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	<title>Comments on: What&#8217;s ugly?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/07/30/whats-ugly/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/07/30/whats-ugly/</link>
	<description>Fearlessly dispensing political, legal and economic analysis (and some whimsy) since 2002</description>
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		<title>By: Kevshot</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/07/30/whats-ugly/#comment-331611</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevshot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Nov 2008 00:27:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5540#comment-331611</guid>
		<description>Action: Solar Conversion of households

Solution: Government loans recoverable through personal tax and / or upon sale of house.

Action Closure of CBD to daytime traffic

Solution Closure of CBD between 07.00am  7.00pm, improved public 
transportation &amp; allowing electric vehicles. Parking sites for 
electric vehicles with recharge facility.

Action Conversion of Schools to Solar energy

Solution: Costs met from infrastructure and building funds, will allow schools to generate
income for the school during holidays through on selling to electric grids.

Action: Allowing electric scooters to be used in suburbs without registration or licence
requirements

Solution Govt to legalise electric scooters for road use without registration or licence
requirements

Action: Giving our Farmers a way out of financial trouble

Solution: Guiding entities interested in Solar or Wind Farming to lease arrangements with
farmers currently requiring Govt assistance.


Then we have street lighting, telephone boxes, sports oval lighting Government buildings all of which can be converted to alternative energy.

So what are the drawbacks, the initial cost of course is a drawback, this is where the Government needs to show the way and provide a scheme to help all.

The one thing they must not do is limit it to socio-economic groups, for a bold plan to reduce emissions to work, we need to forget about means testing the assistance to install conversions.

However, instead make the repayment terms match the financial circumstances of the people involved. This will ensure we all convert and this is a must to ensure a national action plan that will show the world that Australia is able to address the hard issues with true economic leadership as well as the easy.

I am unable to provide specific costing for these Actions and Solutions , however, I believe I have shown how to make a appropriate impact on emission reductions without making the public pay higher taxes as would be the case as a result of a ETS which does not in fact address the problem at the core and therefore is an inadequate proposal for its purpose in Australia.

It should be noted that I am not suggesting a mass giveaway by the Government, but instead a series of Government loans with simple recovery solutions. This will allow near to immediate reductions of Emissions, generate employment in the alternate energy companies, reduce household costs effectively in a shorter time period, force current fossil fueled Electricity suppliers to action changes in their production almost immediately.

It would be easy to service as the Government would be able to recover its debt through personal taxation or at the time of sale of the property involved. It would however be obligated to provide special funding grants to hospitals, schools etc to assist with their conversion. Due to the capacity of schools to generate income during holiday periods, this could be offset against their funding providing savings back to the Government..

As can be seen a majority of the funding the Government will supply is recoverable through the taxes of the individuals who actually have benefited. This makes it unusual as it is fair on the taxpayers who have not benefited from these loans, or have already repaid their loans. It is not unfair to those that have taken the initiative and already converted their homes without Government assistance, as these people will not be required to pay higher taxes to assist those that have not already converted.

Even the School conversions will provide long term Government savings to the funding they will require, due to the generation of income during school holidays.

Therefore apart from the initial short term capital required by the Government to fund these measures, generally the overall impact will be minimal over the long term due to the repayable nature of these loans.

