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	<title>Comments on: Ludwig von Mises</title>
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	<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/09/25/ludwig-von-mises/</link>
	<description>Fearlessly dispensing political, legal and economic analysis (and some whimsy) since 2002</description>
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		<title>By: Jacques Chester</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/09/25/ludwig-von-mises/#comment-320403</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques Chester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 06:49:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5906#comment-320403</guid>
		<description>Tom;

I honestly think you are overcooking your goose, mate. It&#039;s just a blog. Reputational costs, lectoids, externalities; all can be banished with the flick of an eye and the click of a button.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom;</p>
<p>I honestly think you are overcooking your goose, mate. It&#8217;s just a blog. Reputational costs, lectoids, externalities; all can be banished with the flick of an eye and the click of a button.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom N.</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/09/25/ludwig-von-mises/#comment-320375</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom N.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 01:57:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5906#comment-320375</guid>
		<description>Rafe, of course I cannot rule out that if I read more of your posts on Mises and the Austrians, I might learn something useful. Equally, I cannot rule out that if I read another edition of Mills and Boon, I might learn something useful. However, I have limited time and intellectual resources to devote to the pursuit of knowledge, and that pursuit has opportunity costs, so one needs to be selective. So, no, I will not be reading any more of your posts on these matters.

You say that others might want to - and again one cannot rule that out - but the issue here is whether your cluttering Troppo with Austrian lectoids has reputational externalities that will harm other contributors, and will add to the search costs and annoyance factor for visitors such that there is a net drop off in interest. My judgment is that they will, and notwithstanding Ken&#039;s natural noninterventionist leanings, I think its something that the collective contributors to Troppo should think seriously about, and act on, if Rafe himself will not desist from polluting this space.

Pedro - perhaps I used the wrong term when I said &#039;centrist&#039;; the real (sub)point is that, relative to many other blogs, on Troppo most commentators let facts influence their understandings of the world, rather than searching for facts to justify their understandings. If I wanted to get right wing or left wing spin on things, I would go elsewhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rafe, of course I cannot rule out that if I read more of your posts on Mises and the Austrians, I might learn something useful. Equally, I cannot rule out that if I read another edition of Mills and Boon, I might learn something useful. However, I have limited time and intellectual resources to devote to the pursuit of knowledge, and that pursuit has opportunity costs, so one needs to be selective. So, no, I will not be reading any more of your posts on these matters.</p>
<p>You say that others might want to &#8211; and again one cannot rule that out &#8211; but the issue here is whether your cluttering Troppo with Austrian lectoids has reputational externalities that will harm other contributors, and will add to the search costs and annoyance factor for visitors such that there is a net drop off in interest. My judgment is that they will, and notwithstanding Ken&#8217;s natural noninterventionist leanings, I think its something that the collective contributors to Troppo should think seriously about, and act on, if Rafe himself will not desist from polluting this space.</p>
<p>Pedro &#8211; perhaps I used the wrong term when I said &#8216;centrist&#8217;; the real (sub)point is that, relative to many other blogs, on Troppo most commentators let facts influence their understandings of the world, rather than searching for facts to justify their understandings. If I wanted to get right wing or left wing spin on things, I would go elsewhere.</p>
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		<title>By: pedro</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/09/25/ludwig-von-mises/#comment-320354</link>
		<dc:creator>pedro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 23:45:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5906#comment-320354</guid>
		<description>And thanks for the link Rafe, got to love a free book.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And thanks for the link Rafe, got to love a free book.</p>
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		<title>By: pedro</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/09/25/ludwig-von-mises/#comment-320353</link>
		<dc:creator>pedro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 23:43:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5906#comment-320353</guid>
		<description>I should have thought a site focused on the &quot;centre&quot; needs a bit from each wing to illustrate centerist positions by contradistinction and any centrist position must include a balance of either side anyway.

