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	<title>Comments for Club Troppo</title>
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		<title>Comment on The Greek default death spiral by Peter Whiteford</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2012/02/07/the-greek-default-death-spiral/#comment-464848</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Whiteford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2012 11:01:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.ozblogistan.com.au/?p=18661#comment-464848</guid>
		<description>As I read this - http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite2_12464_10/02/2012_427207 - the primary budget defict in Greece is now about 2.4% of GDP or about 5 billion euros.  When you default you no longer pay interest payments currently 15 billion euros - so your fiscal position improves enormously.  But you have to come up with 5 billion euros in tax increases or spending cuts to close your primary deficit. Given that the current sticking point is about 325 million euros - http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/feb/10/greece-crisis-bailout-euro-default - I think Greece is better off not defaulting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As I read this &#8211; <a href="http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite2_12464_10/02/2012_427207">http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_wsite2_12464_10/02/2012_427207</a> &#8211; the primary budget defict in Greece is now about 2.4% of GDP or about 5 billion euros.  When you default you no longer pay interest payments currently 15 billion euros &#8211; so your fiscal position improves enormously.  But you have to come up with 5 billion euros in tax increases or spending cuts to close your primary deficit. Given that the current sticking point is about 325 million euros &#8211; <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/feb/10/greece-crisis-bailout-euro-default">http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/feb/10/greece-crisis-bailout-euro-default</a> &#8211; I think Greece is better off not defaulting.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Greek default death spiral by Peter Whiteford</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2012/02/07/the-greek-default-death-spiral/#comment-464842</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Whiteford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2012 10:33:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.ozblogistan.com.au/?p=18661#comment-464842</guid>
		<description>My feeling that this is not going to end well for Greece is growing stronger.  As I see it the first problem is that you can&#039;t leave the euro overnight - it normally takes a couple of years to establish a currency, and exiting a currency takes about the same length of time.

If you are running a primary budget deficit (excluding interest payments), then as far as I see it default brings on the problems that you have been dealing with through the austerity package.  If no one is willing to lend you money then your tax revenue  and your spending have to coincide within a couple of months at least i.e. instant austerity.

Of course if you have your own currency then you can print money (to pay public servants and pensioners), but if it takes a couple of years to establish a separate currency, then you have a period of all the costs and none of the benefits of default.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My feeling that this is not going to end well for Greece is growing stronger.  As I see it the first problem is that you can&#8217;t leave the euro overnight &#8211; it normally takes a couple of years to establish a currency, and exiting a currency takes about the same length of time.</p>
<p>If you are running a primary budget deficit (excluding interest payments), then as far as I see it default brings on the problems that you have been dealing with through the austerity package.  If no one is willing to lend you money then your tax revenue  and your spending have to coincide within a couple of months at least i.e. instant austerity.</p>
<p>Of course if you have your own currency then you can print money (to pay public servants and pensioners), but if it takes a couple of years to establish a separate currency, then you have a period of all the costs and none of the benefits of default.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Missing Link Friday &#8211; Conservatism, prejudice and intelligence by Ian Milliss</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2012/02/10/missing-link-friday-conservatism-prejudice-and-intelligence/#comment-464834</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Milliss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2012 08:30:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.ozblogistan.com.au/?p=18686#comment-464834</guid>
		<description>I think you missed my point Tel. I don&#039;t see what race has to do with it, the point I was making was that regardless of race, the politics of prisoners rarely fit an empathic leftish stereotype, rather the vast majority tend to be right wing and not very intelligent. I find it rather offensive that you should suggest that if they are right wing and not very intelligent then it is because of their race.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you missed my point Tel. I don&#8217;t see what race has to do with it, the point I was making was that regardless of race, the politics of prisoners rarely fit an empathic leftish stereotype, rather the vast majority tend to be right wing and not very intelligent. I find it rather offensive that you should suggest that if they are right wing and not very intelligent then it is because of their race.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Missing Link Friday &#8211; Conservatism, prejudice and intelligence by Tel</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2012/02/10/missing-link-friday-conservatism-prejudice-and-intelligence/#comment-464800</link>
		<dc:creator>Tel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2012 02:49:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.ozblogistan.com.au/?p=18686#comment-464800</guid>
		<description>With regard to statistics and massive sample sizes -- a small effect can *ONLY* be measured with a large sample size. So if you believe that small things are still real things, then you need to accept the statistics of large samples.

