers to sexually assault and babies to murder.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;Blokosphere&#8217;, I love it.</p>
<p>On nuance and polarisation, a further thought &#8212; I constantly see in the blogosphere a high-speed, simplified version of something I observed on a major public scale twice when living in Melbourne: once when Geoffrey Blainey made his fatal remarks about Asian immigration and again during l&#8217;affaire <i>First Stone</i>, when, in defending what they had originally said, both Blainey and Garner gradually moved towards a (rhetorically, at least) simplified and more entrenched position as more and more people aggressively piled on, accusing them of things they hadn&#8217;t done and forcing them to defend positions they didn&#8217;t actually hold. In both cases their original positions were far milder and more nuanced than some of the things they ended up saying later in self-defence. Most people know from experience that it&#8217;s very hard in an argument, and sometimes doesn&#8217;t even occur to you, to say &#8216;Hold it right there, I don&#8217;t accept the terms of your question.&#8217;</p>
<p>In the blogosphere this means that fights get more and more intellectually boring and more and more viciously personal as they move inexorably closer to violating Godwin&#8217;s Law. Two examples: abortion and Bill Henson. These topics have resulted in practically the entire femisphere finding ourselves being accused of actively going about looking for teenagers to sexually assault and babies to murder.</p>
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		<title>By: Stewart</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/06/04/unjustified-presumptuous-and-downright-irritating/#comment-278516</link>
		<dc:creator>Stewart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 14:16:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5401#comment-278516</guid>
		<description>Though I write a blog, I'm reluctant to comment on other blogs precisely because, as Ken writes at the end of his post, the issues are so complicated that you need to disclaim and qualify so much, and if you say you're not sure, or express yourself tentatively - say on a complex issue like climate change - you're shouted down as an ignoramus. There's generally too much abuse and also too much in-talk. Much of the blokosphere shorthand I just don't get - maybe I spend too much time reading old-fashioned books.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Though I write a blog, I&#8217;m reluctant to comment on other blogs precisely because, as Ken writes at the end of his post, the issues are so complicated that you need to disclaim and qualify so much, and if you say you&#8217;re not sure, or express yourself tentatively - say on a complex issue like climate change - you&#8217;re shouted down as an ignoramus. There&#8217;s generally too much abuse and also too much in-talk. Much of the blokosphere shorthand I just don&#8217;t get - maybe I spend too much time reading old-fashioned books.</p>
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