Manna from Hell

It’s probably an unworthy thought given that at least 5 people (presumably all Indonesian Muslims) have been killed, but I can’t help wondering whether Abu Bakr Bashir is a closet member of the Liberal Party. National security and the War against Terror front and centre.

Update – The Sydney Morning Herald already has a web poll up asking readers to vote on which Australian political party they think will benefit most from the Jakarta terror attack. A bit crass I think. Tim’s echo chamber might want to go over and give the editor a piece of their collective mind.

Then there’s T2, whose latest post castigates Howard’s “(and his minister’s) ongoing willingness to exploit the very real threat of terror for personal political gain (most recent example being Phillip Ruddock dancing on the grave of dead Russian children)“. I don’t accept that that’s a fair statement about Howard, as I made clear in the comment box to this post. Unfortunately most of the RWDBs don’t bother to read past the first line. It makes intelligent discussion with them all but impossible.

About Ken Parish

Ken Parish is a legal academic, with research areas in public law (constitutional and administrative law), civil procedure and teaching & learning theory and practice. He has been a legal academic for almost 20 years. Before that he ran a legal practice in Darwin for 15 years and was a Member of the NT Legislative Assembly for almost 4 years in the early 1990s.
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FirstIraqThenChirac
FirstIraqThenChirac
2021 years ago

Go fuck yourself you sonofabitch.

gubb
gubb
2021 years ago

Yes, you are right it is an unworthy comment.Did you take one moment to consider the loss of human life or just jump straight into a point about political expediency?

tim
tim
2021 years ago

Ken, can you please remove my link from your blogroll?

Thanks.

PQ
PQ
2021 years ago

That’s close to the most despicable comment I have ever seen posted on the net.

You are an arsehole, Parish.

murph
2021 years ago

Ken

I’m surprised and saddened. You are a disgrace.

matt
matt
2021 years ago

Pathetic! You should be ashamed of yourself you shit head

ivan
ivan
2021 years ago

Ken, you are disgusting lowlife!!!

Zoran
Zoran
2021 years ago

You’re a dickhead.

TrueRWDB
TrueRWDB
2021 years ago

This isn’t like you, Ken. I think you should just erase this thread and pretend it never occurred. We all have bad days.

Scott Wickstein
2021 years ago

It’s rather in poor taste Ken. Respect for the dead and all that…

Gary
2021 years ago

You need a holiday Ken.

Martin Pike
2021 years ago

Ken, if the libs attempt to trade off this attack, and make it into another Tampa:

(1) Your comment will be entirely vindicated;
(2) The dribbling reactionaries like TimBliar above will no doubt support that course of action, just as they have supported the absurd notion that anyone who didn’t want to go to war against Iraq was appeasing terror.

Do any of these cocks stop to consider the loss of human life when they rant in support of waging war on miserable people in the develping world?

Did they think there was something dark about how Bush and Howard have done so well, and made no bones about deriving advantage, from the carnage at 11/9 and Bali?

Your unpalatable point will soon be repeated by any newspaper columnest worth their salt, because the unpleasant, foul truth is that there is a good chance it will play into the hands of one side, most probably the Libs.

Bliar is the least sensitive writer on the planet, who is he to talk? Bliar, piss off back under your rock, you dirty little scrote.

Factory
Factory
2021 years ago

MartinP:
Two wrongs don’t make a right.

KP:
I think that it was a comment in poor taste.

attila
2021 years ago

Hey Martin, that is really clever how you spell Blair as ‘Bliar’. Did you have a hand in writing all those witty puns on Dubya’s surname as well? They were a riot.

Whether the incident ‘plays into the hands’ of one side or the other (don’t tell me – Downer rushing over there is an attempt to benefit from it?) is not the point. The point is that our embassy has been bombed, scores of innocents are injured, with some killed, and the only post Parish makes on it is one speculating if the head of JI is a closet member of the Liberal party. You wouldn’t agree that it was inappropriate?

Martin Pike
2021 years ago

Yeah Factory- I was hyper-reacting at the sight of Tim Bliar attempting a moral stance.

Two wrongs don’t make a right, and Ken certainly could have put the point more tactfully.

But tact is not a characteristic I’ve noted across the blogging world, and his underlying point, sadly, is probably right.

Further i see this as EXACTLY the same when so many ignorant fools like Bolt, Tony Parkinson et al fell into line and milked the horrible school siege and murders for their own political agendas.

Dave Ricardo
Dave Ricardo
2021 years ago

Martin, I agree with you.

By the way, are you the Martin Pike who plays for the Brisbane Lions?