Having said that, the same large sample will also amplify tiny defects in your experimental design. To measure small things you need equipment built to a better tolerance than what you are measuring. Frankly I don&#039;t believe there is any intelligence test that can deliver such precise results... especially not on a one-dimensional axis when intelligence comes in many flavours.

I remember that infamous bell curve graph where various racial groups were compared using an intelligence test (you know, the one where the Asians were supposedly the smartest). Didn&#039;t that get widely condemned? Does it mean the test is biased toward some particular result, or some other factor in influencing the outcome? There&#039;s no way to tell. I strongly suspect there never will be a way to tell. As racial groups become more mixed by interbreeding it will only get more difficult to discover an answer, and perhaps pointless to try. Half-breeds tend to show better vigour than both their parents.

Ian Milliss wants to talk about prison statistics, well go to the land of incarceration, and checkout the stats for racial groups in prison vs racial groups in outside society. Does this prove genetic programming for violence? Or does it show blatant prejudice in the justice system? Could be either, could be both, you would need a controlled experiment to be able to figure that out.

I have one suggestion for an experiment (another of my randomized trials that would work but no one has the guts to discover the answer). Every defendant facing trial is given the option of volunteering to become an experiment subject. If they say &quot;yes&quot; then a random number is generated and their skin tone is adjusted by stage make-up to be randomly slightly darker or lighter than their real skin tone (not by a large amount, and done by professional artists so it looks real), or in some cases no adjustment is made. Then over time you correlate the random adjustment against trial outcome... for a large sample size if the make-up has no effect you would see a flat distribution when you plot the guilty/innocent percentages against the colour adjustment.

