A letter to Scandinavia

Dear Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Finland, and Iceland (Scandinavia),

First off, thank you for the last 18 months. Almost alone in ‘the West’, you have either avoided covid madness completely (Sweden) or at least regained your sanity more quickly (the rest). You have not deprived your children of education and the chance to be kids. You have not prevented your health services from helping the population with their pressing health needs. You have not made it impossible for families and friends to socialise. You have not destroyed your small businesses by over-regulation and forced closures. You have not forced vaccines on people but allowed them to choose. You have not militarised your police and instituted controls on free speech.

You have still been a little crazy, true, but compared to the self-destructive madness that has engulfed most of Europe, the Americas, and particularly Australia, you have been an island of reason, proof that there was another way. Thank you.

I want to briefly sketch the reality that now holds in the rest of the West because we will need you to be an island of reason for quite a bit longer, perhaps years. The developments in the rest of the West are not good. They are both an opportunity and danger to you.


               A dark age

To be blunt, most countries in Europe and America are now back in the darkness of the middle ages: they are run by very small elites that belittle the vast majority of the population. They have set up a totalitarian system with militarised police and constant surveillance. The rulers are the super-rich who run the large companies, control the media, fund most of the think-tanks, are the main funders of political parties, and yet avoid their own tax responsibilities. Like the barons of the middle ages, they tax and control the population but they do not contribute. They form a coalition with the top politicians.

The old middle classes who used to carry the institutions of the West now face high tax burdens and are slowly marginalised. The majority of the population is increasingly controlled, unable to travel without permission, see others without permission, go out without permission, or protest without permission. Institutionalised science, particularly medicine, is now subservient to state propaganda and the interests of the super-rich. Science to the rulers is now just a source of stories and technologies to help control and rob the population. Truth is no obstacle at all to them.

A crucial element of this ‘neo-feudal age’ is the story that the population is sinful, with salvation coming from obedience to authority. In essence, each person is told that others are a danger to them so that only authority can be trusted. In the middle-ages, the story was that the devil hid in other people and that one needed to be subservient to authority to go to heaven.

The current version is that ‘other’ people supposedly have viruses, rude opinions, environment-destroying habits, conspiracy theories, and ugly histories. As a result, normal people should ‘cover their shame’ (masks), be retrained, buy dispensation for their sins (tests, self-isolate), and engage in constant cleansing rituals. Like in the middle ages, the propaganda of the powerful bombards the population with the message that they should “repent their sins and obey”. They censor many opposing voices, accuse and marginalise them, or flood the market with so much nonsense that few can separate the truth from the lies. It is an old tactic and it works.

I urge you to analyse the truth of this new reality. See it for what it is: a take-over by the super-rich. I do not think that it can last, or even that it can last that long. But for now, they have won and we are living in the reality that suits their needs.

There is opportunity for you in this new situation: you can attract those who want to escape the mental slavery that now rules much of the West. New innovative companies will want to come to you. Young people looking for fun will want to spend their holidays with you. The best and the brightest will want to be at your universities to get real learning. You can be the ‘place to be’ for those who still value freedom and fun. Like Western Europe attracted millions of dynamic intelligent people from Eastern Europe during the dark years of the Soviet Union, so too can you now be the promised land for the whole of the West. That will benefit the whole of the West since your example will show that a better way is possible.

There is also danger for you in this new feudal age that has arisen. You may well be a target for manipulation if you are seen to threaten the position of the new rulers. The new rulers might buy up your media, push political candidates that do their bidding, and make life hard for your businesses. Be vigilant and do not underestimate what may come at you.

There is also the danger that you will become just the same anyway. If you let the inequality in your own country rise then you too will become a land of slaves kept in darkness. If you passively accept the sin story propaganda coming from the rest of the West, then you also will gradually be swept along by one bullshit story after another. Fail to resist either the story that you are sinful slaves or the reality that the majority of the wealth is in the hands of a few, then slaves you will become.


               Have self-belief

To resist the dangers and take the opportunities, you will need to believe you are better than the rest of the West. If you believe you are better, then you will laugh at the idiocy elsewhere and make your plans for how to take advantage and avoid the dangers. Fail to believe you are better and you will find it hard to resist.

So here is my main message for you: right now, Scandinavia is better than the rest of the West. You are a happier, more equal, and more sane region than any other in the West. It was not like that for much of the last 2,000 years but it is true now. You represent the best we have at this moment. I hope the rest recovers, but until it does, it is your job to prosper. I beg you to be our example, for all our sakes.