Fyodor
2021 years ago

Ken,

I know you won’t worry about the rent-a-loons condemning your poor taste. They’re simply better at emoting than thinking, and righteous outrage is a very satisfying emotion.

You’re just the first person to have said publicly what others (including the Rodent, I suspect) are thinking. Valid point, I thought.

As Martin Pike pointed out, let’s see if our pollies live up to the standard set by the Retarded Right. Personally, I’m expecting the Rodent to attempt something statesmanlike, while that Clown Prince Downer uses all the nuance of a sledgehammer in fishnet stockings to accuse Labor of being gutless on security.

Ken Parish
Ken Parish
2021 years ago

Gee that certainly pressed the RWDBs’ buttons, didn’t it? Obviously I wasn’t intending to be taken literally. Equally obviously, Coalition spin doctors will be calculating the electoral consequences and the appropriate response by Howard. Statesmanlike and restrained, I think. The message sells itself. Any issue that brings national security to the fore is a plus for the Coalition, and that includes Beslan as well as this outrage in Jakarta. Spin doctors know that, and Howard’s people will have been hoping on one level for some such opportunity, while deploring the event and the senseless slaughter as we all do. There’s no point in denying those factors and reactions, and I’m not suggesting that there’s even anything especially wrong with Howard’s spin doctors making those sorts of calculations. Politics is an amoral business, that’s the bottom line. We can rightly be outraged (as everyone was about Beslan) yet still have a critical appreciation of the immediate electoral consequences of such events. If you’d prefer simply to strke morally outraged poses and pretend that there isn’t any domestic political relevance, then feel free to go somewhere else.

Scott Wickstein
2021 years ago

A discussion about the political impact could have waited until the dust had settled though. That is what has upset people.

I must admit that I resent being called a ‘rent-a-loon’ for holding old fashioned notions, but there you go.

random prose
2021 years ago

this reminds me how many moderate muslims look at a terrorist attack and are concerned, but only from a PR standpoint.

Martin Pike
2021 years ago

A bit further down on Bliar’s (actually, I stole this nic off the Spectator Attila, I’m sure you are familiar with it) site, you will notice him dishonestly milking the blood of the Beslan kids to feed his own anti-muslim campaign.

Remove his link, it is just a fan site anyway, anyone who gives him a consistent savaging gets banned (I KNOW from experience!).

Fyodor
2021 years ago

Scott,

My comment was directed more at these specimens:

“Go fuck yourself you sonofabitch.”

AND

“That’s close to the most despicable comment I have ever seen posted on the net. You are an arsehole, Parish.”

Ken obviously had thought about what he was saying, and it was a valid and interesting point. Get over it and move on.

attila
2021 years ago

So you didn’t even think of it yourself Martin, and you have admitted a personal grudge after being banned? Really building up some credibility there pal.
Ken, if I may query a few points of your response:

“the appropriate response by Howard. Statesmanlike and restrained, I think.”

What other response would you like to see? If your embassy is attacked, then you want to see the country’s leader looking calm and in control (though i would hope for a hint of righteous anger as well) Howard wouldn’t need a spin doctor to tell him that (neither would Latham for that matter)

“Howard’s people will have been hoping on one level for some such opportunity, while deploring the event and the senseless slaughter as we all do. ”

That is the bit that irks – the suggestion that there are Australians working for our government that were *hoping* for a terrorist attack on our citizens prior to the election. I know a lot of people have an abiding hatred for Howard, but I don’t know how you could hold such a low opinion of people. Could you ever hope for such an event, even if it benefited your chosen political party? I would expect not, so to suggest that others could is wrong.
It will have a political effect, big events always do, but I dont think you can suggest that there are people that were hoping such an event would occur.

Martin Pike
2021 years ago

Don’t get the relevance of the personal snipes Attila. Is that the name you were born with? Who cares if I stole the Spectator’s nickname for Tony Blair? And a grudge? Of course I do, I dislike the little slug intensely, and that was clear in my posts hence he banned me- not the other way around.

You’re a funny creature Attila, easily irked by red herrings.

As to the rest of your ‘critique, this is the government that milked Tampa- shit, Ruddock was trying to milk Beslan just the other day! Should we have low expectations in terms of where they would stoop? Is Andrew Bolt a green???

Hanyu
Hanyu
2021 years ago

Come on, Ken; the Indonesian rescue crews were still looking for body parts when you posted that initial comment. It’s a pretty emotionally charged environment to start lobbing comments not intended to be taken literally about Abu Bakr Bashir belonging to the Liberal Party. I disagree with your timing and the tone.

Having said that, I want to apologise for what I wrote about you on Tim’s site. It was rude, uncalled for, and I’m sorry.