Obviously this adjustment needs to be kept secret from the court and the jury until after the trial, which should not be too difficult if you are careful not to go overboard with the adjustment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With regard to statistics and massive sample sizes &#8212; a small effect can *ONLY* be measured with a large sample size. So if you believe that small things are still real things, then you need to accept the statistics of large samples.</p>
<p>Having said that, the same large sample will also amplify tiny defects in your experimental design. To measure small things you need equipment built to a better tolerance than what you are measuring. Frankly I don&#8217;t believe there is any intelligence test that can deliver such precise results&#8230; especially not on a one-dimensional axis when intelligence comes in many flavours.</p>
<p>I remember that infamous bell curve graph where various racial groups were compared using an intelligence test (you know, the one where the Asians were supposedly the smartest). Didn&#8217;t that get widely condemned? Does it mean the test is biased toward some particular result, or some other factor in influencing the outcome? There&#8217;s no way to tell. I strongly suspect there never will be a way to tell. As racial groups become more mixed by interbreeding it will only get more difficult to discover an answer, and perhaps pointless to try. Half-breeds tend to show better vigour than both their parents.</p>
<p>Ian Milliss wants to talk about prison statistics, well go to the land of incarceration, and checkout the stats for racial groups in prison vs racial groups in outside society. Does this prove genetic programming for violence? Or does it show blatant prejudice in the justice system? Could be either, could be both, you would need a controlled experiment to be able to figure that out.</p>
<p>I have one suggestion for an experiment (another of my randomized trials that would work but no one has the guts to discover the answer). Every defendant facing trial is given the option of volunteering to become an experiment subject. If they say &#8220;yes&#8221; then a random number is generated and their skin tone is adjusted by stage make-up to be randomly slightly darker or lighter than their real skin tone (not by a large amount, and done by professional artists so it looks real), or in some cases no adjustment is made. Then over time you correlate the random adjustment against trial outcome&#8230; for a large sample size if the make-up has no effect you would see a flat distribution when you plot the guilty/innocent percentages against the colour adjustment.</p>
<p>Obviously this adjustment needs to be kept secret from the court and the jury until after the trial, which should not be too difficult if you are careful not to go overboard with the adjustment.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Missing Link Friday &#8211; Conservatism, prejudice and intelligence by Dan</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2012/02/10/missing-link-friday-conservatism-prejudice-and-intelligence/#comment-464786</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2012 01:15:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.ozblogistan.com.au/?p=18686#comment-464786</guid>
		<description>@Mozzie - yeah I hear that. A buddy of mine pursuing a PhD in neuroscience sent me a paper demonstrating facial expression recognition in dead fish, the implicit point of which was to show how if you conduct enough statistical testing you&#039;ll generate a result (it used the same statistical methodology as a lot of supposedly serious neuroscience papers).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Mozzie &#8211; yeah I hear that. A buddy of mine pursuing a PhD in neuroscience sent me a paper demonstrating facial expression recognition in dead fish, the implicit point of which was to show how if you conduct enough statistical testing you&#8217;ll generate a result (it used the same statistical methodology as a lot of supposedly serious neuroscience papers).</p>
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		<title>Comment on Missing Link Friday &#8211; Conservatism, prejudice and intelligence by mozzie</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2012/02/10/missing-link-friday-conservatism-prejudice-and-intelligence/#comment-464783</link>
		<dc:creator>mozzie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2012 00:55:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.ozblogistan.com.au/?p=18686#comment-464783</guid>
		<description>Best line:
&quot; ... their results statistically “significant” only because of the massive sample size.&quot; William M Briggs</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Best line:<br />
&#8221; &#8230; their results statistically “significant” only because of the massive sample size.&#8221; William M Briggs</p>
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		<title>Comment on Missing Link Friday &#8211; Conservatism, prejudice and intelligence by Steve at the pub</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2012/02/10/missing-link-friday-conservatism-prejudice-and-intelligence/#comment-464782</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve at the pub</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Feb 2012 00:48:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.ozblogistan.com.au/?p=18686#comment-464782</guid>
		<description>My radar tells me that the comments from #4 onward (inclusive), while appearing to be spoofs, actually aren&#039;t.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My radar tells me that the comments from #4 onward (inclusive), while appearing to be spoofs, actually aren&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Missing Link Friday &#8211; Conservatism, prejudice and intelligence by Laura</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2012/02/10/missing-link-friday-conservatism-prejudice-and-intelligence/#comment-464731</link>
		<dc:creator>Laura</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 18:44:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.ozblogistan.com.au/?p=18686#comment-464731</guid>
		<description>Just look at the low IQ level of the average poster at sites like Catallaxy and you see clearly the relationship between stupidity and bigotry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just look at the low IQ level of the average poster at sites like Catallaxy and you see clearly the relationship between stupidity and bigotry.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Welcome the global mail &#8211; with a quick snark on second hand car imports by Bill Posters</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2012/02/08/welcome-the-global-mail-with-a-quick-snark-on-second-hand-car-imports/#comment-464707</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill Posters</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 12:10:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.ozblogistan.com.au/?p=18677#comment-464707</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;    1. How may of The Global Mail’s Australian articles couldn’t have been written by a Club Troppo blogger sitting at their desk?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Patrick says none. Does that figure of zero include Ellen Fanning&#039;s fairly epic two-parter on power prices? The site definitely lacks ball-tearers, but to try to claim that it could all be replaced with blogs is just silly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>    1. How may of The Global Mail’s Australian articles couldn’t have been written by a Club Troppo blogger sitting at their desk?</p></blockquote>
<p>Patrick says none. Does that figure of zero include Ellen Fanning&#8217;s fairly epic two-parter on power prices? The site definitely lacks ball-tearers, but to try to claim that it could all be replaced with blogs is just silly.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Greek default death spiral by Tel</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2012/02/07/the-greek-default-death-spiral/#comment-464704</link>
		<dc:creator>Tel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 11:50:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.ozblogistan.com.au/?p=18661#comment-464704</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;&quot;... when the stupidity is completely exhausted...&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

I refer that matter to Einstein.

However, the long run solution to their problem is their problem, and it cannot be anyone else&#039;s to decide.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>&#8220;&#8230; when the stupidity is completely exhausted&#8230;&#8221;</i></p>
<p>I refer that matter to Einstein.</p>
<p>However, the long run solution to their problem is their problem, and it cannot be anyone else&#8217;s to decide.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Climate, demographics and economics: the next twenty years by Nicholas Gruen</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2012/02/06/climate-demographics-and-economics-the-next-twenty-years/#comment-464696</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicholas Gruen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 10:03:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.ozblogistan.com.au/?p=18636#comment-464696</guid>
		<description>Hi JJ @37.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://pc.gov.au/ic/inquiry/49packag&quot;&gt;This report&lt;/a&gt; documents one study which looked at the external environmental costs not incorporated into packaging.  

