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	<title>Comments on: The Good Evangelical?</title>
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		<title>By: AdrienSword</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2009/01/21/the-good-evangelical/#comment-345903</link>
		<dc:creator>AdrienSword</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Feb 2009 23:06:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=7028#comment-345903</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;If a conservative like Merkel can display such moral courage then we should expect nothing less from a liberal like Obama.&lt;/em&gt;

It&#039;s precisely because he&#039;s a &#039;liberal&#039; that he can&#039;t do that. Remember Germany and the US are different places. Very different culturally. Germany&#039;s not stuffed to the brim with religious nutbags. And it&#039;s the Right&#039;s call to deal with &#039;em.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>If a conservative like Merkel can display such moral courage then we should expect nothing less from a liberal like Obama.</em></p>
<p>It&#8217;s precisely because he&#8217;s a &#8216;liberal&#8217; that he can&#8217;t do that. Remember Germany and the US are different places. Very different culturally. Germany&#8217;s not stuffed to the brim with religious nutbags. And it&#8217;s the Right&#8217;s call to deal with &#8216;em.</p>
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		<title>By: melaleuca</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2009/01/21/the-good-evangelical/#comment-345748</link>
		<dc:creator>melaleuca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 03:09:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=7028#comment-345748</guid>
		<description>I would prefer Obama to take a decisive and ethical position with regards to crazed god-botherers, as per German Chancellor Angela Merkel, who recently denounced Pope Benedict XVI&#039;s decision to reinstate a neonazi Bishop to the Catholic Church:

&quot;Dr Merkel has broken with political tradition and demanded that the German pontiff make &quot;a very clear statement&quot; to reject the observations of Bishop Richard Williamson, who told a Swedish TV program he did not believe gas chambers existed in World War II or that six million Jews were murdered in Nazi concentration camps.

In an unprecedented attack on the leader of the Catholic Church, she rejected the pontiff&#039;s statement last week apologising for Bishop Williamson&#039;s comments, saying she did not believe that the clarification was sufficient.

...

Her comments reflect a growing revolt within the Catholic Church  and more particularly within the German hierarchy  as religious leaders increasingly express their horror at the Pope&#039;s decision to rescind the excommunication of four ultra-conservative bishops to mend a 20-year schism between religious factions.&quot;

http://www.theage.com.au/world/merkel-attacks-popes-support-of-outcast-bishop-20090204-7xvx.html?page=1

If a conservative like Merkel can display such moral courage then we should expect nothing less from a &quot;liberal&quot; like Obama.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would prefer Obama to take a decisive and ethical position with regards to crazed god-botherers, as per German Chancellor Angela Merkel, who recently denounced Pope Benedict XVI&#8217;s decision to reinstate a neonazi Bishop to the Catholic Church:</p>
<p>&#8220;Dr Merkel has broken with political tradition and demanded that the German pontiff make &#8220;a very clear statement&#8221; to reject the observations of Bishop Richard Williamson, who told a Swedish TV program he did not believe gas chambers existed in World War II or that six million Jews were murdered in Nazi concentration camps.</p>
<p>In an unprecedented attack on the leader of the Catholic Church, she rejected the pontiff&#8217;s statement last week apologising for Bishop Williamson&#8217;s comments, saying she did not believe that the clarification was sufficient.</p>
<p>&#8230;</p>
<p>Her comments reflect a growing revolt within the Catholic Church  and more particularly within the German hierarchy  as religious leaders increasingly express their horror at the Pope&#8217;s decision to rescind the excommunication of four ultra-conservative bishops to mend a 20-year schism between religious factions.&#8221;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.theage.com.au/world/merkel-attacks-popes-support-of-outcast-bishop-20090204-7xvx.html?page=1">http://www.theage.com.au/world/merkel-attacks-popes-support-of-outcast-bishop-20090204-7xvx.html?page=1</a></p>
<p>If a conservative like Merkel can display such moral courage then we should expect nothing less from a &#8220;liberal&#8221; like Obama.</p>
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		<title>By: legalsoapbox</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2009/01/21/the-good-evangelical/#comment-344046</link>
		<dc:creator>legalsoapbox</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Jan 2009 06:22:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=7028#comment-344046</guid>
		<description>My co-blogger has a theory about this in her post here - she thinks Obama is practising &lt;a href=&quot;http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2009/01/reasonable-disagreement/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;reasonable disagreement&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My co-blogger has a theory about this in her post here &#8211; she thinks Obama is practising <a href="http://skepticlawyer.com.au/2009/01/reasonable-disagreement/">reasonable disagreement</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: melaleuca</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2009/01/21/the-good-evangelical/#comment-343942</link>
		<dc:creator>melaleuca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 12:17:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=7028#comment-343942</guid>
		<description>Saint says:

&quot;Seriously Obama should either be Benny Hinn or an Episcopalian. And anyone who believes his schtick is about as blind, arrogant and self-centred as they are.&quot;

I&#039;m not suggesting Saint has a deranged obsession with the new American president but only a week ago he was having fantasies about Obama with boobs: 

&quot;Warning: Barack has man boob problem ... Error: Barak has no man boobs.&quot;  http://dogfightatbankstown.typepad.com/blog/2009/01/vista.html

But seriously, poverty is a serious issue in the United States and Obama should do whatever it takes to ameliorate it, even if that means teaming up with oddball Jesus freaks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Saint says:</p>
<p>&#8220;Seriously Obama should either be Benny Hinn or an Episcopalian. And anyone who believes his schtick is about as blind, arrogant and self-centred as they are.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not suggesting Saint has a deranged obsession with the new American president but only a week ago he was having fantasies about Obama with boobs: </p>
<p>&#8220;Warning: Barack has man boob problem &#8230; Error: Barak has no man boobs.&#8221;  <a href="http://dogfightatbankstown.typepad.com/blog/2009/01/vista.html">http://dogfightatbankstown.typepad.com/blog/2009/01/vista.html</a></p>
<p>But seriously, poverty is a serious issue in the United States and Obama should do whatever it takes to ameliorate it, even if that means teaming up with oddball Jesus freaks.</p>
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		<title>By: AdrienSword</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2009/01/21/the-good-evangelical/#comment-343939</link>
		<dc:creator>AdrienSword</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 08:38:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=7028#comment-343939</guid>
		<description>I think Obama&#039;s attempting a paradigm change. He&#039;s willing to acknowledge that conservatives have strengths in certain areas and let them work there. Gay marriage is currently too controversial to obtain approval. It&#039;s a fight that can&#039;t be won and it&#039;s a minor issue (altho&#039; imho a significant one).
.
Obama&#039;s not interested in any PC shitfight. He wants drop the partisan squiabbling over matters that boil down to personal views &lt;em&gt;that cannot be changed&lt;/em&gt; and concentrate on the very difficult tasks he&#039;s set himself. In the process he will, if successful, disarm the hysterically religious Right like &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.rightwingnews.com/interviews/anncoulter.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this dingbat&lt;/a&gt; &lt;em&gt;pour example&lt;/em&gt;. He&#039;ll also marginalize the ridiculously PC left. 
.
I think that&#039;s smart. And I think in a generation gay marriage will be relatively uncontroversial.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Obama&#8217;s attempting a paradigm change. He&#8217;s willing to acknowledge that conservatives have strengths in certain areas and let them work there. Gay marriage is currently too controversial to obtain approval. It&#8217;s a fight that can&#8217;t be won and it&#8217;s a minor issue (altho&#8217; imho a significant one).<br />
.<br />
Obama&#8217;s not interested in any PC shitfight. He wants drop the partisan squiabbling over matters that boil down to personal views <em>that cannot be changed</em> and concentrate on the very difficult tasks he&#8217;s set himself. In the process he will, if successful, disarm the hysterically religious Right like <a href="http://www.rightwingnews.com/interviews/anncoulter.php">this dingbat</a> <em>pour example</em>. He&#8217;ll also marginalize the ridiculously PC left.<br />
.<br />
I think that&#8217;s smart. And I think in a generation gay marriage will be relatively uncontroversial.</p>
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		<title>By: AdrienSword</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2009/01/21/the-good-evangelical/#comment-343938</link>
		<dc:creator>AdrienSword</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 08:23:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=7028#comment-343938</guid>
		<description>Well Saint I guess you&#039;re gonna remain at (Culture) War like &#039;em Jap&#039;nese fellas kept fightin&#039; right inta the hippie days. That&#039;s the spirit!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well Saint I guess you&#8217;re gonna remain at (Culture) War like &#8216;em Jap&#8217;nese fellas kept fightin&#8217; right inta the hippie days. That&#8217;s the spirit!</p>
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		<title>By: saint</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2009/01/21/the-good-evangelical/#comment-343937</link>
		<dc:creator>saint</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 07:00:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=7028#comment-343937</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Obama wants to call a truce in the culture war.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Sure sure. First up, &lt;a href=&quot;http://hotair.com/archives/2009/01/21/video-new-catholic-vote-ad-welcomes-the-era-of-hopenchange/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;kill the kids&lt;/a&gt; and set the &lt;a href=&quot;http://yidwithlid.blogspot.com/2009/01/obama-takes-first-step-towards-making.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;child killers free&lt;/a&gt;.  Wonder why they are screaming &quot;&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.sba-list.org/site/apps/nlnet/content.aspx?c=ddJBKJNsFqG&amp;b=4186739&amp;content_id={CF6A5BE8-1F98-4C87-B4E1-BBE685C88C4F}&amp;notoc=1&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Bailout&lt;/a&gt;&quot;! Maybe someone should have told &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1123543/Romanian-immigrant-raped-girl-English-lessons-prison-brother.html?ITO=1490&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this fullsome idiot&lt;/a&gt; that if he killed an American he wouldn&#039;t just get English lessons but also a green card. 