It is always disappointing when idealogical labels are used to filter participation in a discussion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should have thought a site focused on the &#8220;centre&#8221; needs a bit from each wing to illustrate centerist positions by contradistinction and any centrist position must include a balance of either side anyway.</p>
<p>It is always disappointing when idealogical labels are used to filter participation in a discussion.</p>
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		<title>By: rog</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/09/25/ludwig-von-mises/#comment-320314</link>
		<dc:creator>rog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 07:24:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5906#comment-320314</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;30Hayek to Mises, letter dated January 12, 1941; Grove City Archive:
Hayek files. He went on:
I am trying hard to show to people how this present trend leads inevitably to economic decay and fascism and I shall follow up my pamphlet with a more popular booklet (probably in one of the sixpenny series) on which I am now working, apart from the larger book, which is slowly progressing&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>30Hayek to Mises, letter dated January 12, 1941; Grove City Archive:<br />
Hayek files. He went on:<br />
I am trying hard to show to people how this present trend leads inevitably to economic decay and fascism and I shall follow up my pamphlet with a more popular booklet (probably in one of the sixpenny series) on which I am now working, apart from the larger book, which is slowly progressing</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: rog</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/09/25/ludwig-von-mises/#comment-320312</link>
		<dc:creator>rog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 07:21:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5906#comment-320312</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve just skimmed thru it, chapter 5 is interesting as it describes the meeting of Mises, Hazllitt and Hayek in the US during WW2 and concerns at the direction of US thinking against the backdrop of totalitarianism and holocaust;

&lt;blockquote&gt;I agree entirely with what you say about the horrible state of economic thinking here and in the U.S.A. That at the present time when one can at least have some hope for the immediate future the long run outlook should be so dark is really dreadful.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve just skimmed thru it, chapter 5 is interesting as it describes the meeting of Mises, Hazllitt and Hayek in the US during WW2 and concerns at the direction of US thinking against the backdrop of totalitarianism and holocaust;</p>
<blockquote><p>I agree entirely with what you say about the horrible state of economic thinking here and in the U.S.A. That at the present time when one can at least have some hope for the immediate future the long run outlook should be so dark is really dreadful.
</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Rafe Champion</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/09/25/ludwig-von-mises/#comment-320310</link>
		<dc:creator>Rafe Champion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 06:53:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5906#comment-320310</guid>
		<description>Tom, do you know enough about the contribution of Mises and the Austrian school to know in advance of further posts that you have nothing useful to learn?  You sound like the people who refused to look through Galileo&#039;s telescope for fear of having their theories challenged by evidence.

Some of the events and incidents in the life of Mises are interesting regardless of the merits of Austrian economics. Like the complexity and ramifications of the Austro-Hungarian empire and the activities of Nazi agents in Vienna, even before Hitler formally took over.

In deference to the people who find some of my concerns to be tedious, I intend to post on a range of issues, as in the past, so there is likely to be something for everyone. 

I also intend to post regularly on current work that is being done by Austrians  because I think it has value and there is quite likely  no other significant blog in Australia where you will find this material. It might even attract some people to Troppo, quite likely more than will be driven away by the need to skip over a couple of paras before the fold.

If people can produce arguments and evidence to show that the Austrians (as I understand them) are on the wrong track I will emulate Keynes and change my mind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tom, do you know enough about the contribution of Mises and the Austrian school to know in advance of further posts that you have nothing useful to learn?  You sound like the people who refused to look through Galileo&#8217;s telescope for fear of having their theories challenged by evidence.</p>
<p>Some of the events and incidents in the life of Mises are interesting regardless of the merits of Austrian economics. Like the complexity and ramifications of the Austro-Hungarian empire and the activities of Nazi agents in Vienna, even before Hitler formally took over.</p>
<p>In deference to the people who find some of my concerns to be tedious, I intend to post on a range of issues, as in the past, so there is likely to be something for everyone. </p>
<p>I also intend to post regularly on current work that is being done by Austrians  because I think it has value and there is quite likely  no other significant blog in Australia where you will find this material. It might even attract some people to Troppo, quite likely more than will be driven away by the need to skip over a couple of paras before the fold.</p>
<p>If people can produce arguments and evidence to show that the Austrians (as I understand them) are on the wrong track I will emulate Keynes and change my mind.</p>
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		<title>By: FDB</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/09/25/ludwig-von-mises/#comment-320307</link>
		<dc:creator>FDB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 06:26:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5906#comment-320307</guid>
		<description>Having had the odd run-in with Rafe I can only agree with Ken. Yes he&#039;s tendentious, yes he can go on a bit, but he&#039;s a gent and a scholar.