Table 5.2: Estimated price effect
of a container tax, 1989
prices (1993–94 prices)
container type tax in cents
2 litre HDPE bottle 0.15 (0.16)
375 ml aluminium can 0.02 (0.02)
600 ml refillable glass 0.11 (0.12)
1 litre one way glass 0.96 (1.03)
1 litre carton 0.11 (0.12)
2 litre PET bottle 0.26 (0.28)
Source: Hatch and Mules (1993)

Here&#039;s the net resource depletion figures from Lateral Economics&#039; &lt;a href=&quot;http://images.smh.com.au/file/2011/12/09/2827886/Fairfax%2520Lateral%2520Economics%2520Index%2520of%2520Australia%27s%2520Wellbeing%2520Final%2520Report.pdf&quot;&gt;HALE Index&lt;/a&gt; (pdf)

Table 8: Calculating the value of net resource depletion
$ billion (real/volume terms)  00-
01 
05-06  06-07  07-08  08-09  09-10 
Land degradation  -0.4  -0.4  -0.4  -0.4  -0.4  -0.4 
plus Subsoil asset discoveries   2.2  4.8  6.1  n/a  n/a  n/a 
less Subsoil asset depletions 
20
-2.5  -4.3  -4.2  n/a  n/a  n/a 
less Cost of mineral exploration 0.5  1.4  1.9  2.4  2.2  2.2 
plus Consumption of Fixed 
Capital (COFC) on mineral 
exploration 
-2.2  -2.3  -2.4  -2.5  -2.7  -2.8 
equals Net resource depletion 
adjustment 
-2.3  -0.7  1.1  -0.3  -0.6  -1.05  

Greenhouse is the only really serious issue, and in our index this is what we ended up concluding - at p. 30 of the same report linked to above.

&lt;blockquote&gt;7
 Australia’s annual GDP for 2009-10 was $1,283 billion. Using our methodology, the net 
present value of future climate change in 2009-10 would range from $731 billion under the 
moderate warming (2-degree scenario) to $1,103 billion for unmitigated climate change. These 
figures look extremely large, compared with annual GDP or GNP, but that is because we are 
comparing a stock with a flow. The values we are looking at here are capital values or values of 
the extent to which climate change might degrade our natural environment considered as an 
asset. Such damage being done over the nearly 90 years to the end of the century would 
equate to much smaller shares of annual GDP. For example, even in the unmitigated climate 
change scenario, the negative effects of climate change would reduce annual GNP in 2025 by 
1.0 per cent, increasing over time to reduce annual GNP in 2100 by 7.4 per cent compared to a 
no climate change scenario.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Of course several things can be added.  

1) species extinction and so on are incommensurate with income and so one can argue that it&#039;s not all reducible to numbers. 

2) if the damage is bad enough the damage could generate political instability including between countries - for instance if some lose out badly. And us humangoes have a habit of turning small costs into large ones once we start disagreeing. 

But at least from an economic point of view, it&#039;s as I said above, not the drama it&#039;s made out to be.  

