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	<title>Comments on: Deposit Insurance: dealing with the wholesale ramifications</title>
	<atom:link href="http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/10/28/deposit-insurance-dealing-with-the-wholesale-ramifications/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/10/28/deposit-insurance-dealing-with-the-wholesale-ramifications/</link>
	<description>Fearlessly dispensing political, legal and economic analysis (and some whimsy) since 2002</description>
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		<title>By: Jacques Chester</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/10/28/deposit-insurance-dealing-with-the-wholesale-ramifications/#comment-327205</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques Chester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 03:18:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=6239#comment-327205</guid>
		<description>pedro;

The most dangerous leader is one who wants to seem decisive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>pedro;</p>
<p>The most dangerous leader is one who wants to seem decisive.</p>
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		<title>By: pedro</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/10/28/deposit-insurance-dealing-with-the-wholesale-ramifications/#comment-327172</link>
		<dc:creator>pedro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Oct 2008 00:55:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=6239#comment-327172</guid>
		<description>And now Jacques, the next side effect is that Perpetual and the others are being encouraged to turn into banks.  Way to save face guys!

Sinclair is right, Rudd should have done a Beatie.  You can apologise for stuff ups and increase your vote if you do it right.  

This morning I heard about a survey result showing 40% of the lump sum payments will be saved.  The extension of the FHOG for used houses isn&#039;t going to do much useful stimulating either, but perhaps the idea is to support the prices of cheaper houses and thus minimise flow on effects from negative equity phobia.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And now Jacques, the next side effect is that Perpetual and the others are being encouraged to turn into banks.  Way to save face guys!</p>
<p>Sinclair is right, Rudd should have done a Beatie.  You can apologise for stuff ups and increase your vote if you do it right.  </p>
<p>This morning I heard about a survey result showing 40% of the lump sum payments will be saved.  The extension of the FHOG for used houses isn&#8217;t going to do much useful stimulating either, but perhaps the idea is to support the prices of cheaper houses and thus minimise flow on effects from negative equity phobia.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacques Chester</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/10/28/deposit-insurance-dealing-with-the-wholesale-ramifications/#comment-327163</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques Chester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 21:57:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=6239#comment-327163</guid>
		<description>JC;

You&#039;re right, I think. But if there&#039;s a bank guarantee intervention then one limited by existing deposits would surely have been less disruptive and distortionary.

This whole episode reminds me of the speech by Mises where explains that interventions always beget more interventions. Each one has unintended side effects which lead to a new law, which has unintended side effects, which lead to a new law ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JC;</p>
<p>You&#8217;re right, I think. But if there&#8217;s a bank guarantee intervention then one limited by existing deposits would surely have been less disruptive and distortionary.</p>
<p>This whole episode reminds me of the speech by Mises where explains that interventions always beget more interventions. Each one has unintended side effects which lead to a new law, which has unintended side effects, which lead to a new law &#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Sinclair Davidson</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/10/28/deposit-insurance-dealing-with-the-wholesale-ramifications/#comment-327005</link>
		<dc:creator>Sinclair Davidson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 08:28:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=6239#comment-327005</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m inclined to agree with Fred - the government could (and should) have quickly said &#039;our bad - stuff-up, but let&#039;s all calm down and move quickly to plan B&#039;. By the time the next election rolled around everyone would have forgotten. The best thing would have been to do nothing, and follow the Bagehot principle (lend at penalty rates to good collateral) if need be. Following that they should have gone for something along Jacques lines (although JC identifies the problem here) but how about the government gaurantees up to $x that was in an institution at 12 am the night before the announcement. But that is still very much a second best alternative. As both Mr Rudd and Mr Swan said, and I agree, Australian banks (at least the big 4, plus one) are sound - so the Bagehot principle would have worked well in our context. 

Australia would have been buffeted by an international crisis, but this is now a domestic stuff-up that will undermine domestic confidence. The other problem is that it has taken the $10.4bn spending package off the frontpage. Unlike Nick - who had an interesting piece in the Fin last week (and republished here) - I am not as sanguine about that decision. Ken Henry has had a torrid week and I don&#039;t want to pick on him more than necessary (the government should not turn public servants into political footballs and then complain when they get kicked) but last year he was, rightly, talking about the 3Ps - population, participation and productivity. They haven&#039;t gone away just because there is a crisis on. The &#039;go hard, go early, go household&#039; slogan is all well and good subject to the 3Ps. 

