PPE, the combined undergraduate course of philosophy, politics and economics became popular in Oxford in the early part of the twentieth century. It acquired the name “Modern Greats” by analogy with “Greats” or classics which was ancient history, philosophy and languages which had previously been a prerequisite of admission into professions such as the civil service. Wikipedia reports that “It was . . . the first opportunity for students to study philosophy at Oxford without having to learn Ancient Greek or Latin and hence sparked a huge growth in the number of students studying philosophy at Oxford” and says that it’s reappeared as a popular approach in some American universities today.
On a recent visit to Asia, looking around at the incredible teeming surge of humanity all around, I rang home and said to my kids that they’d have a more exciting life if they learned Mandarin. Our new PM’s facility in Mandarin has only increased my excitement on the subject (I can’t speak a word of Mandarin however!).
In any event, it got me wondering what skills I would include as basic tertiary education these days.
I haven’t tried to be too systematic here, but there are a bunch of disciplines which in my experience one can introduce people to relatively quickly, which offer powerful systems of thought and which people feel intimidated by – and unnecessarily so – if they’ve not had proper exposure.
For instance when I did the only subject in law I really liked, the introductory course then called Legal Method at ANU, I found it a revelation and immediately thought that the one semester intro would be highly worthwhile for pretty much everyone to learn. In it I learned the basic techniques and outlook of common law and statutory interpretation. The rest of the law course was incredibly repetitious – taking the principles learned in in the initial course to one interminable subject after another. Contracts, Torts, Admin, Trusts, Property, Succession, Family and on it went.
Anyway what other subjects might be regarded as essential to a modern education? I think a similar introductory course on the principles of economics would be equally beneficial. It could be taught quite quickly and provides access to a very powerful style of thought. One wouldn’t worry too much about the maths except for those who wanted to go on with it. But it would not be like high school economics which is a low grade intro to economic phenomena and ‘the economy’.
It would be an introduction to the way in which the discipline of economics is built as a system of thinking – perhaps some basic Smith on how the invisible hand works, the dilemmas of central planning, Ricardo’s extension of that into marginalism, the idea of equilibrium as a central concept for thinking systematically about counterbalancing forces, the way in which consumer theory is built up, ideas like positive and negative feedback (with demand and supply in competitive industries as examples of the former and supply and demand with increasing returns and some basic Keynesian ideas on macro-economics figuring as positive feedback). One might add some basic ideas of mechanism design and strategy with simple introductions to things like the prisoner’s dilemma.
I’d like to see some exposure to broader ‘methodological’ questions. I’m not sure it could be handled as an intro ‘philosophy’ subject. Philosophy is very intriguing for undergrads, but I reckon they’re not ready for the full on thing (I suspect most of us, including me, are never ready for it). I think a more compelling introduction to ‘philosophical’ ideas is provided by a methodologically sceptical and aware teaching of other subjects. In theory this could be economics or law, but my own experience is that the theoretical aspects of these subjects are not very well handled – being parcelled off into low status ‘Philosophy of Law’ and ‘Philosophy of Economics’ courses. The only thing I’d call real education I ever got at uni was doing an honours major in history. By the time I did history it was at a very interesting stage where most good history was at the same time highly methodologically aware – a kind of reflection on its subject matter and itself, without having yet disappeared into the self conscious contortions that became ‘cultural studies’ a few years later. It was a great experience.
After that I’m back in territory – like Mandarin – where I wish I had more knowledge and training than I do. Six months of accounting would have been better than the zero months I spent.
I’d like to have had a year or so getting really involved in computer coding – coding is clearly a powerful metaphor for thinking about many things today – like the generation and dissemination of meaning. And given that the coming century very likely be the century of genetic engineering. Of course coding and genetics are converging to some extent – unified by the idea of digital reproduction.
Well, like I said, this list is not too systematic or well thought out. Perhaps some will take it as simple dilettantism, but at least in the areas I know something about it isn’t dilettantish to have some background in law, so one can appreciate legal arguments, or economics for the same reason. I can speak with more authority there where I have some experience than I can where I don’t. Would it be worth having a working introductory knowledge to coding and genetics. I can’t be sure, but I think perhaps the answer is ‘yes’.