FFS - Tom N just spent much longer composing his whinge than it would have taken to avoid a hundred Rafe posts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having had the odd run-in with Rafe I can only agree with Ken. Yes he&#8217;s tendentious, yes he can go on a bit, but he&#8217;s a gent and a scholar.</p>
<p>FFS &#8211; Tom N just spent much longer composing his whinge than it would have taken to avoid a hundred Rafe posts.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Parish</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/09/25/ludwig-von-mises/#comment-320304</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Parish</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 06:07:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5906#comment-320304</guid>
		<description>I often find Rafe&#039;s stuff on Austrian economics significantly less rivetting than reading the White Pages.  However, no doubt some readers react to my posts in the same way. We all have our own private obsessions in one way or another. Rafe&#039;s Mises post has only 3 paragraphs displayed on the Troppo front page, so I fail to see how there are significant &quot;transaction costs&quot; to publishing it.  It really isn&#039;t an imposition simply to scroll past it without reading.  Moreover, it&#039;s one of 20 separate posts published here over the last week so it&#039;s not as if it&#039;s crowding out other material.

Rafe is a venerable blogging pioneer, and almost a blogosphere institution.  He certainly merits a forum for his ideas even if quite a few readers find his obsessions tiresome, and we&#039;re happy to provide a forum here at Troppo.  Moreover, Rafe&#039;s style and approach are the eptitome of civility, he almost never descends to ad hominem abuse, and that&#039;s a quality we prize highly here.  Feel free to ignore his posts or disagree, but demands to ban Rafe are frankly unworthy IMO.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I often find Rafe&#8217;s stuff on Austrian economics significantly less rivetting than reading the White Pages.  However, no doubt some readers react to my posts in the same way. We all have our own private obsessions in one way or another. Rafe&#8217;s Mises post has only 3 paragraphs displayed on the Troppo front page, so I fail to see how there are significant &#8220;transaction costs&#8221; to publishing it.  It really isn&#8217;t an imposition simply to scroll past it without reading.  Moreover, it&#8217;s one of 20 separate posts published here over the last week so it&#8217;s not as if it&#8217;s crowding out other material.</p>
<p>Rafe is a venerable blogging pioneer, and almost a blogosphere institution.  He certainly merits a forum for his ideas even if quite a few readers find his obsessions tiresome, and we&#8217;re happy to provide a forum here at Troppo.  Moreover, Rafe&#8217;s style and approach are the eptitome of civility, he almost never descends to ad hominem abuse, and that&#8217;s a quality we prize highly here.  Feel free to ignore his posts or disagree, but demands to ban Rafe are frankly unworthy IMO.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacques Chester</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/09/25/ludwig-von-mises/#comment-320303</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques Chester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 05:40:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5906#comment-320303</guid>
		<description>&quot;Savanarola&quot; has been banned effective immediately, as a few SQL queries have shown he&#039;s a serial pest. Future comments identified as his will be deleted without warning, his account has been removed, future accounts will be removed, and his various pseudonyms and false email addresses have been added to the auto-ban list.