Not to worry, Obama will tell you &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,24946747-952,00.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;how much money you can earn&lt;/a&gt; but hey, don&#039;t ask about &lt;a href=&quot;http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2009/01/charting-michelle-os-salary.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; pay rises you don&#039;t deserve&lt;/a&gt;.

Don&#039;t worry you can still all go &lt;a href=&quot;http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=PMrJE7J3fWU&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;green&lt;/a&gt; like &lt;a href=&quot;http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/timblair/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/the_one_true_chrysler/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;him&lt;/a&gt;.  Oh &lt;a href=&quot;http://minx.cc/?post=281531&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;yes you can&lt;/a&gt;.

Seriously Obama should either be Benny Hinn or an Episcopalian.  And anyone who believes his schtick is about as blind, arrogant and self-centred as they are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Obama wants to call a truce in the culture war.</p></blockquote>
<p>Sure sure. First up, <a href="http://hotair.com/archives/2009/01/21/video-new-catholic-vote-ad-welcomes-the-era-of-hopenchange/">kill the kids</a> and set the <a href="http://yidwithlid.blogspot.com/2009/01/obama-takes-first-step-towards-making.html">child killers free</a>.  Wonder why they are screaming &#8220;<a href="http://www.sba-list.org/site/apps/nlnet/content.aspx?c=ddJBKJNsFqG&amp;b=4186739&amp;content_id={CF6A5BE8-1F98-4C87-B4E1-BBE685C88C4F}&amp;notoc=1">Bailout</a>&#8220;! Maybe someone should have told <a href="http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1123543/Romanian-immigrant-raped-girl-English-lessons-prison-brother.html?ITO=1490">this fullsome idiot</a> that if he killed an American he wouldn&#8217;t just get English lessons but also a green card. </p>
<p>Not to worry, Obama will tell you <a href="http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story/0,23739,24946747-952,00.html">how much money you can earn</a> but hey, don&#8217;t ask about <a href="http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2009/01/charting-michelle-os-salary.html"> pay rises you don&#8217;t deserve</a>.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t worry you can still all go <a href="http://au.youtube.com/watch?v=PMrJE7J3fWU">green</a> like <a href="http://blogs.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/timblair/index.php/dailytelegraph/comments/the_one_true_chrysler/">him</a>.  Oh <a href="http://minx.cc/?post=281531">yes you can</a>.</p>
<p>Seriously Obama should either be Benny Hinn or an Episcopalian.  And anyone who believes his schtick is about as blind, arrogant and self-centred as they are.</p>
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		<title>By: Don Arthur</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2009/01/21/the-good-evangelical/#comment-343921</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Arthur</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 22:37:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=7028#comment-343921</guid>
		<description>Rafe - One way to have a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.smh.com.au/cgi-bin/common/popupPrintArticle.pl?path=/articles/2004/04/02/1080544694857.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;useful discussion&lt;/a&gt; about things like taper rates would be to create an online simulator that lay people could play with.