As an undergrad I was so intrigued by philosophy that I stuck with it all the way to honours.
So I’m curious. What do you think the full on thing is?
Jacques Chester
Fuck the Latin!! Dopey derivative wogs that the Romans were! Ancient Greek is the window to western civilisation, dude. ;)
http://larvatusprodeo.net/2008/01/04/cultural-elites-dont-exist-study-finds/#comment-424782
Don, the easy questions first ey?
I’m not sure I can do such a great job of defending what I’ve said, but I still think it’s true. One of the things implicit – and at one place expressed in the post – is the idea of being ‘ready’ for something. I recall a lesson our science teacher gave his year 11 or perhaps year 12 kids which was along the lines of ‘all I’ve taught you is wrong’.
One could take some of the subjects I’ve mentioned and say they should be taught in school. Maybe they should be. I have no objection to their being so taught. But in my experience of teaching of both economics and law in schools the subject is not really taught as a discipline, but rather as a bunch of interesting topics. In economics at high school you might do a project on banks, or the car industry or consumers. In Legal Studies you might learn ‘your rights’. But you’re not typically introduced to a system of thought.
Philosophy – or much of it – is such a rarefied subject that as an undergraduate you often think you get it, but you actually don’t. I remember when I did ‘doubt and certainty’ in Philosophy 1 at ANU I wrote a silly essay in which I introduced some killer argument about doubt – like how do I know I’m not dreaming – then argued that I couldn’t know, and went on to argue that we should forget the whole subject since it got us nowhere. In some ways I think that’s an OK response to some of the formal arguments – in Descartes for instance – but it’s pretty damn shallow. And it doesn’t really get one anywhere in terms of understanding the world.
I’m not really sure I understand the arguments today. But for me the concerns of academic philosophy proper are often too abstruse to help one ruminate constructively on the things that life and study throws up.
Then again Don, I may well be wrong, but I expect a fair bit of your philosophy studies would have been political philosophy. And from what I’ve read of political philosophy, I’m wondering if it’s not closer to rhetoric (I’m not using the word in a disparaging way) than other branches of philosophy.
Jacques
Mate, I went to the westiest worst comprehensive state school going, BUT – like you – I was good at, and LOVED, Maths: YOU (like me) already know the entire Greek alphabet and the sounds that go with each letter. I have been teaching myself Ancient Greek on the back of only my Maths education and uni History courses.
You would have NO trouble.
Ancient Greek is just so exciting, because it (and NOT Latin) is the source of all our western words and concepts about science, philosophy, ethics, philosophy, emotion, blah, blah, blah.
If you live in Sydney, perhaps we could start a redaing group! :)
No, that came later.
Epistemology and philosophy of mind were where I focused. I also did a major in psychology.
I also did some a fair bit of philosophy of science, some philosophy of language and a bit of ethics. Ethics was the most difficult — at the time I wasn’t sure it was possible to say anything sensible. As for normative political philosophy I thought it was built entirely on naive assumptions and prejudice — a complete waste of time. I think I may have decided that it was all about power.
But graduating didn’t prevent me from reading and thinking. And eventually I did develop an interest in political theory.
Nicholas, it’s not clear from this post whether you have doubts about the standard economic principles course that most universities offer. I seem to remember some criticisms in a previous post, but I couldn’t swear to it. Is there something fundamental you think we’re doing wrong?
Also, did you mean literally that students should read Smith and Ricardo in a principles course? I’m all for including a history of economics subject in a degree program (indeed I have a vested interest in it), or including Smith and Ricardo in a subject on the history of modern liberal thought, which might be part your broader ‘Modern Greats’ program. But I don’t want to have students reading Smith and trying to get a systematic grasp on the theory of markets simultaneously.
James,
I don’t think I’ve criticised ‘economic principles’ courses here or anywhere else. I think ‘economic principles’ are the most important part of the course – economic thinking if you will and that the rest is the box of tools to operationalise the principles or to further analysis.