What we now have is a policy whereby the banks have a subsidy from government that they will share between their shareholders and customers (John Hewson had a good op-ed in the Friday Fin on this, but he ignored the customers). So my mortgage rate has come down again, and I&#039;m happy with that, but it is at the expense of the taxpayer and those who&#039;ve had their savings frozen (as an individual that suits me - at last some value for my tax dollar - but bad policy is always problematic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m inclined to agree with Fred &#8211; the government could (and should) have quickly said &#8216;our bad &#8211; stuff-up, but let&#8217;s all calm down and move quickly to plan B&#8217;. By the time the next election rolled around everyone would have forgotten. The best thing would have been to do nothing, and follow the Bagehot principle (lend at penalty rates to good collateral) if need be. Following that they should have gone for something along Jacques lines (although JC identifies the problem here) but how about the government gaurantees up to $x that was in an institution at 12 am the night before the announcement. But that is still very much a second best alternative. As both Mr Rudd and Mr Swan said, and I agree, Australian banks (at least the big 4, plus one) are sound &#8211; so the Bagehot principle would have worked well in our context. </p>
<p>Australia would have been buffeted by an international crisis, but this is now a domestic stuff-up that will undermine domestic confidence. The other problem is that it has taken the $10.4bn spending package off the frontpage. Unlike Nick &#8211; who had an interesting piece in the Fin last week (and republished here) &#8211; I am not as sanguine about that decision. Ken Henry has had a torrid week and I don&#8217;t want to pick on him more than necessary (the government should not turn public servants into political footballs and then complain when they get kicked) but last year he was, rightly, talking about the 3Ps &#8211; population, participation and productivity. They haven&#8217;t gone away just because there is a crisis on. The &#8216;go hard, go early, go household&#8217; slogan is all well and good subject to the 3Ps. </p>
<p>What we now have is a policy whereby the banks have a subsidy from government that they will share between their shareholders and customers (John Hewson had a good op-ed in the Friday Fin on this, but he ignored the customers). So my mortgage rate has come down again, and I&#8217;m happy with that, but it is at the expense of the taxpayer and those who&#8217;ve had their savings frozen (as an individual that suits me &#8211; at last some value for my tax dollar &#8211; but bad policy is always problematic.</p>
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		<title>By: JC</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/10/28/deposit-insurance-dealing-with-the-wholesale-ramifications/#comment-326981</link>
		<dc:creator>JC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 06:37:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=6239#comment-326981</guid>
		<description>I think you may actually stop it moving too, Jacques, which is something you don&#039;t want either. 


The insurance thing was badly thought out. The Fed&#039;s move was the right one if the action was not going cause more trauma. The very action of the government will cause a reduction in lending as the banks capital requirements prevent them from lending to all the disadvantaged players. Amazing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you may actually stop it moving too, Jacques, which is something you don&#8217;t want either. </p>
<p>The insurance thing was badly thought out. The Fed&#8217;s move was the right one if the action was not going cause more trauma. The very action of the government will cause a reduction in lending as the banks capital requirements prevent them from lending to all the disadvantaged players. Amazing.</p>
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		<title>By: Jacques Chester</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/10/28/deposit-insurance-dealing-with-the-wholesale-ramifications/#comment-326977</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques Chester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 06:10:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=6239#comment-326977</guid>
		<description>An even easier fix: all deposits already in banks are covered. New deposits are not. This would immediately and totally halt the flight of capital.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>An even easier fix: all deposits already in banks are covered. New deposits are not. This would immediately and totally halt the flight of capital.</p>
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		<title>By: Thersites</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/10/28/deposit-insurance-dealing-with-the-wholesale-ramifications/#comment-326964</link>
		<dc:creator>Thersites</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 05:19:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=6239#comment-326964</guid>
		<description>Nicholas,

If the threshold is low enough as suggested by the RBA Guv this aint a problem? Splitting is more likely among HNW and corporates. If the threshold was $50k before a fee (what i reckon it should be) are you telling me that someone with $2mill will go to the trouble of splitting this into 40 accounts at different institutions to get the guarantee? Surely not hard to legislate against anyway?