Kind regards

Hanyu

Martin Pike
2021 years ago

And poor Hanyu is fending off comments on the other end of the spectrum, on Bliar’s site, about how we should attack Indonesia with cruise missiles or invade.

Good on you Hanyu, your ability to apologise puts you a civilised cut above most denizens of the bogosphere…

Martin Pike
2021 years ago

And Dave Ricardo- apart from being bald and having the same name, I’m nothing like my namesake the crunching Lions player. I’m yet another lawyer, waiting to be tossed to the bottom of the ocean…

attila
2021 years ago

You don’t see the relevance of personal snipes Martin – but i am a ‘funny creature’ and Blair is a ‘scrote’ and a ‘little slug’? You might not see their relevance, but you are a big fan of their use apparently.

Your ‘retort’ also missed my point. I wasn’t referring to people using the event for political gain (as you are suggesting was done with Tampa and Beslan), i was referring to people suggesting that advisors to Howard would be *hoping* that such an event would occur. Hoping for such a thing is a much more wicked act than making mileage out of a tragedy once it has occured (which I agree is also immoral)

Martin Pike
2021 years ago

Nooo Attila my friendly hun, I’m not decrying insults. What i said was:
‘Don’t get the relevance of THE personal snipes Attila’… THose personal snipes, not personal sniping generally. You were using them as part of your argument, as if they won rhetorical points for you, which obviously they didn’t. Anyway, tis lost in semantics, but that IS what I was getting at.

You ARE a funny creature, but I don’t intend being more insulting. Bliar is a nasty piece of work, so that’s another matter entirely.

Sadly I do suspect that Howard’s advisers have prayed every day for another Tampa. But I see and understand the distinction you draw…

PB
PB
2021 years ago

I must admit I thought when I heard the news “smart move, JI- you’ve just re-elected John Howard”. The attack was diabolical, but is also tactically beyond stupid. If they’re hoping for a Spainish-style turnaround, they don’t know Australians very well.

Jacques Chester
Jacques Chester
2021 years ago

My thought also, PB. Almost certainly a misreading of Australian politics by opportunistic terrorists.

Andjam
2021 years ago

Ken, can you please remove my link from your blogroll?

And my link too please?

Ken Parish
Ken Parish
2021 years ago

Being aware on one level that some such event may happen, planning for it, and even contemplating that it may be politically advantageous if it occurs, are not the same thing as praying or hoping for it. I wouldn’t accuse either Howard or his advisers of doing the latter in the full sense, but they’d be fools if they hadn’t done the former. Like most Australian bloggers, one of my current focuses is the forthcoming federal election, and I’m looking at everything partly through the prism of its electoral impact, just like Howard and Latham’s advisers are doing. Unless you’re a very limited person, it isn’t too difficult to simultaneously deplore such an event and calculate what its political consequences may be and what you should do given the immediate reality of an election campaign.

Presumably the outrage of the RWDBs springs from assuming that my comments were intended to convey some moral condemnation of Howard as someone who would insincerely and cynically capitalise on a terrorist outrage. In fact I accept his sincerity, but also accept that he (or at least his advisers) will necessarily be factoring in political consequences and responses.

As someone who hopes Labor wins, my own immediate response includes a consciousness of the fact that such an event is likely to favour Howard, alongside horror and anger at the event itself.

Lastly, I can’t help wondering whether this is mostly just a vindictive payback by Mr Blair for my recent suggestions that his fascistic comment box banning policies merited condemnation (as they do). Note that I won’t be banning any of Tim’s acolytes from this comment box (in the absence of defamation), despite some extreme and silly comments. Contrast that with Tim’s own policies, which would certainly have resulted in several bannings by now had the comments been made on his blog.

Ken Parish
Ken Parish
2021 years ago

PS I also won’t be removing any hyperlinks to other blogs. The Troppo blogroll aims to be as comprehensive as possible. If you don’t want to link this blog from yours, feel free not to do so. It’s a free country.

Jacques Chester
Jacques Chester
2021 years ago

It’s a tangential issue, Ken, but the site is his. Whatever you think of his comments policy, “fascism” is hardly the word to apply. Let’s stop diluting political words by overgenerous application to things we don’t like.

Jack Strocchi
2021 years ago

Dear Ken,
I agree with the trueRWDB. You are a decent fellow but this post was unworthy of you. You don’t want to stoop to Bob Ellis’s level. You are better than that. We all have bad days.
At moments like these we should close ranks and be Australian citizens together. United in our sympathy for decent Indonesians and antipathy to these wicked terrorists.
Instead of digging yourself in further just admit that it was an silly thing to say. Apologise to all and sundry and Issue an immediate retraction.
There’s a good chap.