with greenhouse if it is bad enough econmi</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi JJ @37.</p>
<p><a href="http://pc.gov.au/ic/inquiry/49packag">This report</a> documents one study which looked at the external environmental costs not incorporated into packaging.  </p>
<p>Table 5.2: Estimated price effect<br />
of a container tax, 1989<br />
prices (1993–94 prices)<br />
container type tax in cents<br />
2 litre HDPE bottle 0.15 (0.16)<br />
375 ml aluminium can 0.02 (0.02)<br />
600 ml refillable glass 0.11 (0.12)<br />
1 litre one way glass 0.96 (1.03)<br />
1 litre carton 0.11 (0.12)<br />
2 litre PET bottle 0.26 (0.28)<br />
Source: Hatch and Mules (1993)</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s the net resource depletion figures from Lateral Economics&#8217; <a href="http://images.smh.com.au/file/2011/12/09/2827886/Fairfax%2520Lateral%2520Economics%2520Index%2520of%2520Australia%27s%2520Wellbeing%2520Final%2520Report.pdf">HALE Index</a> (pdf)</p>
<p>Table 8: Calculating the value of net resource depletion<br />
$ billion (real/volume terms)  00-<br />
01<br />
05-06  06-07  07-08  08-09  09-10<br />
Land degradation  -0.4  -0.4  -0.4  -0.4  -0.4  -0.4<br />
plus Subsoil asset discoveries   2.2  4.8  6.1  n/a  n/a  n/a<br />
less Subsoil asset depletions<br />
20<br />
-2.5  -4.3  -4.2  n/a  n/a  n/a<br />
less Cost of mineral exploration 0.5  1.4  1.9  2.4  2.2  2.2<br />
plus Consumption of Fixed<br />
Capital (COFC) on mineral<br />
exploration<br />
-2.2  -2.3  -2.4  -2.5  -2.7  -2.8<br />
equals Net resource depletion<br />
adjustment<br />
-2.3  -0.7  1.1  -0.3  -0.6  -1.05  </p>
<p>Greenhouse is the only really serious issue, and in our index this is what we ended up concluding &#8211; at p. 30 of the same report linked to above.</p>
<blockquote><p>7<br />
 Australia’s annual GDP for 2009-10 was $1,283 billion. Using our methodology, the net<br />
present value of future climate change in 2009-10 would range from $731 billion under the<br />
moderate warming (2-degree scenario) to $1,103 billion for unmitigated climate change. These<br />
figures look extremely large, compared with annual GDP or GNP, but that is because we are<br />
comparing a stock with a flow. The values we are looking at here are capital values or values of<br />
the extent to which climate change might degrade our natural environment considered as an<br />
asset. Such damage being done over the nearly 90 years to the end of the century would<br />
equate to much smaller shares of annual GDP. For example, even in the unmitigated climate<br />
change scenario, the negative effects of climate change would reduce annual GNP in 2025 by<br />
1.0 per cent, increasing over time to reduce annual GNP in 2100 by 7.4 per cent compared to a<br />
no climate change scenario.</p></blockquote>
<p>Of course several things can be added.  </p>
<p>1) species extinction and so on are incommensurate with income and so one can argue that it&#8217;s not all reducible to numbers. </p>
<p>2) if the damage is bad enough the damage could generate political instability including between countries &#8211; for instance if some lose out badly. And us humangoes have a habit of turning small costs into large ones once we start disagreeing. </p>
<p>But at least from an economic point of view, it&#8217;s as I said above, not the drama it&#8217;s made out to be.  </p>
<p>with greenhouse if it is bad enough econmi</p>
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		<title>Comment on Welcome the global mail &#8211; with a quick snark on second hand car imports by KS</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2012/02/08/welcome-the-global-mail-with-a-quick-snark-on-second-hand-car-imports/#comment-464692</link>
		<dc:creator>KS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 08:37:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.ozblogistan.com.au/?p=18677#comment-464692</guid>
		<description>Entirely irrelevant bleg but was looking for a contact for Ken Parish but can&#039;t find one. Have been involved with a current parliamentary inquiry into strata title insurance in FNQ where premiums have escalated by several hundred percent.

In submissions references have been made to the role of the TIO, a Gov&#039;t insurance office in the NT, as the only surviving such body. The TIO website clearly states that they are &quot;guaranteed&quot; by the NT Gov&#039;t. However, they even put it in the qualifying quotation marks which I would think at least inapproriate by any standard.