People could plug in the taper rate or the benefit increase they&#039;re proposing and then the simulator would tell them how much it would cost and what effect it would have on labour force participation etc.

Where the model relies on contested assumptions (eg work incentive effects) the simulator could allow you to adjust these.

What usually happens in debates over taper rates, EMTRs and other changes to payments and taxes is that people make proposals without having any idea of the costs and consequences.

Without numbers and models, debates over EMTRs are pointless. It&#039;s true that an easy to use simulator would grossly oversimplify things, but it would give people a better sense of the trade offs.

Here&#039;s an example of a simulator which helps people think about the US budget: http://marketplace.publicradio.org/features/budget_hero/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rafe &#8211; One way to have a <a href="http://www.smh.com.au/cgi-bin/common/popupPrintArticle.pl?path=/articles/2004/04/02/1080544694857.html">useful discussion</a> about things like taper rates would be to create an online simulator that lay people could play with.</p>
<p>People could plug in the taper rate or the benefit increase they&#8217;re proposing and then the simulator would tell them how much it would cost and what effect it would have on labour force participation etc.</p>
<p>Where the model relies on contested assumptions (eg work incentive effects) the simulator could allow you to adjust these.</p>
<p>What usually happens in debates over taper rates, EMTRs and other changes to payments and taxes is that people make proposals without having any idea of the costs and consequences.</p>
<p>Without numbers and models, debates over EMTRs are pointless. It&#8217;s true that an easy to use simulator would grossly oversimplify things, but it would give people a better sense of the trade offs.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s an example of a simulator which helps people think about the US budget: <a href="http://marketplace.publicradio.org/features/budget_hero/">http://marketplace.publicradio.org/features/budget_hero/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Rafe Champion</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2009/01/21/the-good-evangelical/#comment-343919</link>
		<dc:creator>Rafe Champion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 22:00:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=7028#comment-343919</guid>
		<description>We have been over some of this before, with the idea to join forces on issues where there is common ground - like the desire to eliminate poverty and not start off shouting at each other on issues where we have differencs that cannot be reconciled in the short term.

The local issue that we discussed a couple of years ago was the problem of moving off welfare into work, and getting hit with a huge marginal tax rate due to the loss of benefits. The aim would be to adjust (taper) the loss of benefits to make the move into work more worthwhile. Has anything happened on this front?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We have been over some of this before, with the idea to join forces on issues where there is common ground &#8211; like the desire to eliminate poverty and not start off shouting at each other on issues where we have differencs that cannot be reconciled in the short term.</p>
<p>The local issue that we discussed a couple of years ago was the problem of moving off welfare into work, and getting hit with a huge marginal tax rate due to the loss of benefits. The aim would be to adjust (taper) the loss of benefits to make the move into work more worthwhile. Has anything happened on this front?</p>
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		<title>By: OBAMA&#8217;S INAUGURATION &#171; DUCKPOND</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2009/01/21/the-good-evangelical/#comment-343877</link>
		<dc:creator>OBAMA&#8217;S INAUGURATION &#171; DUCKPOND</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 13:59:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.com.au/?p=7028#comment-343877</guid>
		<description>[...] Don Arthur at Club Troppo observes, reminding me that the marathon is due to start over in two years, and beyond that six years for the post Obama crown: Obama wants to call a truce in the culture war. He wants to defuse social and cultural issues which have drawn many less affluent Americans away from liberal candidates. And if he succeeds it raises an interesting question  will conservatives try to lure these voters back by abandoning small government rhetoric and promising to use government programs for conservative ends? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Don Arthur at Club Troppo observes, reminding me that the marathon is due to start over in two years, and beyond that six years for the post Obama crown: Obama wants to call a truce in the culture war. He wants to defuse social and cultural issues which have drawn many less affluent Americans away from liberal candidates. And if he succeeds it raises an interesting question  will conservatives try to lure these voters back by abandoning small government rhetoric and promising to use government programs for conservative ends? [...]</p>
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