Martin Pike
2021 years ago

As I’ve only joined you as a regular recently Ken, I didn’t realise you had done a spiel on Bliar’s policies on banning dissenting voices. Obviously he does it quite frequently, and I’m not just a one-off. What a coward- and no Attila, that’s not an insult, just an objective description!

Gary
2021 years ago

Martin Pike

Only one was “on the other end of the spectrum” (bongoman) the other two (Michael, Nemesis) like you and Ken were trying to use this tragedy to score points.

“I can’t help wondering whether this is mostly just a vindictive payback by Mr Blair”

How do you come to that conclusion Ken? Did he send people over hear.

tim
tim
2021 years ago

Payback, Ken? Hardly. It might be payback if I removed your link from my site, but I’ve never linked to you anyway. Call it foresight.

I don’t know why you link to me at all, actually. You hate my writing, think I’m a hopeless wannabe, and go on and on and ON about the banned commenters. (One weird post of yours used this to compare me unfavourably with Professor Bunyip — who doesn’t allow ANY comments.)

Anyway, again I make the polite request: please remove me from your links. And then go to the Shame Closet and think about what you’ve done, little man.

Andrea Harris
2021 years ago

Mr. Parrish, when even Jack Strocchi tells you that your post was unworthy of you, maybe you had better rethink your position.

Oh well, off to ban more trolls and people who wear funny shoes!

Tim’s Acolyte.

Andrea Harris
2021 years ago

By the way, Tim Blair didn’t send anyone over here; a commenter linked to this post with the phrase “first stupid comment spotted.” Out of curiosity, I looked. There’s about one-and-a-half minutes I’ll never get back. Oh well.

Martin Pike
2021 years ago

Little man? Didn’t realise you were physically imposing Bliar, why then are you such a coward?

Keep his link, but put it under miscelaneous uneducated turds.

Have a great weekend kids!

bains
bains
2021 years ago

Sir, are you hoping for a Spanish style reaction amongst your countrymen? Maybe a if you dont look the terrorists in the eyes, they won’t notice you type apoplexy?

Graham
2021 years ago

Oh, c’mon, Ken was only saying what a lot of people were thinking. Sheesh.

Alex White
2021 years ago

I got a chill when it occured to me that Howard could use the bombing of the embassy for political gain. The unfortunate thing is that he won’t need to do so overtly. In his press conference on it, he directly criticised the Labor Party for not being available immediately to comment; fear-mongers on the right will also make us of this event without Howard needing to do so himself.

Stephen Hill
Stephen Hill
2021 years ago

Is this a record on the “fucktard geiger counter”?

The post may be a little unnecessarily provocative (But I know that there would be plenty of people in this country having similar thoughts to Ken, if only privately, and of both political affiliation – as noone knows how this is going to pan-out in the following weeks).

For this should we send in the thought police out for people who would have such throughts or those who might be under suspicion of harboring such thoughts. Which reminds me where are all those brave defenders of political correctness they seem rather silent. Funny, how they never come out to defend the blocking of discource when it inconveniences their own political world-view.

Troy
2021 years ago

For fucks sake. Both Latham and Howard managed to tell the disrespectful media that now is no time for petty politics. They are both bigger men than you.

Scott Wickstein
2021 years ago

I’m going to return to my RWDB roots and crush dissent on this issue. Comments are closed- go to sleep, think about it and come back in the morning.

Ken Parish
Ken Parish
2021 years ago

Thanks Scott. I’ve opened up the comments again for now, however (having just got home from a recce of the motor auctions prepearatory to buying a new one next month).

The comment thread has bene mostly unproductive, but not completely so. And even if it continues as mindless abuse, it helps to get it off people’s chests. It might help more however if some of Tim’s mates bothered to read my earlier comments, because you’re arguing against sentiments I neither expressed nor intended. As Mark Bahnisch just said to me in a private email:
What some people appear unable to understand is that humans can have two thoughts simultaneously – at the same time I was deeply saddened by what had occurred. But I see no reason why, as citizens of a democratic nation involved in an election, we cannot continue to debate what impact events have on our political process. Nor do I think this is in any way disrespectful to the victims. Surely the beauty of a democratic society lies in the strength of its freedom of speech and the integrity of its public sphere.
Precisely, and that’s why I don’t censor comment box debate, and have a low opinion of Tim Blair because he does.

Tex
Tex
2021 years ago

Am I the only blogger who doesn’t care about who-bans-who in their comments box? Noone is under any obligation to provide anyone else with a forum on their own blogspace. You want a say in something, get your own webspace.