The committee chairman (Perret) has stated that Wayne Swan would be surprised by insurance industry claim that there may be a C&#039;wealth guarantee on the TIO. But if the NT are claiming a (free?) guarantee and given its status as a territory not a state. Is there indeed such a C&#039;wealth guarantee on private catastrophy risk in the NT??</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Entirely irrelevant bleg but was looking for a contact for Ken Parish but can&#8217;t find one. Have been involved with a current parliamentary inquiry into strata title insurance in FNQ where premiums have escalated by several hundred percent.</p>
<p>In submissions references have been made to the role of the TIO, a Gov&#8217;t insurance office in the NT, as the only surviving such body. The TIO website clearly states that they are &#8220;guaranteed&#8221; by the NT Gov&#8217;t. However, they even put it in the qualifying quotation marks which I would think at least inapproriate by any standard.</p>
<p>The committee chairman (Perret) has stated that Wayne Swan would be surprised by insurance industry claim that there may be a C&#8217;wealth guarantee on the TIO. But if the NT are claiming a (free?) guarantee and given its status as a territory not a state. Is there indeed such a C&#8217;wealth guarantee on private catastrophy risk in the NT??</p>
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		<title>Comment on Missing Link Friday &#8211; Conservatism, prejudice and intelligence by Ian Milliss</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2012/02/10/missing-link-friday-conservatism-prejudice-and-intelligence/#comment-464668</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Milliss</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 06:06:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.ozblogistan.com.au/?p=18686#comment-464668</guid>
		<description>One of the real clinchers is the fact that you don&#039;t hear of too many touchy feely left wingers in jail.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the real clinchers is the fact that you don&#8217;t hear of too many touchy feely left wingers in jail.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Missing Link Friday &#8211; Conservatism, prejudice and intelligence by Dan</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2012/02/10/missing-link-friday-conservatism-prejudice-and-intelligence/#comment-464665</link>
		<dc:creator>Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 05:45:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.ozblogistan.com.au/?p=18686#comment-464665</guid>
		<description>Is there a bit of conflating assumptions and conclusions here? Quite a few of the right-wingers I know are racist, but one of the ways in which I (and they) know they&#039;re right wing is &lt;i&gt;because&lt;/i&gt; they&#039;re racist... (and yes, they do tend to be a pretty cognitively limited lot.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is there a bit of conflating assumptions and conclusions here? Quite a few of the right-wingers I know are racist, but one of the ways in which I (and they) know they&#8217;re right wing is <i>because</i> they&#8217;re racist&#8230; (and yes, they do tend to be a pretty cognitively limited lot.)</p>
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		<title>Comment on Missing Link Friday &#8211; Conservatism, prejudice and intelligence by hammygar</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2012/02/10/missing-link-friday-conservatism-prejudice-and-intelligence/#comment-464663</link>
		<dc:creator>hammygar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 05:35:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.ozblogistan.com.au/?p=18686#comment-464663</guid>
		<description>I think Monbiot is quite correct.  The conservatives I know are invariably rather dense, and devoid of any depth of thinking capablity, as well as uneducated. Almost universally the university-educated people I know have a correct attitude to political issues.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Monbiot is quite correct.  The conservatives I know are invariably rather dense, and devoid of any depth of thinking capablity, as well as uneducated. Almost universally the university-educated people I know have a correct attitude to political issues.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Greek default death spiral by Pedro</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2012/02/07/the-greek-default-death-spiral/#comment-464654</link>
		<dc:creator>Pedro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 03:34:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.ozblogistan.com.au/?p=18661#comment-464654</guid>
		<description>Dan, eventually a large group doing stupid things may change, when the stupidity is completely exhausted.  The long run solution to their problem is increased productivity.  The maintenance of their current systems and structures do not look like a path to increased productivity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dan, eventually a large group doing stupid things may change, when the stupidity is completely exhausted.  The long run solution to their problem is increased productivity.  The maintenance of their current systems and structures do not look like a path to increased productivity.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Missing Link Friday &#8211; Conservatism, prejudice and intelligence by Pedro</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2012/02/10/missing-link-friday-conservatism-prejudice-and-intelligence/#comment-464653</link>
		<dc:creator>Pedro</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 03:33:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.ozblogistan.com.au/?p=18686#comment-464653</guid>
		<description>I should have thought the connection between racism and stupidity self-evident.  Who could argue with that.  Any cast back over history would also suggest that lower classes are socially conservative.  That doesn&#039;t make conservatism wrong.  As Monbiot notes, lots of smart people are also conservatives.  It looks like a cat. 5 has been jammed into that teacup.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should have thought the connection between racism and stupidity self-evident.  Who could argue with that.  Any cast back over history would also suggest that lower classes are socially conservative.  That doesn&#8217;t make conservatism wrong.  As Monbiot notes, lots of smart people are also conservatives.  It looks like a cat. 5 has been jammed into that teacup.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Missing Link Friday &#8211; Conservatism, prejudice and intelligence by Jacques Chester</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2012/02/10/missing-link-friday-conservatism-prejudice-and-intelligence/#comment-464650</link>
		<dc:creator>Jacques Chester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 02:59:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.ozblogistan.com.au/?p=18686#comment-464650</guid>
		<description>It was jolly fun of them to declare homophobia and racism to be right wing qualities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It was jolly fun of them to declare homophobia and racism to be right wing qualities.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Welcome the global mail &#8211; with a quick snark on second hand car imports by Peter Whiteford</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2012/02/08/welcome-the-global-mail-with-a-quick-snark-on-second-hand-car-imports/#comment-464643</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Whiteford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 02:06:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.ozblogistan.com.au/?p=18677#comment-464643</guid>
		<description>In the name of gratuitous self promotion, I should point out that the article about the top 1% quotes me rather a lot!