Kevin &lt;strong&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Action: Solar Conversion of households</p>
<p>Solution: Government loans recoverable through personal tax and / or upon sale of house.</p>
<p>Action Closure of CBD to daytime traffic</p>
<p>Solution Closure of CBD between 07.00am  7.00pm, improved public<br />
transportation &amp; allowing electric vehicles. Parking sites for<br />
electric vehicles with recharge facility.</p>
<p>Action Conversion of Schools to Solar energy</p>
<p>Solution: Costs met from infrastructure and building funds, will allow schools to generate<br />
income for the school during holidays through on selling to electric grids.</p>
<p>Action: Allowing electric scooters to be used in suburbs without registration or licence<br />
requirements</p>
<p>Solution Govt to legalise electric scooters for road use without registration or licence<br />
requirements</p>
<p>Action: Giving our Farmers a way out of financial trouble</p>
<p>Solution: Guiding entities interested in Solar or Wind Farming to lease arrangements with<br />
farmers currently requiring Govt assistance.</p>
<p>Then we have street lighting, telephone boxes, sports oval lighting Government buildings all of which can be converted to alternative energy.</p>
<p>So what are the drawbacks, the initial cost of course is a drawback, this is where the Government needs to show the way and provide a scheme to help all.</p>
<p>The one thing they must not do is limit it to socio-economic groups, for a bold plan to reduce emissions to work, we need to forget about means testing the assistance to install conversions.</p>
<p>However, instead make the repayment terms match the financial circumstances of the people involved. This will ensure we all convert and this is a must to ensure a national action plan that will show the world that Australia is able to address the hard issues with true economic leadership as well as the easy.</p>
<p>I am unable to provide specific costing for these Actions and Solutions , however, I believe I have shown how to make a appropriate impact on emission reductions without making the public pay higher taxes as would be the case as a result of a ETS which does not in fact address the problem at the core and therefore is an inadequate proposal for its purpose in Australia.</p>
<p>It should be noted that I am not suggesting a mass giveaway by the Government, but instead a series of Government loans with simple recovery solutions. This will allow near to immediate reductions of Emissions, generate employment in the alternate energy companies, reduce household costs effectively in a shorter time period, force current fossil fueled Electricity suppliers to action changes in their production almost immediately.</p>
<p>It would be easy to service as the Government would be able to recover its debt through personal taxation or at the time of sale of the property involved. It would however be obligated to provide special funding grants to hospitals, schools etc to assist with their conversion. Due to the capacity of schools to generate income during holiday periods, this could be offset against their funding providing savings back to the Government..</p>
<p>As can be seen a majority of the funding the Government will supply is recoverable through the taxes of the individuals who actually have benefited. This makes it unusual as it is fair on the taxpayers who have not benefited from these loans, or have already repaid their loans. It is not unfair to those that have taken the initiative and already converted their homes without Government assistance, as these people will not be required to pay higher taxes to assist those that have not already converted.</p>
<p>Even the School conversions will provide long term Government savings to the funding they will require, due to the generation of income during school holidays.</p>
<p>Therefore apart from the initial short term capital required by the Government to fund these measures, generally the overall impact will be minimal over the long term due to the repayable nature of these loans.</p>
<p>Kevin <strong></strong></p>
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		<title>By: NPOV</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/07/30/whats-ugly/#comment-300126</link>
		<dc:creator>NPOV</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 22:52:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5540#comment-300126</guid>
		<description>Actually, I don&#039;t doubt at all that if it had been left entirely to individuals and private businesses to look after all transport infrastructure over the last 100 years it would be a lot more varied and less car-centric than it is now.  But no city in the world has been able to pull off such a feat, AFAIK.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, I don&#8217;t doubt at all that if it had been left entirely to individuals and private businesses to look after all transport infrastructure over the last 100 years it would be a lot more varied and less car-centric than it is now.  But no city in the world has been able to pull off such a feat, AFAIK.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/07/30/whats-ugly/#comment-300122</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 22:40:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5540#comment-300122</guid>
		<description>Ah, the woes and perils of state intervention - I feel your pain!

;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, the woes and perils of state intervention &#8211; I feel your pain!</p>
<p>;)</p>
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		<title>By: NPOV</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/07/30/whats-ugly/#comment-299860</link>
		<dc:creator>NPOV</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Aug 2008 03:46:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5540#comment-299860</guid>
		<description>I have no regrets, just annoyed that governments have consistently provided far more for cars than other forms of transport over the last century.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have no regrets, just annoyed that governments have consistently provided far more for cars than other forms of transport over the last century.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/07/30/whats-ugly/#comment-299768</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 23:39:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5540#comment-299768</guid>
		<description>Regrets that the &lt;em&gt;other &lt;/em&gt;people did, like you are having now, sure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regrets that the <em>other </em>people did, like you are having now, sure.</p>
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		<title>By: NPOV</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/07/30/whats-ugly/#comment-299767</link>
		<dc:creator>NPOV</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 23:28:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5540#comment-299767</guid>
		<description>Well yes, everybody&#039;s happy when they buy their first car.  It&#039;s only once they realise the consequences of millions and millions of people doing so over a long period of time that they&#039;re likely to have any regrets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well yes, everybody&#8217;s happy when they buy their first car.  It&#8217;s only once they realise the consequences of millions and millions of people doing so over a long period of time that they&#8217;re likely to have any regrets.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/07/30/whats-ugly/#comment-299541</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 08:25:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5540#comment-299541</guid>
		<description>&lt;strike&gt;Sad&lt;/strike&gt;&lt;strong&gt;Happy &lt;/strong&gt;reality for those fortunate enough to be buying the cars in question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strike>Sad</strike><strong>Happy </strong>reality for those fortunate enough to be buying the cars in question.</p>
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		<title>By: NPOV</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/07/30/whats-ugly/#comment-299539</link>
		<dc:creator>NPOV</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 08:17:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5540#comment-299539</guid>
		<description>Of course, the sad reality is that the Chinese and Indians are converting from bicycles to cars at a far faster rate than the rest of the world could hope to go the other way.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, the sad reality is that the Chinese and Indians are converting from bicycles to cars at a far faster rate than the rest of the world could hope to go the other way.</p>
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		<title>By: pablo</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/07/30/whats-ugly/#comment-299534</link>
		<dc:creator>pablo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 07:41:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5540#comment-299534</guid>
		<description>Overhead wires might have their optical appeal but for me the aural memory of cycling down a Joghjakarta main road, 6+ abreast in the 1970&#039;s with only the sound of bicycle bells. Ohhh if only such a repeat were possible in 2010. The europeans have kicked off but how far are we behind?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Overhead wires might have their optical appeal but for me the aural memory of cycling down a Joghjakarta main road, 6+ abreast in the 1970&#8242;s with only the sound of bicycle bells. Ohhh if only such a repeat were possible in 2010. The europeans have kicked off but how far are we behind?</p>
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		<title>By: Nicholas Gruen</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/07/30/whats-ugly/#comment-299532</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicholas Gruen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 07:28:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5540#comment-299532</guid>
		<description>What about hiding transponders into these things so you could detect them when they were being taken out of the zone they&#039;re authorised to be in.  And one would have thought that one could set up particular routes for tourists - like St Kilda to the city.