Good luck.

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42 Responses to A letter to Scandinavia

  1. Lars says:

    Today I went into a supermarket in Oslo to do the everyday grocery shopping. Unlike in some other countries, there was no security guard at the entrance demanding to scan a covid pass. (As an unvaccinated I will never, ever get one.) I could just freely walk in. Inside nobody was asking why I didn’t wear a face mask, because nobody else was wearing it anymore.

    Back in 2019 visiting the same supermarket; were just the same-old-same-old boring routine. Today I felt a surge of joy in feeling yet again the freedom of just plain old pre-2020 normal life. Just being able to do this mundane thing without any hassle.

    A few weeks before the end of the last set of restrictions, I could feel a shift in the Norwegian collective consciousness saying: “We are done with the restrictions; we want our freedom back again.”

    To my delightful surprise we hadn’t elected any power-hungry, deeply corrupted, psychopathic rulers obstructing this wish of the people.

    The world is not out of the woods yet for at least a few years more. The next level probably being fake “climate change” lockdowns.

    But at least for now I cherish a freedom I will not take for granted again.

  2. Nicholas Gruen says:

    We should never forget how our grandfathers fought and wore gas masks in WWI so we shouldn’t ever have to wear face masks in a train just to prevent others getting a potentially serious disease.

    • Nicholas what if what Paul is saying is ,even partly , true ??

    • ianl says:

      And yet another nasty straw man from the nanny state and its’ para-military enforcers (aka police force).

      Why are these deliberately dehumanising masks necessary in the open air with an aerosolised virus carried on drops about 20 nanometres in diameter ? ng avoids this issue. Wot a surprise …

      Annual influenza is periodically a serious disease with a measurable death rate, the lethality depending on the specific mutation for that season. The nanny state is now eyeing this off as another opportunity for total control 6 months of the year.

      Climate lockdown is obviously an opportunity being groomed for the near future. The sitdowns on major UK highways are a test bed, with the para-military aiding the sitdowns.

      pk is absolutely correct here. To the letter.

      • Jerry Roberts says:

        Quite so, Ian. Outdoor masks are obscene. They are psychological warfare. I suspect the main reason is to brutalize our police forces. British psychologist Gary Sidley is interesting on masks. He is interviewed by Reiner Fuellmich and the team on corona-ausschuss.de. It seems a minor point compared to mandatory vaccination but it is all part of the mass hypnosis campaign conducted by governments. The parallels with Nazi Germany are all too obvious.

  3. Jerry Roberts says:

    Thanks Paul for your outspoken courage. The front page of today’s West Australian newspaper(5 October) tells us “No jab no FIFO” The State Government is set to make Covid vaccinations compulsory for fly-in, fly-out workers who constitute a large proportion of the regional work force. Inside the paper we read that the accounting firm Deloitte plans to limit entrance to its offices to vaccinated people.

    These measures are illegal, unconstitutional, unethical and irrational. Covid vaccines are the most dangerous products in the history of modern medicine. Nor is it disputed that vaccinated people are just as likely to pass on the virus as are the unvaccinated. So there is no medical justification for the vaccine apartheid promoted by today’s Australian fascists. That means there are other reasons behind this dark agenda.

    • Lt.Fred says:

      Most of that is flatly wrong.

      Vaccinations reduce virus spread in two ways: by reducing the number of vectors a bug can turn by reducing the likelihood of a person getting it in the first place and then again by reducing the likelihood of that person passing it on. COVID-19 vaccines do both of these things, like all other vaccines. This is not disputed. You’re just wrong.

      COVID vaccines are extraordinarily safe. Again, no real argument to be made here, you’re just spreading lies.

      Vaccine mandates are neither illegal nor – shock horror! – unconstitutional. Mandates have been with us since federation.

      Wrong, wrong, wrong. Stop spreading nonsense and get the vaccine.

      • Jerry Roberts says:

        The facts are not in dispute, Lt. That is one of the fascinating aspects of the Covid project. In 1968 in response to thalidomide Britain set up the Yellow Card system of voluntary reporting to provide early warnings of dangerous medications. The system worked, sending out alarm bells on the deaths and injuries following Covid vaccinations. The VAERS in USA and equivalent system in Europe sounded the same alarms as did the Therapeutic Goods Administration data in Australia.