I don’t mean students of the kind of intro course I’m talking about should read Smith – they could if they wanted as some special assignment for assessment or whatever, but I’m talking about them being taught the ideas and their power.
“Is there something fundamental you think were doing wrong?”
Well I’m not sure if teachers are particularly to blame, but the culture of the profession is pretty terrible I’d say in that the connections between things are simply left out. If you read Marshall, Keynes or pretty much any book of economic theory before WWII you will find careful discussion of whether or not the particular techniques that are deployed are justified, what their weaknesses are and strategies to minimise the problems. Hicks’ stuff in Value and Capital about making a risky getaway with perfect competition is a terrific case in point. If you don’t know what passage I’m talking about, say so and I’ll quote it.
That simply doesn’t happen any more. Published articles and often books simply plough on with the technique without any regard for the question of whether this particular effort is worth it or not. A field like strategic trade theory gets going without any careful consideration, with virtually no commentary from any of its practitioners of the kind that Hicks employed in explaining his choice of perfect competition in Value and Capital.
And then latter on people say “well it didn’t amount to much, but we couldn’t have known that in advance”. This is Krugman’s line. Perhaps that’s so, but it might have been worthwhile to give it just a few column inches before the event.
And one has completely bizarre fields develop like real business cycles.
These are my worst complaints, but the post is about another lacuna which is pretty important, namely that what it is that economists do is no longer regarded as solving those economic problems that look most prospective of solutions (better legal procedure would be an excellent example). Rather economics is that activity which uses certain tools and strategies. To me the subject matter and the commonsensical purposes should govern the methods, not visa versa.
James, I’ve just realised that I’ve responded to your comment as if it were a comment on my other current post – disciplinary biases – rather than a comment on this one. D’oh! Still, it’s not totally out of place here – just rather out of place.
OK, I’ll bite (but first, must observe that Charles Ryder’s cousin Jasper pompously warned him that the very worst school at Oxford was Modern Greats.)
I think, really, that what students learn at university is not ultimately terribly important as long as they learn whatever it is well, and the whole experience doesn’t destroy their natural curiosity and interest in the world, or leave them sure that they’ve learned all there is to know.
‘Systems of thought’ vs. ‘a bunch of interesting topics’ – the former is obviously (or, obviously from the point of view of older people who have learned about and regret the frightening gaps in their own education) more valuable to have a grasp of and seems like a far better use of the limited time students are up at the university. But to be honest the majority of students commencing their university careers find abstract topics boring or baffling and do much better accumulating a good range of interesting niche knowledge and skills first, and joining them together as a system later on and independently.
All that said I think it would be both useful and interesting for most people to learn something about the Enlightenment and about Romanticism.
I agree on the importance of explicitly teaching students how to think, or about different and very useful frameworks about seeing the world, but I think the substance matters too.
I think everybody should learn history, as much of it as they can bear, and a language (Mandarin would be great, and might well be my next language, but any will do). Then, I agree with learning some base in economic frameworks as you suggest. I think the parts you suggest should be spread out with history and language being for the length of the entire course.
For a bright kid I don’t think it matters too much what subjects they study, as long as they study a fairly wide range of unrelated subjects and, above all, are taught it well. In this case, by “teaching it well” I mean that the joy of the subject is not killed and intellectual curiosity is preserved. The best gift you can pass on to a child is a love of reading.
Given that, and the great breadth rather than great depth of learning the wide range of subjects implies, it’s the exact opposite of what all those Gradgrindian businessman want – rote-learning of specific skills and enforcement of work discipline. These last are certainly important to earning a good living and so have to be taught sometime and somewhere, but man does not live by bread alone.
What businessmen exactly? This doesn’t correlate with my experiences at all – imhe critical thinking and ability to learn are the priorities for businessmen.
How to change tap washers and spindle O rings, fix a leaking cistern and basic car service might be a bloody good place to start.
I would include a course in logic. Used to be a key part of any philosophy course. A dip into the enlightenment wouldn’t hurt either.
For users of the English language, its history is a very useful passtime.
I think Introduction to Rocket Science would be a useful subject since that’s the common yardstick by which the complexity of absolutely everything else is judged.