Tom;

Rafe is actually a very long time posting member of Troppo and Austrian economics is his big subject of interest. It might be argued that the Austrians are more relevant than ever, being the &#039;third voice&#039; on monetary policy, a topic which has suddenly become a rather central topic of late.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Savanarola&#8221; has been banned effective immediately, as a few SQL queries have shown he&#8217;s a serial pest. Future comments identified as his will be deleted without warning, his account has been removed, future accounts will be removed, and his various pseudonyms and false email addresses have been added to the auto-ban list.</p>
<p>Tom;</p>
<p>Rafe is actually a very long time posting member of Troppo and Austrian economics is his big subject of interest. It might be argued that the Austrians are more relevant than ever, being the &#8216;third voice&#8217; on monetary policy, a topic which has suddenly become a rather central topic of late.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom N.</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/09/25/ludwig-von-mises/#comment-320302</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom N.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 05:36:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5906#comment-320302</guid>
		<description>Anonymous or not, I think there is a valid and important point in Savanarola&#039;s post. If Rafe is going to clutter Troppo with lectoids on the Austrians or other niche topics, then Troppo&#039;s attractiveness to many current visitors will, I suspect, decline. That, in turn, has implications for others who post on Troppo, as well as those of us who visit and sometimes comment.

It is not simply a matter of: &quot;well, if you&#039;re not interested, don&#039;t read it&quot;. When consuming blogs, there are transactions costs of filtering out uninteresting material - and people when surfing tend, I suspect, to be less tolerant of off-theme material than when, for example, sitting down with a glass of port and a potentially good book at the end of the day. 

One reason I come to Troppo is that I find a good majority of the posts to be interesting and stimulating, carefully argued, broadly centrist* and &lt;i&gt;with direct relevance to economic and related policy matters of the day (or, at least, the current millenium).&lt;/i&gt;  

At a minimum, I think Rafe should simply link to the forthcoming pieces on Mises that he has threatenned to put on Troppo proper, and be sparing in his future posts on other niche topics. Better still would be for hims to find a specialist blogsite on the history of economic thought etc where his stuff would be a better fit.

Tom N.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anonymous or not, I think there is a valid and important point in Savanarola&#8217;s post. If Rafe is going to clutter Troppo with lectoids on the Austrians or other niche topics, then Troppo&#8217;s attractiveness to many current visitors will, I suspect, decline. That, in turn, has implications for others who post on Troppo, as well as those of us who visit and sometimes comment.</p>
<p>It is not simply a matter of: &#8220;well, if you&#8217;re not interested, don&#8217;t read it&#8221;. When consuming blogs, there are transactions costs of filtering out uninteresting material &#8211; and people when surfing tend, I suspect, to be less tolerant of off-theme material than when, for example, sitting down with a glass of port and a potentially good book at the end of the day. </p>
<p>One reason I come to Troppo is that I find a good majority of the posts to be interesting and stimulating, carefully argued, broadly centrist* and <i>with direct relevance to economic and related policy matters of the day (or, at least, the current millenium).</i>  </p>
<p>At a minimum, I think Rafe should simply link to the forthcoming pieces on Mises that he has threatenned to put on Troppo proper, and be sparing in his future posts on other niche topics. Better still would be for hims to find a specialist blogsite on the history of economic thought etc where his stuff would be a better fit.</p>
<p>Tom N.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacques Chester</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/09/25/ludwig-von-mises/#comment-320297</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques Chester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 05:06:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5906#comment-320297</guid>
		<description>All parties will remain civil. This isn&#039;t catallaxy or LP and I have no qualms in waving the thread-locker or the ban-hammer.

And please, the &#039;mockpuppet&#039; names aren&#039;t funny or clever. They&#039;re just annoying. Leave it at LP, please.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>All parties will remain civil. This isn&#8217;t catallaxy or LP and I have no qualms in waving the thread-locker or the ban-hammer.</p>
<p>And please, the &#8216;mockpuppet&#8217; names aren&#8217;t funny or clever. They&#8217;re just annoying. Leave it at LP, please.</p>
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		<title>By: Rafe Champion</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/09/25/ludwig-von-mises/#comment-320268</link>
		<dc:creator>Rafe Champion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 03:28:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=5906#comment-320268</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t you admire the courage of these anonymous critics!
Why are you so afraid of the Austrians?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t you admire the courage of these anonymous critics!<br />
Why are you so afraid of the Austrians?</p>
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