        Governments ignored the alarm bells. Why? That is the question and the issue. The continued use of such dangerous products is an unprecedented international scandal. A Pfizer whistle blower is due to speak up today (7 October Australian time) and it is hoped more insiders will join him, the legal profession will remember the reason for its existence and more doctors will stand up to the horrible little Hitlers in our parliaments and bureaucracies.

        I am about to sign a petition supporting Luc Montagnier, Richard Fleming, Vera Sharav and others in their efforts to get the International Criminal Court investigating the Covid project. We need a Mark 11 Nuremberg Trial to expose the bad guys.

        For the long term risks of this crazy mass vaccination campaign watch Phillip McMillan’s 25 September interview with Geert Vanden Bossche and Robert Malone.

        • Lt.Fred says:

          All wrong again, of course.

          Did VAERS, the FDA and other side-effect alarm systems really go off after COVID vaccinations?

          No, they did not.

          To quote the TGA weekly side-effect report on the COVID vaccines:

          “The TGA is continually monitoring the safety of the COVID-19 vaccines. The most frequently reported side effects … associated with the vaccines reflect what was seen in the clinical trials and include injection-site reactions such as a sore arm, and more general symptoms such as headache, muscle pain, fever and chills.”

          A grand total of 8 people have died of the only serious reported side-effect of COVID vaccines, the blood clotting that is common to many drugs. Given the 21 million doses administered, this rate is about one-tenth of the death toll of aspirin. No other death has been reported from any coronavirus vaccine in Australia.

          Not complicated, you’re just wrong. Stop reading garbage, stop spreading lies, get the vaccine.



          • Jerry Roberts says:

            Hello Lt. When your neighbour’s grandmother dies five days after vaccination and the doctor suspects the problem was surgery for skin cancer she had a while ago you get the idea that the TGA figures on vaccine deaths and injuries sound reasonable, even conservative.

            • Lt.Fred says:

              Let’s say the TGA missed half the deaths caused by the COVID-19 vaccine, for some reason. That would be a fairly catastrophic underreporting rate, in the context of uniquely huge media attention on a drug’s side-effects, enormous health resources dedicated to detection and of course an industry of snake oil salesmen dedicated to promoting vaccine hesitancy. So I don’t think it’s likely, but let’s say they missed half. If we assume that extraordinarily conservative death toll, the COVID-19 vaccine is about 5 times less deadly than aspirin. Jesus Christ, better ban aspirin quick!

      • Lt.Fred says:

        Just to run down that list of un-peer reviewed self-published opinion, you are quoting, in order:

        A Russian mystic with no qualifications in drug development, who was caught lying about getting FDA approval for a study he conducted last year because he was in the tank with anti-vaxxers on the Trump right. And an outright conspiracy theorist who believes that vaccines were created as a tool of population control by Bill Clinton.

        A career anti-vaxxer (with no relevant qualifications) who falsely claimed the vaccines cause mad cow disease, diabetes, autism and whatever else he feels like this week, based on the results of his own fraudulent studies which could not be replicated independently because he made them up. (The American Council on Science and Health said his earlier claims have “absolutely no basis in scientific fact”).

        A tech dude with no relevant qualifications. The FDA said “there is no scientific data” supporting his claims about vaccines, because he made it all up.

        And the final bit of opinion you’ve cited in your defence was written jointly by that tech dude with no relevant qualifications, a statistician with no relevant qualifications and a researcher with the only relevant qualification in this entire litany of failure, a degree in biology. The FDA said their claim is “inaccurate and based on misinterpreted data” and it’s posted on a misinformation website. The reason it’s wrong is quite funny though – they literally assumed a person who died and a person who didn’t die after a vaccine were equally likely to submit a report to the government’s vaccine adverse reactions system, which is obscure and most people don’t know about. They did this in the assumption that all those people would not have died were it not for the vaccine without checking. They present no evidence that this occured, let alone any proposed mechanism for how a vaccine is supposed to cause unrelated health problems. That’s because they’re liars who don’t care about the facts.

        This is the entire weight of your argument: fraudsters, fake evidence, faked statistics. And with barely a relevant degree among them. I have half a degree in public health and I’m better-qualified than most of these people! Stop spreading lies, get the vaccine.

    • Bozo says:

      Yah, vaccines kill!

    • paul frijters says:


      have you seen this UK Lord speaking up about some of the vaccine side-effects findings in the UK in parliament where his free speech is protected (some of the numbers he quotes are much higher than the ones I get to below)? https://twitter.com/i/status/1447127443018551297
      It is interesting that parliaments are among the very few places that propaganda and censorship cannot mute. Its the same in the Netherlands and many other countries.