Just a thought.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What about hiding transponders into these things so you could detect them when they were being taken out of the zone they&#8217;re authorised to be in.  And one would have thought that one could set up particular routes for tourists &#8211; like St Kilda to the city.</p>
<p>Just a thought.</p>
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		<title>By: Francis Xavier Holden</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/07/30/whats-ugly/#comment-299528</link>
		<dc:creator>Francis Xavier Holden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 07:05:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5540#comment-299528</guid>
		<description>I have my doubts about the business model - I suspect lots of hidden local/state government subsidies. In Melb (australia) I&#039;d be worried about mindless vandalism (as opposed to the other kind of vandalism) and lumpy demand.

I&#039;d say they will go crazy on St Kilda Rd between Flinders Street and St Kilda Junction where the trams are always chockers, and often don&#039;t stop because they are full, and the road is flat and has side lanes. I can&#039;t see much demand for grabbing one at Swanston or Elizebeth and riding UP Collins.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have my doubts about the business model &#8211; I suspect lots of hidden local/state government subsidies. In Melb (australia) I&#8217;d be worried about mindless vandalism (as opposed to the other kind of vandalism) and lumpy demand.</p>
<p>I&#8217;d say they will go crazy on St Kilda Rd between Flinders Street and St Kilda Junction where the trams are always chockers, and often don&#8217;t stop because they are full, and the road is flat and has side lanes. I can&#8217;t see much demand for grabbing one at Swanston or Elizebeth and riding UP Collins.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe D</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/07/30/whats-ugly/#comment-299524</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe D</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 06:30:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5540#comment-299524</guid>
		<description>In Marseilles and Montpellier the same things aren&#039;t particularly noticeable and they have no ads, but they seem to be popular (lots of tourists and students) so maybe the numbers do pay for it all there, or there is a subsidy. It is a shame the bikes are so heavy but no-one seems to mind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In Marseilles and Montpellier the same things aren&#8217;t particularly noticeable and they have no ads, but they seem to be popular (lots of tourists and students) so maybe the numbers do pay for it all there, or there is a subsidy. It is a shame the bikes are so heavy but no-one seems to mind.</p>
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		<title>By: NPOV</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/07/30/whats-ugly/#comment-299516</link>
		<dc:creator>NPOV</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 05:45:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5540#comment-299516</guid>
		<description>I agree wilful - even if CO2 emissions weren&#039;t a problem, there&#039;s dozens of good environmental, economic and qualify-of-life reasons for encouraging people out of cars and into bicycles.  Driving in Paris is bad enough already - I&#039;d wager if all trips currently taken by bicycle were done in cars instead, Paris would be almost unliveable, and everyone would be unfit and overweight (indeed, one of the things I enjoyed about Paris is seeing people that look fit and healthy - and not occasionally stunning!).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree wilful &#8211; even if CO2 emissions weren&#8217;t a problem, there&#8217;s dozens of good environmental, economic and qualify-of-life reasons for encouraging people out of cars and into bicycles.  Driving in Paris is bad enough already &#8211; I&#8217;d wager if all trips currently taken by bicycle were done in cars instead, Paris would be almost unliveable, and everyone would be unfit and overweight (indeed, one of the things I enjoyed about Paris is seeing people that look fit and healthy &#8211; and not occasionally stunning!).</p>
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		<title>By: wilful</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/07/30/whats-ugly/#comment-299411</link>
		<dc:creator>wilful</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 Jul 2008 01:19:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5540#comment-299411</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure how you could say it doesn&#039;t make economic sense, &quot;except for the ads&quot;. They were always part and parcel of it, it wouldn&#039;t have happened otherwise. And the CO2 emissions are only a small part of the environmental sense, there&#039;s a lot more to the environment than carbon emissions - health, livability, etc.