However, the material discussed was largely based on a post that I wrote for Australian Policy Online, and reposted here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the name of gratuitous self promotion, I should point out that the article about the top 1% quotes me rather a lot!</p>
<p>However, the material discussed was largely based on a post that I wrote for Australian Policy Online, and reposted here.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Missing Link Friday &#8211; Conservatism, prejudice and intelligence by gilmae</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2012/02/10/missing-link-friday-conservatism-prejudice-and-intelligence/#comment-464642</link>
		<dc:creator>gilmae</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 01:43:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.ozblogistan.com.au/?p=18686#comment-464642</guid>
		<description>Irony, thy name is John J Ray.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Irony, thy name is John J Ray.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Welcome the global mail &#8211; with a quick snark on second hand car imports by Antonios</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2012/02/08/welcome-the-global-mail-with-a-quick-snark-on-second-hand-car-imports/#comment-464637</link>
		<dc:creator>Antonios</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 01:27:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.ozblogistan.com.au/?p=18677#comment-464637</guid>
		<description>What&#039;s most striking about blogs such as this one is that they get to the point much more quickly when compared to journalistic pieces.

A piece in a newspaper has to have a particular structure, be balanced, introduce the back story etc etc. There&#039;s a form to it, and I think journalists sometimes think people are interested in the form rather than the content.

All that gumph is stripped away in blogs, which is thoroughly refreshing. The focus is on the content, not the form that the content is in, which actually ends up making the content more enjoyable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What&#8217;s most striking about blogs such as this one is that they get to the point much more quickly when compared to journalistic pieces.</p>
<p>A piece in a newspaper has to have a particular structure, be balanced, introduce the back story etc etc. There&#8217;s a form to it, and I think journalists sometimes think people are interested in the form rather than the content.</p>
<p>All that gumph is stripped away in blogs, which is thoroughly refreshing. The focus is on the content, not the form that the content is in, which actually ends up making the content more enjoyable.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Welcome the global mail &#8211; with a quick snark on second hand car imports by David Walker</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2012/02/08/welcome-the-global-mail-with-a-quick-snark-on-second-hand-car-imports/#comment-464631</link>
		<dc:creator>David Walker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 00:25:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.ozblogistan.com.au/?p=18677#comment-464631</guid>
		<description>Just so people know, The Global Mail&#039;s article on secondhand car importing is now up at &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.theglobalmail.org/feature/car-makers-beached-as/44/&quot;&gt;http://www.theglobalmail.org/feature/car-makers-beached-as/44/&lt;/a&gt;.

It will probably be a bit too ethoretical for some, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just so people know, The Global Mail&#8217;s article on secondhand car importing is now up at <a href="http://www.theglobalmail.org/feature/car-makers-beached-as/44/">http://www.theglobalmail.org/feature/car-makers-beached-as/44/</a>.</p>
<p>It will probably be a bit too ethoretical for some, though.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Welcome the global mail &#8211; with a quick snark on second hand car imports by David Walker</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2012/02/08/welcome-the-global-mail-with-a-quick-snark-on-second-hand-car-imports/#comment-464628</link>
		<dc:creator>David Walker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 00:11:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.ozblogistan.com.au/?p=18677#comment-464628</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Good questions [GratuitousPedantry] but if you know the answers to the questions wouldn’t that suggest that they ARE rhetorical questions?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yes, it would. What I&#039;m saying (tyops and all) is that I don&#039;t know the answers. I really don&#039;t. I have some impressions, and the third question is my draft formulation of a test for new local media usefulness. But my impressions and drafts aren&#039;t always right.