      • Paul in NSW about 90 percent of the eligible have had at least one shot ,if there is a problem then it’s not evident. ( I know one person who did feel pretty sick for about ten days after a shot but that’s all )

  4. Lt.Fred says:

    Longstanding, science-based laws designed to keep people healthy and health systems from becoming overloaded with corpses are not a fascist conspiracy. Very, very simple. You may disagree with them. You may think they’re ineffective, or cost more than they’re worth. They are not part of a fascist conspiracy. Not a complicated point.

    • paul frijters says:

      thank you for being (relatively) polite. It makes conversation possible.

      As I have argued in numeral posts on troppo and in my book, it is a fallacy to think governments have followed the science. The exact opposite is true: some of science has followed the governments (betraying actual science). Do you think science is in favour of school closures, violence against demonstrators, draconian anti free-speech laws, mandatory vaccinations, preventing the own population from travelling abroad, etc.?

      I can put it no plainer than that you have been completely fooled on this point. I hope you look into it and start realising what else you have been fooled about.

      • Lt.Fred says:

        You are right that some elements of our pandemic response reflect dumb medical prejudice – chiefly the obsession with fomites, but as you say also the travel ban and so on. This is the same ordinary institutional incompetence that infects a lot of governments’ expert opinion, including in non-medical fields. (Why do the Royal Colleges still control the supply of doctors for instance?). But vaccine and other medical mandates have been with us as long as we’ve had vaccines, they do work and are effective, and remain one of the handful of tools we have in the face of snake oil salesmanship from the fake medicine industry. You do not have to agree with me that they work, and you do not have to agree with me they are evidence-based. But if medical mandates were going to drive us down the slippery slop to Auschwitz surely after 100+ years they would have done so by now.

        With regard to violence against protestors, I’ve been in a few, and I’ve never seen a rally so violent treated so politely by the cops. If my causes had done half what the Melbourne crew did, the cops would have opened fire with live bullets.

        I’ve yet to see a “draconian free-speech law”. I wonder which one you mean.

    • Mercurial says:

      I think you’re on the wrong website mate. This is all conspiracy here.

  5. Harry Clarke says:

    Delusional stuff. The new Troppo?

  6. paul frijters says:

    Lt Fred and Jerry,

    the issue of side-effects of these vaccines is an area fraught with danger that I have in my book largely stayed away from, but I do follow the issue. Let me say something about it here. As a preamble, let me mention that Sweden just suspended its offering of vaccines for those below 30 because of their concerns, so Jerry is not alone in his concerns. (follow Martin Kulldorff if you want to see the published papers on this. He is pretty good on this, as is swprs.org: see https://swprs.org/covid-vaccine-adverse-events/).

    A key problem with the statistics is that the official systems for measuring side-effects makes it very difficult to get them recognised as such. That is not due to covid, but is an aspect of how it has been set up for a long time. Essentially its a reversal of proof system (‘prove to us this is a side-effect of the vaccine or medicine rather than something else’). Just think of the steps needed to get someone who died at home recognised as a side-effect victim (look up the steps!). One main historical reason for that way of setting up the measurement of side-effects was to prevent embarrassment for the medical authorities who authorised a new medicine or vaccine. As a result, undercounting of side-effects can be anything from a factor of 1 to a 100.

    You of course also have the entirely self-reported forms of side-effects. The US has such a system and it has about 15,000 reported cases of deaths due to side-effects (see that swprs article). If you take the results of that system as the truth, vaccines for anyone below 50 look very dicey indeed (or even much older than that).

    So both official and completely self-reported has its problems. I dont really trust either.

    Where then to look for the better data? One source of better data are the trials underlying the vaccines themselves: they follow up the groups they gave a vaccine or not. Perhaps unfortunately for the issue at hand, they didnt have huge groups of young people (below 44) in them because they would then not have been able to talk about preventing hospitalisation and death (which are in the older groups), so they were not really set up for side-effect measurements among the young, but that data does exist and will be (as I understand it) updated. You might want to have a look, though there are reporting issues even with that data (for instance because the unvaxed got vaxed later). So I don’t think that’s the best data either but its relatively clean.

