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	<title>Comments on: Hoaxes, Dawkins, God, Postmodernism</title>
	<atom:link href="http://clubtroppo.com.au/2009/01/10/hoaxes-dawkins-god-postmodernism/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2009/01/10/hoaxes-dawkins-god-postmodernism/</link>
	<description>Fearlessly dispensing political, legal and economic analysis (and some whimsy) since 2002</description>
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		<title>By: John Greenfield</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2009/01/10/hoaxes-dawkins-god-postmodernism/#comment-342829</link>
		<dc:creator>John Greenfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jan 2009 01:43:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Excellent piece, but John Gray&#039;s &#039;value pluralism&#039; was banging on about this over a decade ago.

On &quot;Verdic Science&quot; we should be alert to the Muhammadan trojan horse of &quot;Islamic Science&quot; into some of our more gullible Dawkins Universities. It is quite the rage at the Wahhabist Madrassas in QLD.


http://www.griffith.edu.au/arts-languages-criminology/griffith-islamic-research-unit

http://www.griffith.edu.au/arts-languages-criminology/griffith-islamic-research-unit/staff/dr-mohamad-abdalla</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent piece, but John Gray&#8217;s &#8216;value pluralism&#8217; was banging on about this over a decade ago.</p>
<p>On &#8220;Verdic Science&#8221; we should be alert to the Muhammadan trojan horse of &#8220;Islamic Science&#8221; into some of our more gullible Dawkins Universities. It is quite the rage at the Wahhabist Madrassas in QLD.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.griffith.edu.au/arts-languages-criminology/griffith-islamic-research-unit">http://www.griffith.edu.au/arts-languages-criminology/griffith-islamic-research-unit</a></p>
<p><a href="http://www.griffith.edu.au/arts-languages-criminology/griffith-islamic-research-unit/staff/dr-mohamad-abdalla">http://www.griffith.edu.au/arts-languages-criminology/griffith-islamic-research-unit/staff/dr-mohamad-abdalla</a></p>
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		<title>By: Mike Pepperday</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2009/01/10/hoaxes-dawkins-god-postmodernism/#comment-342783</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Pepperday</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 21:24:34 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thanks for the link, Mel, I&#039;ll try to find time to read it.  I have always had the attitude that the discovery is not the significant issue, that how we get ideas or theories is mysterious but immaterial as long as we test theories rigorously.  

The problem in social science is that they cannot be tested because of the problem Searle raises: social objects are figments of agreement and the agreement is poor.  Thus social science theories - ordinary ones, let alone the pomo style - just proliferate, supporting the academic careers of their promoters and then fading.  That has been going on for a century now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the link, Mel, I&#8217;ll try to find time to read it.  I have always had the attitude that the discovery is not the significant issue, that how we get ideas or theories is mysterious but immaterial as long as we test theories rigorously.  </p>
<p>The problem in social science is that they cannot be tested because of the problem Searle raises: social objects are figments of agreement and the agreement is poor.  Thus social science theories &#8211; ordinary ones, let alone the pomo style &#8211; just proliferate, supporting the academic careers of their promoters and then fading.  That has been going on for a century now.</p>
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		<title>By: Mike Pepperday</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2009/01/10/hoaxes-dawkins-god-postmodernism/#comment-342782</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Pepperday</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 21:12:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=6952#comment-342782</guid>
		<description>Very interesting and I agree with much but in the end I am not sure I understand what he wants.  

&quot;perhaps we might consider a form of secular pluralism  a pragmatic pluralism that knows the world contains billions of people who believe things for which they have no good evidence, and that honestly comes to terms with the abiding dilemma of how to sustain secular pluralist societies that include people who are neither secular nor pluralist.&quot;  

This is somehow wishy washy.  It isn&#039;t &quot;things for which they have no good evidence&quot; that are the concern.  It&#039;s not moral beliefs that are the problem; it&#039;s religion.  Morals have no evidence but we can generally live with our variations on morals.  Suicide bombers are not atheists or agnostics.  The problem is billions of religious, some of whom are prepared to kill for their delusions.    

So what does he mean?  Everyone should accept that you can believe whatever you like but you must allow others to believe what they like?  That is what we already do.  Dawkins and Harris are not really railing against those who confine it to Sunday morning.  It is those obeying a divine command to disrupt the lives of others who are the problem.  

Someone once said that the middle class will never create a religion.  No doubt a large part of the solution would be a decent standard of living.  Then most would lose their proselytising enthusiasm and in a couple of generations peace would reign.  

The other cause of the problem is not religious or moral (that is just an excuse).  It is too many young men with nothing to do.  That will be solved in a generation or two, also.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very interesting and I agree with much but in the end I am not sure I understand what he wants.  </p>
<p>&#8220;perhaps we might consider a form of secular pluralism  a pragmatic pluralism that knows the world contains billions of people who believe things for which they have no good evidence, and that honestly comes to terms with the abiding dilemma of how to sustain secular pluralist societies that include people who are neither secular nor pluralist.&#8221;  </p>
<p>This is somehow wishy washy.  It isn&#8217;t &#8220;things for which they have no good evidence&#8221; that are the concern.  It&#8217;s not moral beliefs that are the problem; it&#8217;s religion.  Morals have no evidence but we can generally live with our variations on morals.  Suicide bombers are not atheists or agnostics.  The problem is billions of religious, some of whom are prepared to kill for their delusions.    </p>
<p>So what does he mean?  Everyone should accept that you can believe whatever you like but you must allow others to believe what they like?  That is what we already do.  Dawkins and Harris are not really railing against those who confine it to Sunday morning.  It is those obeying a divine command to disrupt the lives of others who are the problem.  </p>
<p>Someone once said that the middle class will never create a religion.  No doubt a large part of the solution would be a decent standard of living.  Then most would lose their proselytising enthusiasm and in a couple of generations peace would reign.  </p>
<p>The other cause of the problem is not religious or moral (that is just an excuse).  It is too many young men with nothing to do.  That will be solved in a generation or two, also.</p>
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		<title>By: melaleuca</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2009/01/10/hoaxes-dawkins-god-postmodernism/#comment-342725</link>
		<dc:creator>melaleuca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 13:28:43 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Mmm. The contexts of justification and discovery concepts are not as sharply defined as Sokal and B</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mmm. The contexts of justification and discovery concepts are not as sharply defined as Sokal and B</p>
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		<title>By: skepticlawyer</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2009/01/10/hoaxes-dawkins-god-postmodernism/#comment-342723</link>
		<dc:creator>skepticlawyer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 12:05:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>This is a very good find, Nick -- thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a very good find, Nick &#8212; thanks.</p>
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