The biggest sporting thrill of my life came when Muhammed Ali managed to bamboozle the monster George Foreman to regain the world title that had been wrongly taken from him for his stand against the Vietnam war in the 1960s. What an remarkable, courageous, crazy guy. Anyway, I hope you enjoy this piece of fun.
And here’s Joyce Carol Oates on Ali. Never the white man’s negro.
Joyce Carol Oates
While I love Muhammad Ali for his antics and fine boxing, I really feel that boxing has had its day. It really is a primitive sport, and the sight of two blokes belting their opponent into a senseless state (with the high potential of permanent brain damage) is not the sign of a civilized society.
I think we can do better than that.
Peter I find your comment to be both insulting and distasteful to say the very least. To describe Muhammad Ali’s contributions, achievements and stature as an athlete and social reformist as “antics and fine boxing” clearly reflects your ignorance of the man whom you have deemed to comment on upon his death. The only appropriate reply I can make is to paraphrase Gough Whitlam on his retort to a journalist in his support to legalise abortion “Let me make it quite clear that I am for abortion, and in your case Sir, we should make it retrospective” a point that which very much applies to you.
Yep, agreed. In some ways Ali kept boxing going. And then the next guy with real charisma, though it was of a very different kind – Iron Mike – who himself turns out to be fantastically intelligent and articulate about the shitty life that boxing gave him a way out of – and looking after pigeons.
Postscript: I was agreeing with Peter, and my comment was written before I read Philip’s comment which was held up in moderation.
Nicholas, Peter, I come from a familly of boxers and we too have come to the same conclusion which is why I, my uncles and cousins now actively discourage participation in the boxing having seen the effects both short and long term. What angered me was the connection between the passing of a great man who had done so much for so many and the barbarity of the sport, thus my post.
Sorry. His stand on Vietnam notwithstanding, Ali was not such a great guy. He constantly denigrated Frazier for being a “gorilla” and used to mimic him. He called him an Uncle Tom. And Frazier died penniless in the same gym he trained in in the 1960s. And he insults Frazier and Foreman again in this speech and everyone applauds! Such unequal treatment by the fawning morons in the Harvard audience.
Ali was involved in the Nation of Islam who think Whites are descended from Devils and were (perhaps still are) preparing for a race war (they have that in common with the KKK). I enjoyed the big fights back in the day, but never his arrogance. And he set the precedent for boxers being loud mouthed blow-hards ever since.
Give me Martin Luther King or Sydney Poitier as a black role model any day.
I can’t disagree Chris but I have a different attitude to you more in line with Malcom-X than Martin Luther. He was no saint but on balance I would say he did more good than bad and inspired a generation to fight for dignity and equality for all.
Just in addition Chris, and in I say this with respect and agreeance with what you have said, his involvement with The Nation of Islam made me cringe and I was thankful when he eventually distanced himself from them but I find we often judge history on today’s standards which I feel is a mistake. I think to appreciate Ali you need to look at his life in its entirety especially his early years before converting to Islam and why he did so. I feel the fate of Frazier was a tremendous injustice and tragedy but there were many at the time who felt he was an “Uncle Tom” to the white controlled boxing world when, again in my opinion, it was simply in his nature as a humble and passive soul in a vicious and cut throat sport. I so greatly admired Ali because even when I disagreed with what and how he expressed himself he did so with absolute belief and complete disregard for the consequence, in other words he spoke from the heart so always no confusion on his options, something I see very little of in today’s leaders.
Thanks Chris,
Yes, there is that side of it. I was surprised to see Frazier looking dapper and happily reconciled to Ali in a This is your Life episode for Ali filmed after Ali’d retired (though perhaps that was before he came back again). Meanwhile Foreman seems to be buying into the greatest schtick.
So I put it down to his blarney which was often pretty well understood I think. But Frazier was not impressed in the end, and I completely accept that view. In many ways we’re mesmerised by an extraordinary degree of charisma, and his extraordinary achievements in the ring – I know I am to an irrational degree. Him and Bobby Fischer. Fruitloops whose achievements seemed to come from another planet. Hard not to get drawn into it.
If I’m to defend it however, his stand on Vietnam was extraordinary. His militancy right from the getgo for black rights and black pride I think was quite extraordinary coming from where he came from. Jack Johnson’s defiance was even more extraordinary given how much worse things were for him, but they were both worthy of our awe I think.
Are you insane? Clay was courageous? What’s courageous avoiding a hot war , you very, very silly person.
Your right, in AD 939 the Holy Roman Empire should have stepped in and kept Vietnam Chines, but maybe that’s a stretch. How about the British Empire stepping in when the French “Colonized” the Indochina peninsula, or would that have been an over reaction. Of course the eminent fall of Asia to the Communist must force the world to act, maybe that’s why Socialism is so proliphic in South East Asia. No war is just or right and no one should be forced to fight in a war they don’t believe in, that’s why in civilised societies we have consciences objectors. Some protest by not fighting other by breaking unfair laws. The right of decent is a fundamental part of any free society and has formed the basis of change for many at the cost of individual freedoms and the persecution of many. It’s a brave act to believe your right and say no when all around say your wrong.
“Him and Bobby Fischer. Fruitloops whose achievements seemed to come from another planet. Hard not to get drawn into it.” Quote of the week I think.
Seems like Waleed Ali partly agrees with me, but adds some rather interesting insights as usual. (http://www.theage.com.au/comment/dont-turn-mohammad-ali-into-a-sanitised-caricature-20160609-gpf0l4.html)
Finally, even though I do respect his stand on Vietnam, as someone recently pointed out to me: if he had gone to Vietnam he would have lost his title as well (though not been stripped).
On that last point, perhaps, but I don’t think you can gainsay his ‘crazy brave’ courage. My more timid soul is in awe.
By the way, I saw Waheed Ali’s column a few days ago and didn’t get to the end of it – not because it wasn’t interesting, but just some amateur time management. Anyway, reminded by you of it I’ve just finished it and think it’s fantastic. Agree completely with his identification of his greatness. Which was his heedless courage to be who he chose to be, as “someone who refused to be scared”.
When I came to the passage quoting Muhammed Ali as saying he was prepared to face a firing squad with Waheed Ali saying we believe him, I thought of someone else for whom we have a similar kind of awe, though we need more romantic reconstruction to really feel good about what he did. Ned Kelly, who, in an extraordinary exchange with Justice Redmond Barry after he’d pronounced the death sentence upon him said this “It is not that I fear death. I fear it as little as to drink a cup of tea.”. I believed Kelly too.
Yes, he sure had courage. And for all I know, he may have ended up being a terrific person but it not the old inform Ali that is so celebrated. it is the young Ali who was a mixture of courage and arrogance. On the other hand, how many of us would remain humble if we looked like he did and could do what he did?
I would like to have heard a little more from him in the past 30 years though. Was he really sorry for humiliating Frazier who could not defend himself with words? He renounced the Nation of Islam but he got of lightly I think. Interviewers did not go after him for it. Compare how Cat Stevens got hounded for one ironic statement about Salman Rushdie.
Agree with you that interviewers should have pressed him harder on how he treated Frazier. But I also think we’re judging an extraordinary person in a way that perhaps makes such things quibbles. Ali’s extraordinary disregard of others’ good opinion was what made him so remarkable. And it would be surprising if it didn’t lead him to do some dis-graceful things.