    What I myself trust most on this issue is the age-excess-death graphs from Europe (https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps see the ones by age range, particularly the 15-44 and above 45 graphs). Cause of death might be poorly recorded, but death and age are recorded rather well. These graphs give me a handle on what ballpark I should be thinking of. By and large, those age-graphs (relating to over 350 million people) show you the effect of vaccinations, covid, and health neglect combined, so the skill in reading them is to reasonably untangle those three, and then combine them with what we know of covid waves and vaccination waves.

    If you bare in mind that the vaccinations of the over 65 took place roughly after week 8 of 2021, you see a clear reduction in the excess deaths for that age group. Indeed, there is so much reduction in the over 75s and especially the over 85s that you have to merit the vaccines for that. So I have no hesitation in recommending these vaccines for the vulnerable elderly. Note also the vertical axis of these graphs: the number of over 65s dying are far higher per week than the numbers below 65 (its a factor of 100:1 so there is also no question as to whether these vaccines are saving years of life or not).

    Then the group where things are in the balance: the group between 15-44. Note that the vaccine rollout between the age of 15-44 was after about week 20 as they were not first in line but last. So in that period for that age group you see an unusually rapid rise in the number of excess deaths, not mirrored in any of the previous 2 years (or indeed years before that) for that age group. That does suggest to me they are picking up side-effect deaths. Yet, how many? Comparing to the previous increases, the rapid rise between week 25 and 35 suggest about 1,000 extra deaths is the ballpark we should be thinking of. Might be less, might be more, but no more than 2,000 and 1,000 seems about right. Thats a 1,000 deaths on something like 100 million vaccinated people in that age group. So 10 side-effect deaths per million is my best bet for that group. We need to put that into context. The number in Europe who have been counted to die of covid is now closer to 2,000 per million. In China its 3 per million. Yet, those country number are driven by the vulnerable elderly. For the 15-44 group, 10 per million is indeed also the ballpark risk of covid-death in Europe (as you can gleam in the graph bit). So the two ballpark figures (risks of covid and risks of vaccines) are the same.

    Since these risks are close together I dare not say which one is bigger. In such a case, other factors do come to the fore: the non-deaths risks of both vaccine and covid in this age range, the externality issue, the future risks of booster shots versus natural immunity, etc. I have discussed that elsewhere and dont want to say more here than that one should not poo-poo them too easily. A big problem has been that officialdom has exuded confidence about things they knew very little about and constantly had to change tack (think aerosols or masks!), which means people are quite right to question everything officialdom is saying this time round. They have earned a lot of distrust.

    As to the general situation in Melbourne right now, I hardly have words. I only hope it doesn’t get even worse (and people I know who live there have written to me asking if they should emigrate for the sake of their families, so concerned are they at what they are witnessing there daily). Its a city with two realities wherein each side thinks the other insane.

    • Lt.Fred says:

      It’s slightly difficult to take your view seriously when it requires a huge conspiracy by scores of health departments around the world, for which there is no evidence when the only sources cited are an anoymously-edited German website which favourably quotes Andrew goddamn Wakefield among other literal criminal frauds, and one a single Swedish Doctor who believes the vaccines are safe!

      Claims like “Sweden just suspended its offering of vaccines for those below 30 because of their concerns (which are assumed to be reasonable, and due to side-effects)” or “official systems for measuring side-effects makes it very difficult to get [side effects] recognised as such” because the system is essentially designed not to pick up failures, are simply plain assertions, without any evidence at all behind them. The latter also ignores the vaccines and other drugs that have been picked up by the TGA system! It also ignores the EXTREME attitude of conservatism ATAGI and others have adopted with regard to the vaccines.

      There is no evidence for this:

      “undercounting of side-effects can be anything from a factor of 1 to a 100.”

      Some claims are outright lies. For instance, that there have been some 15,000 self-reported deaths from side-effects as a result of vaccines. Many of them are car accidents and shooting or fall victims and longstanding cancer patients succumbing to unrelated diseases. After all “FDA requires healthcare providers to report any death after COVID-19 vaccination to VAERS, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause.” https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-vaers-12000-idUSL1N2P21DB

      In lieu of some evidence that the coronavirus vaccine somehow makes it more likely for a person to die of murder – lots of people die every day, and population stats show that the ones who just got the jab are no more likely to do so than the ones who didn’t – I think I’ll take the data collated by the world’s scientific community at face value. Even with your own bolted-on population-level correlation, you make no effort to prove the people who are dying are vaccinated.