The Optus cables complaints were for suburban residential streets with a lot less clutter. Big difference. One of the things about new suburbs that is pleasant is that all the linear infrastructure is hidden underground. Much nicer, and in the long run cost effective.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure how you could say it doesn&#8217;t make economic sense, &#8220;except for the ads&#8221;. They were always part and parcel of it, it wouldn&#8217;t have happened otherwise. And the CO2 emissions are only a small part of the environmental sense, there&#8217;s a lot more to the environment than carbon emissions &#8211; health, livability, etc.</p>
<p>The Optus cables complaints were for suburban residential streets with a lot less clutter. Big difference. One of the things about new suburbs that is pleasant is that all the linear infrastructure is hidden underground. Much nicer, and in the long run cost effective.</p>
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		<title>By: FDB</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/07/30/whats-ugly/#comment-299396</link>
		<dc:creator>FDB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 23:25:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5540#comment-299396</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve got a lovely huge-format photo artwork a mate of mine did featuring wires. It&#039;s called &lt;i&gt;Look up - wires!&lt;/i&gt;. It&#039;s cool.

Just sayin&#039;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve got a lovely huge-format photo artwork a mate of mine did featuring wires. It&#8217;s called <i>Look up &#8211; wires!</i>. It&#8217;s cool.</p>
<p>Just sayin&#8217;</p>
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		<title>By: dr faustus</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/07/30/whats-ugly/#comment-299395</link>
		<dc:creator>dr faustus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 23:12:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5540#comment-299395</guid>
		<description>Since moving to Canberra from Melbourne, one of the things I really miss is trams. Especially having lived in Carlton, Richmond and Brunswick, trams were my only form of transportation (other than Shank&#039;s Pony) for many, many years.

Canberra has buses, but they&#039;re just not the same. There is something about a tram line which says, &quot;at some point, a tram will come past here&quot;. They seem much more available than buses (even though they can actually be quite irregular).

What I don&#039;t miss is driving behind trams, or driving on a road which has tram tracks in the wet. 

Still, there is talk in Canberra about installing a light rail (only talk - it&#039;s an election year), which would be a great thing. But it may make me miss my trams even more.

(Bikes are very popular in Canberra too, but I know too many people who have been hit riding bikes to feel comfortable riding on a road myself.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since moving to Canberra from Melbourne, one of the things I really miss is trams. Especially having lived in Carlton, Richmond and Brunswick, trams were my only form of transportation (other than Shank&#8217;s Pony) for many, many years.</p>
<p>Canberra has buses, but they&#8217;re just not the same. There is something about a tram line which says, &#8220;at some point, a tram will come past here&#8221;. They seem much more available than buses (even though they can actually be quite irregular).</p>
<p>What I don&#8217;t miss is driving behind trams, or driving on a road which has tram tracks in the wet. </p>
<p>Still, there is talk in Canberra about installing a light rail (only talk &#8211; it&#8217;s an election year), which would be a great thing. But it may make me miss my trams even more.</p>
<p>(Bikes are very popular in Canberra too, but I know too many people who have been hit riding bikes to feel comfortable riding on a road myself.)</p>
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		<title>By: Rex</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/07/30/whats-ugly/#comment-299391</link>
		<dc:creator>Rex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 23:03:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5540#comment-299391</guid>
		<description>The Germans have managed to do the same things as the Parisiens without needing the Kiosk and the expensive auto locking bike stands.  Deutchr Bahn &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.bahn.de/p/view/mobilitaet/fahrrad/call_a_bike.shtml&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;offer a service&lt;/a&gt; where you first call a hotline and register. 

Whenever you find an available bike you call the hotline. They give you an unlock code for the wheel lock and away you go.   When you&#039;re finished you lock it up to a traffic sign or whatever and tell them you&#039;re done.

It lacks the communal gathering place vibe of the Paris scenario - but seems a pretty efficient idea to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Germans have managed to do the same things as the Parisiens without needing the Kiosk and the expensive auto locking bike stands.  Deutchr Bahn <a href="http://www.bahn.de/p/view/mobilitaet/fahrrad/call_a_bike.shtml">offer a service</a> where you first call a hotline and register. </p>
<p>Whenever you find an available bike you call the hotline. They give you an unlock code for the wheel lock and away you go.   When you&#8217;re finished you lock it up to a traffic sign or whatever and tell them you&#8217;re done.</p>
<p>It lacks the communal gathering place vibe of the Paris scenario &#8211; but seems a pretty efficient idea to me.</p>
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