Neither is my accuracy, nor my usage. When I wrote &quot;ethoretical&quot;, what I intended to write, of course, was &quot;pratcical&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Good questions [GratuitousPedantry] but if you know the answers to the questions wouldn’t that suggest that they ARE rhetorical questions?</p></blockquote>
<p>Yes, it would. What I&#8217;m saying (tyops and all) is that I don&#8217;t know the answers. I really don&#8217;t. I have some impressions, and the third question is my draft formulation of a test for new local media usefulness. But my impressions and drafts aren&#8217;t always right.</p>
<p>Neither is my accuracy, nor my usage. When I wrote &#8220;ethoretical&#8221;, what I intended to write, of course, was &#8220;pratcical&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Welcome the global mail &#8211; with a quick snark on second hand car imports by Nicholas Gruen</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2012/02/08/welcome-the-global-mail-with-a-quick-snark-on-second-hand-car-imports/#comment-464622</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicholas Gruen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 23:58:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.ozblogistan.com.au/?p=18677#comment-464622</guid>
		<description>Or Patricks occasionally snarky comments . . . :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Or Patricks occasionally snarky comments . . . :)</p>
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		<title>Comment on Welcome the global mail &#8211; with a quick snark on second hand car imports by Patrick</title>
		<link>http://clubtroppo.com.au/2012/02/08/welcome-the-global-mail-with-a-quick-snark-on-second-hand-car-imports/#comment-464617</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Feb 2012 23:41:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://clubtroppo.ozblogistan.com.au/?p=18677#comment-464617</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll have a crack without reading it, let me know if I&#039;m wrong:
&lt;blockquote&gt;1. How may of The Global Mail’s Australian articles couldn’t have been written by a Club Troppo blogger sitting at their desk?&lt;/blockquote&gt;
None.

&lt;blockquote&gt;2. How may of the articles by The Global Mail’s foreign correspondents contain insights for Australians that we couldn’t have gleaned from other foreign media sources already publishing on the Web?&lt;/blockquote&gt;
None.

&lt;blockquote&gt;3. To what extent do the answers to the first two questions determine the theoretical usefulness of well-funded Australian-based journalism ventures like The Global Mail?&lt;/blockquote&gt;
The theoretical usefulness of another well-intentioned source of soft-lefty groupthink is always nil.

And I have a question of my own:
4. Will well-funded Australian-based journalism ventures like The Global Mail ever offer anything greater than this humble blog on its lonesome? 

Good answers to that question may address, for example, Peter Whiteford&#039;s comments on social spending, or Ken Parish&#039;s analysis of con law and refugee and Aborigine issues or NG&#039;s analyses of regulatory and economic policy or Paul Frijter&#039;s comments on economic analysis of government action, etc. Or for that matter David Walker&#039;s comments on media.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll have a crack without reading it, let me know if I&#8217;m wrong:</p>
<blockquote><p>1. How may of The Global Mail’s Australian articles couldn’t have been written by a Club Troppo blogger sitting at their desk?</p></blockquote>
<p>None.</p>
<blockquote><p>2. How may of the articles by The Global Mail’s foreign correspondents contain insights for Australians that we couldn’t have gleaned from other foreign media sources already publishing on the Web?</p></blockquote>
<p>None.</p>
<blockquote><p>3. To what extent do the answers to the first two questions determine the theoretical usefulness of well-funded Australian-based journalism ventures like The Global Mail?</p></blockquote>
<p>The theoretical usefulness of another well-intentioned source of soft-lefty groupthink is always nil.</p>
<p>And I have a question of my own:<br />
4. Will well-funded Australian-based journalism ventures like The Global Mail ever offer anything greater than this humble blog on its lonesome? </p>
<p>Good answers to that question may address, for example, Peter Whiteford&#8217;s comments on social spending, or Ken Parish&#8217;s analysis of con law and refugee and Aborigine issues or NG&#8217;s analyses of regulatory and economic policy or Paul Frijter&#8217;s comments on economic analysis of government action, etc. Or for that matter David Walker&#8217;s comments on media.</p>
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