      This is just wall-to-wall garbage, at the level of Kennedy conspiracy theorising. Vaccines don’t make you more likely to get murdered or die in a car accident. Vaccines don’t create some imaginary invisible health problem nobody’s noticed. Vaccines don’t kill people at all, any more than any drug does. The reason why you have to cite Wakefield-adjascent propaganda to defend this claim is because nobody serious takes it seriously because it’s not true.

      • paul frijters says:

        and we’ve left the world of polite conversation! So I will stop replying to you.

        • Lt.Fred says:

          Such commitment! Absolute collapse at the first sign of pressure! I find it quite amusing to be accused of impoliteness by someone who calls mainstream medical institutions Stalinist panic-mongers on the regular for pointing out that you have no clothes.

        • KT2 says:

          Paul’s go to… just for his tribe though. Haven’t you accused just about everyone lying Paul? Oh, just not your tribe. In your head it is ok, in 3lite language, ti accuse, misrepresentat, exagerate. All fair, but inlt in MY war.

    • Jerry Roberts says:

      Thanks Paul for going to all that trouble. I had noticed that you and Nicholas focus more on lock-downs and masks than vaccine safety. You and Nicholas in particular may recall the reflections on the recession we had to have by John Button, one of the brighter politicians of that era. He said the government should have listened to more anecdotal evidence. People on salaries don’t notice recessions because their incomes don’t change, unlike the self-employed.

      Perhaps influenced by newspaper training, I put store in the credibility of sources. In the early days of the Covid story my sources were you and Sunetra Gupta. The name of Luc Montagnier appears in my diary of April 2020. Now the big names are those learned gentlemen McCullough, Malone and Vanden Bossche.

      It is easy to see where the trolls are coming from with their comical Orwellian title of fact checkers. Nor is it hard to see who is making the big bucks from the Covid racket. More difficult to discern is the big picture. As a political type down under I naturally wonder why Australia is the birthplace and testing ground of 21st century fascism.

      At first I looked back to D.H. Lawrence and his Australian novel, Kangaroo. Now I’m thinking it is more a matter of geography than the character of the people. As the funeral director noted, Australia is a big place but there is nowhere to go. We can’t slip over the border into Switzerland. We can’t retreat to the mountains or the forests to organise resistance to Hitler, Mussolini and Franco.

      Not that I’m saying our politicians have Hitler’s talent, Mussolini’s brains and Franco’s stamina. They don’t need them with useless political parties, police and army under the thumb, lazy lawyers, frightened doctors, compliant populations and complicit mass media who, after 18 months, are yet to interview a single person who knows what he is talking about on the subject of Covid-19.

      I think you are under-estimating the problem, Paul, but keep on it. The vaccines have something in common with masks and lock-downs. They have nothing to do with public health. This is about centralised political, economic and social control and even that is looking at the Covid project through rose-coloured spectacles.

  7. Nicholas Gruen says:

    I’ve just removed a comment from Jerry Roberts which concluded thus:

    The vaccines have something in common with masks and lock-downs. They have nothing to do with public health. This is about centralised political, economic and social control and even that is looking at the Covid project through rose-coloured spectacles.

    It’s perfectly civil. I could get all pompous about it and say that it’s dangerous, but the problem with that argument is that while that view in the community is dangerous, its appearing on Troppo is harmless to our health. I just want Jerry to take his more extreme ideas somewhere else. Jerry is probably a nice fellow, but I’d rather he take his views on COVID elsewhere.

    Perhaps he has views on carpentry or sharks or something, which could be of interest, but his days of posting the kind of nonsense I extracted above here are numbered I’m afraid.

    • paul frijters says:

      How do you know it to be untrue, Nicholas?

      Was the Vietnam war in its later stages about keeping Australia safe? Was the Afghanistan war in its later stages about keeping Australia safe? Was the Tampa crisis about keeping Australia safe? Surely your answer to those questions is ‘no’, whilst whole hordes of officials will have said something different at those times, including large majorities of the population. So you have been lied to by governments and some of its agencies in the past. How do you know you are not being lied to now?

      Within my view of what is going on, Jerry is polite and is not saying anything extreme. I interpret his statement as ‘by now some governments are not pushing any of these things because they care for public health’. I think its ok to ask him to explain himself if you want to know what he has in mind, but if the motivations of governments for highly invasive policies cannot be questioned and politely discussed on Troppo, then what is the point of this site?

      Anyhow, I will consider myself censored from Troppo too whilst these kind of statements are censored.