Your own bias in favour of policy that favours your mortgage business backed by other associates is increasingly showing mate?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nicholas,</p>
<p>If the threshold is low enough as suggested by the RBA Guv this aint a problem? Splitting is more likely among HNW and corporates. If the threshold was $50k before a fee (what i reckon it should be) are you telling me that someone with $2mill will go to the trouble of splitting this into 40 accounts at different institutions to get the guarantee? Surely not hard to legislate against anyway?</p>
<p>Your own bias in favour of policy that favours your mortgage business backed by other associates is increasingly showing mate?</p>
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		<title>By: Nicholas Gruen</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/10/28/deposit-insurance-dealing-with-the-wholesale-ramifications/#comment-326953</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicholas Gruen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 04:33:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=6239#comment-326953</guid>
		<description>Fred,

What measures do you take to stop people splitting accounts to avoid guarantee fees?

I&#039;m not sure what is wrong with an opt in guarantee - for which the government requires a fee.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fred,</p>
<p>What measures do you take to stop people splitting accounts to avoid guarantee fees?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure what is wrong with an opt in guarantee &#8211; for which the government requires a fee.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Merkel</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/10/28/deposit-insurance-dealing-with-the-wholesale-ramifications/#comment-326949</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Merkel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 03:27:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=6239#comment-326949</guid>
		<description>Yep, that sounds like what they should have done in the first place.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep, that sounds like what they should have done in the first place.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Frijters</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2008/10/28/deposit-insurance-dealing-with-the-wholesale-ramifications/#comment-326947</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Frijters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Oct 2008 02:57:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=6239#comment-326947</guid>
		<description>Fred,
agreed that the current position looks untenable, but never underestimate the power of wanting to save face. It is hard to keep admitting mistakes if you are trying to &#039;restore confidence&#039;.
In terms of content my suspicion is - but I do not know - that some of the biggest questions about this deposit guarantee have to do with exactly what kind of deposit is guaranteed. For instance, what about foreign currency holdings, are they guaranteed? If so, I can call in any debts from overseas and park them here on an interest-bearing deposit, and wait for the storm to blow over before I re-invest. The disruption of such choices may well be enormous.

I can think of many other disruptions the price fixing is causing. The interest rate differential is still enormous and the exchange rate looks out of sinc. There is thus an incentive to borrow in the US and invest here in &#039;guaranteed&#039; off-set accounts with the prospect of double-dividends (higher interest rates and the likelihood of exchange rate increases). That would be a normal market reaction via which the guarantee and the end of the carry trade would increase the exposure of risk of our economy to banks in the US.

And god help us if the central banks and everyone else decides to sell their US government bonds and/or their dollars. The only logical reaction of the Fed to that would have to be to either default or engineer an inflation bubble to tax away the foreign holdings.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fred,<br />
agreed that the current position looks untenable, but never underestimate the power of wanting to save face. It is hard to keep admitting mistakes if you are trying to &#8216;restore confidence&#8217;.<br />
In terms of content my suspicion is &#8211; but I do not know &#8211; that some of the biggest questions about this deposit guarantee have to do with exactly what kind of deposit is guaranteed. For instance, what about foreign currency holdings, are they guaranteed? If so, I can call in any debts from overseas and park them here on an interest-bearing deposit, and wait for the storm to blow over before I re-invest. The disruption of such choices may well be enormous.</p>
<p>I can think of many other disruptions the price fixing is causing. The interest rate differential is still enormous and the exchange rate looks out of sinc. There is thus an incentive to borrow in the US and invest here in &#8216;guaranteed&#8217; off-set accounts with the prospect of double-dividends (higher interest rates and the likelihood of exchange rate increases). That would be a normal market reaction via which the guarantee and the end of the carry trade would increase the exposure of risk of our economy to banks in the US.</p>
<p>And god help us if the central banks and everyone else decides to sell their US government bonds and/or their dollars. The only logical reaction of the Fed to that would have to be to either default or engineer an inflation bubble to tax away the foreign holdings.</p>
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