      Don’t feel too bad about it, the timing is great. My new job is eating more time of me, Gigi Foster is getting far more attention within Oz for the same message anyway, several others (like Cameron Murray) are now pushing these things on their own on much more popular sites in Oz, and I have my hands full with doing pieces and videos for a Dutch group that gets far more attention and is hence better suited for such thing at this moment in time (see https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqk4Y-sc7Dc&t=182s ).

      I will miss not having an immediate venue to share thoughts on whatever topic caught my fancy where the new posts would then add to a 10-year vault of other topics, but all good things must come to an end.

      Best of luck with the site, my friend. Try not to rampage too much.

      • Jerry Roberts says:

        I hate to be the cause of a ruptured relationship, Paul. Don’t do that to me. We need you and that last paragraph quoted by Nicholas was on the hot side, although I stand by it. We should have had a widely publicised out-patient protocol in place a year ago. I would struggle to rank in order what worries me most about the Covid project but near the top of the list is the abandonment of the Nuremberg rule of informed consent that is by definition over-ruled by mandatory vaccination. Come to think of it, I’m seeing too much of that mandatory word around the place.

  8. Nicholas Gruen says:

    “The vaccines … have nothing to do with public health”.

    You want to defend that statement do you?

    • Jerry Roberts says:

      It is the conclusion of Reiner Fuellmich after a hundred interviews with leading authorities on corona-ausschuss.de. I managed to find an English version of the Session 72 on YouTube. If you want to watch just one, you should be able to find the interview with Paul Alexander, a Canadian scientist who was inside the Trump White House at the time of the rift with the WHO. The larger issue of the long-term danger of mass vaccination during pandemic is explained at length in a conversation between Robert Malone and Geert Vanden Bossche. Before Event 201 and Covid 19 we all knew two things: You don’t do vaccines for corona viruses because they don’t work and you don’t conduct mass vaccination campaigns during pandemics. We are breaking all the rules.

      • Andrew Messenger says:

        Let’s go through the list again!

        So you’ve got, in total:

        A career antivaxxer in Fuellmich.

        A Trump-appointing screaming lunatic in Alexander (quote: ‘We want them infected’!). He also deliberately undermined the drug development process to push an unproven treatment that proved a failure, with dealy results.

        Just a sad, sad man in Malone. A liar, wrecking his credibility to, again, push garbage.

        Another complete weirdo in Bossche, who reckons he’s found the panacea for all ills! (He has not)

        The reason why you’re citing the professional anti-vaxx industry as evidence is because there is nothing there. There is no case to be made except on the basis of fraud and frauds.

        • Jerry Roberts says:

          Hi Andrew. So pleased to see you back in print. Here is an example of anecdotal evidence quoted from the 9 October edition of The Spectator, a centre-right weekly, reported by Rebecca Weisser:

          “Jessica Berg Wilson was a 37-year-old who was coerced into vaccination to which she passionately objected by a mandate on mothers helping at school. When it triggered fatal thrombotic thrombocytogepenia. Twitter had the gall to “fact-check” her obituary and deem it “misleading.” In the face of intense backlash, it removed the tag days later. It’s cold comfort for her heart-broken husband. He just wants the people setting the mandates to listen to his story.”

          Who helps the vaccine victims, Andrew, apart from the funeral director of Milton Keynes? Not economists looking at statistics after the event.

          • Andrew Messenger says:

            One of an enormous four people who’ve died of the JJ vaccine, a record much much safer than aspirin. And of course she may have died if she didn’t get the vaccine, like the mere 700,000 Americans who have done so.

            I’d be happy for the state to set up some kind of compensation system for victims of vaccines (and other drugs which have the same effects, like aspirin). All drugs have side effects, most of them have deadly side-effects. That’s life. The condition though, should be that the anti-vaxx industry should have to pay the same compensation to every unvaccinated person who dies of a disease that would have been prevented had they been innoculated against it. Be a few billion at this point you’d think.

  9. Jerry Roberts says:

    Nicholas does have a point and he is by no means the first to make it. When we criticise the vaccines and the politics and propaganda it can sound like we are down-playing the danger of the virus. I was commenting on Covid 19 on Pearls and Irritations before John Menadue dropped the comments section. This was pre-vaccine. Paul first wrote on this subject well before vaccines. I am back where I started in my early comment to one of Paul’s first posts on Club Troppo. I remain more worried about the police State than I am about the virus. American journalist Mike Whitney is more blunt in his style than I and Paul Craig Roberts blasts away on this subject every day, sometimes twice a day. They provide links by the dozen for those unimpressed by the official story from Biden, Fauci etc.

  10. Nicholas Gruen says:

    Thanks Jerry

    My own views might suggest to you that I’m not worried about a police state. I do think that that’s a rather dramatic way to put it, but count me among the most concerned about the fact that our voters care as little as they do for the basic building blocks of their democracy — free speech, the rule of law, manners of civil moderation. I’d even add ‘middle class respectability’ as a building block of democracy. It was Schumpeter’s view, and I agree with him, that democracy was not rule by the people but rule by an elite with factions of the elite competing for the consent of the governed.

    That led him to argue that democracy was finished if the elite lost their basic taste for the national project and their taste for the basic ideals of democracy. Once a politician refers to himself with pride as John Pork-Barilaro and the head of government appears to purr with approval, then that’s over.

    So I see that kind of thing — and the contempt for these norms by the current Federal Government — as far more concerning to our civil liberties in the long run than the ways state power is being used to curtail activity on grounds that are strictly reconcilable with J. S. Mill. (I’m referring to the kinds of actions taken [or most of them — I’d exclude the ban on citizens leaving the country]. But I’m speaking in principle, not about whether specific actions are well judged or not. The idea that a lockdown is, inherently contrary to our rights is poppycock and I think before he departed, Paul actually accepted that at some case fatality rate lockdowns may be justified.)

    In any event, breaking down all those norms are the basic ground work for a police state, or for some phase transition from democracy as we knew it in the 20th-century. As I’ve argued elsewhere, I’m one of the few people — and the only one I know of who has at least some track record of trying to take measures to entrench the rule of law on the presumption that the target for such action is not the way the laws are being used now, but how they could be used by someone worse in the future.

  11. KT2 says:

    Paul, it is you who says” “Australia should remain in alliance with the bully”
    Posted on May 27, 2019 by Paul Frijters

    PF says, after one paragraph removed; “Best of luck with the site, my friend. Try not to rampage too much.”

    How Ironic from Paul “Try not to rampage too much”.

    As they say, birds of a feather…

    Says it all really. You need a bully or a bully pulpit Paul. When you feel the heat or perceive a threat you run. Others will always use you.

    I understand you don’t realise this feature of your persona.

    “Australia should remain in alliance with the bully”
    Posted on May 27, 2019 by Paul Frijters

    Read that everyone. Remain, in alliance with the bully. Go team Paul.

    I’ve waited all this time to post this back at you Paul, as I believe you are both personally weak and both a bully and in need of a bully. 

    And a dog whistled death threat you made to me. Nice on Paul. 

    “paul frijters says:
    June 4, 2019 at 4:00 pm

    “and, most important of all

    – angry commentators.

    although, to be fair, the bully might shoot some of those for us.”…


    NG, if you have an urge to delete this, debate first. Ill have screen shots for the LSE board and future hearings.

    Paul, if you reply, you are weak.

    Best of luck with the site, my friend. Try not to rampage too much.

    • Nicholas Gruen says:


      I’d prefer you to make what constructive comments you can. Paul and I remain friends and juxtaposing two things Paul has said as if to suggest that he’s a hypocrite doesn’t contribute much — just puts things through the mixmaster of misunderstanding.

      Paul is a sincere, extremely knowledgeable and well educated and principled person. I’ve thought throughout this — or at least for most of it that Paul was doing us a service arguing the case he was. I wish he had a better developed sense of the possibility that he might be wrong, but there you go.

      We’ve had this out — in public and in private chats and correspondence.

  12. KT2 says:

    The 300 angry bears. But don’t worry all, I’ll be protesting after pandemic for relaxation of stringent laws.

    “Melbourne is not a city in revolt. The truth is far more incredible (and far more boring)

    “Our national media has done an appalling job of conveying what life is like here to the rest of the country. And it’s making a difficult situation even harder. It’s making sane people feel more alone, more unhinged, more depressed.

    “The real story here is the superhuman humanity, the extraordinary ordinariness, and just how remarkable the otherwise unremarkable amongst us are being.

    “On TV, we’re a city in revolt. In reality –a reality we’re all seeing with our own eyes – we’re a city of 5 million extremely ordinary, extremely worn out people, suffering a trauma people not here willnever understand, basically just saying, “Yeah alright, this is shit, can we have takeaway again this week?” 

    “That’s it.”…

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