I feel a deep urge to vent my spleen. Despite being a babyboomer whose personal tastes in rock/pop music coincide to some extent with the voters in the Normblog poll that Sophie Masson blogged about immediately below, I find myself getting mightily irritated by the extraordinary "oldies but goldies" focus of Norm Geras' readers' top 100 list. As I rather sourly commented:
It resembles a playlist from one of those 60s/70s "golden hits" nostalgia radio stations. There's almost nothing from the last decade, and very little from the decade before that. Did good pop songs really stop being made in the early 1980s, or did Norm's readers' tastes just start to ossify then?
But rather than just bitch about it, I've decided to take the bit between the teeth and run a poll of my own. I'm now taking nominations for readers' Top 20 pop/rock list of the last 20 years. That is, all your nominations must have been released for the first time in 1985 or later. So that pretty much leaves out the Rolling Stones, Beatles, Bob Dylan, Eagles and most of the others who dominated Norm's list. Of course, Dylan and the Strolling Bones continued releasing albums after 1985, but I'd be fairly surprised if anyone nominated anything they've done in that time.
Please nominate only your top 3 10 song choices in the comment box, otherwise it's probably going to be too hard to collate and weight your votes. Also note that although I'm calling it a pop/rock poll, that includes rap, hip hop, house etc. Moreover, given that some of these genres commonly involve remixes containing sampled riffs from older works, the fact that samples in a remix may have been released in their original form before 1985 doesn't disqualify a song from being nominated. On the other hand, mere cover versions of older songs (e.g. that appalling version of "Come on Aussie come on" by the turkey from Australian Idol, if anyone had the audacity to nominate it) are a no no.
Update - midstream rule change - Perusal of nominations so far shows there's only one song with more than a single vote (Smells Like Teen Spirit - Nirvana, with 3). If it carries on like this, it's going to be impossible to compile a Top Twenty ranking because we'll end up with about a zillion songs each with a single vote. It occurs to me that it might actually work better if I allow/encourage readers to nominate up to 10 song selections (not just 3). Anyone who has already voted can feel free to nominate another 7. Moreover, I'll treat every nomination as having equal weight i.e. I won't give them different weighting depending on their ranking/order within your nomination, I'll simply count up the total number of votes for a particular song.
Further update - Another perusal shows that there are very few songs so far nominated that are post-1995. No doubt (like Norm's blog) it's a reflection of the reader demographic, but again I severely doubt that good pop/rock songs stopped being written and released a decade ago. I'm not going to run a separate contest, but I think I'll publish a separate Top 10 Songs of the Last Decade list, so readers might want to focus especially on that period. It probably means that you'll have to embrace the possibility that rap, hip hop etc can actually be good, a leap that some may find difficult.
Smells like teen spirit - Nirvana
DOh, sorry, didn't read the instructions...
Smells Like Teen Spirit - Nirvana
Pump up the Volume - MARRS
Coffee and TV - Blur (because I can)
Radiohead - Fake Plastic Trees
Mercury Rev - Goddess on a Highway
Spain - Untitled #1
I excluded Hunters and Collectors - Talking to a Stranger, as i think it might be over 20 years now.
" but I'd be fairly surprised if anyone nominated anything they've done in that time."
Tempt not the Dylan Tragic.
1) I'll Remember You - Bob Dylan - Empire Burlesque 1985.
2) Gouge Away - The Pixies - Doolittle 1989
3) A King At Night - Bonnie Prince Billy - 2002
Red Hot Chilli Peppers - Under the Bridge Beastie Boys - Sabotage Beck - Where It's At
Three late eighties wonders:
There is a light that never goes out - The Smiths.
Schizophrenia - Sonic Youth.
Gigantic - The Pixies.
Teen Spirit- Nirvana One- U2 Killing in the name of- Rage against the machine
Three is a very small number for each person to nominate. I could easily suggest 10 or even 20 that I'd rate approximately equally (depending on my mood). Pop music is a bit like that: there's kind of a ceiling to just how good a pop song can be.
Anywho, here's three:
Smells Like Teen Spirit - Nirvana
Don't Dream it's Over - Crowded House
Where the Streets Have No Name - U2
I really wanted to say Cyndi Lauper's "Time After Time", but I googled it and it was released in 1984.
Now Top Three:
'No Way Out' by Love of Diagrams (love this song)
'Forget Her' by Jeff Buckley
'Hey Ya' by Outkast
Then Top Three:
'Sympathy for The Devil'
'Voodoo Chile'
'Like a Rolling Stone'
I really want to put another 20 in my top three but I'm tangled up in few.
With a Lovely Gal Top Three:
'Heaven' by the Rolling Stones
'Unforgettable' by Nat King Cole
'Laura' by Frank Sinatra
Good idea, Ken. Here;s mine: It's a Mad, Mad World--Tears for Fears Hallelujah--Jeff Buckley Paranoid android--Radiohead
The Ship Song - Nick Cave
Easy Like a Sunday Morning - Faith No More
If I saw you in heavan - Eric Clapton
I think what distinguishes these from others like RadioHead's Paranoid Android, is that these are are beautifully crafted popular songs (as per the recent BBC series) as opposed to brilliant but ultimately completely tricked up soundscapes. There is a difference, and I think it matters in this context.
I could happily list 3 Dylan songs from post 85, but I'll content myself with one.
Series of Dreams - Bob Dylan (recorded in 89 for Oh Mercy, released in 91 on The Bootleg Series Volumes 1-3)
There She Goes My Beautiful World - Nick Cave
Chocolate Jesus - Tom Waits
Never challenge a Dylan fan, Ken:
1) High Water - Bob Dylan (2001)
2) Love Sick- Bob Dylan (1997)
3) Standing in the Doorway - Bob Dylan (1997)
Bizarre Love Triangle - New Order In the Valley - Midnight Oil Last Goodbye - Jeff Buckley
Hi Rex
Easy like Sunday Morning will not pass the scrutineers. It is a cover song - originally recored (and written?) by Lionel Ritchie in the seventies.
I feel loved - Depeche Mode (2001) What you waiting for - Gwen Stefani (2004) Wade in the water - Eva Cassidy (1997)
1) 'Locomotion' (K. Minogue) 2) 'Achy Breaky Heart' (B.R. Cyrus) 3) 'Wannabe' (Spice Girls)
Chris, you're disqualified.
1) 'Eye of the Tiger' (Survivor) 2) 'Boney Moroney' (Hush) 3) 'Bye Bye Baby' (Bay City Rollers) 4) 'It's Not Unusual' (T. Jones)
Chris you omitted
Ice, Ice Baby - Vanilla Ice
Can't Touch This - M. C. Hammer
Barbie Girl - can't remember who did this crap
Now I'm sure this is what is being played at Guantunamo Bay as we speak.
You're a rare genius, Homer. Your first choice was released in 1982, your second and third in 1975 and the fourth one in 1965. You're also disqualified.
The Barbie song was by Aqua, and I quite liked it personally. You're also disqualified Stephen.
In Homer's case, I'm really not sure whether he's joking a la CS (you were joking Chris? right?)or not.
My current list (but it'd change hourly)
"Slip Inside This House" - Primal Scream
"The Storm" - World of Twist
"This Is Hardcore" - Pulp
"No Aphrodisiac" - The Whitlams "Nothing Compares" - Sinead O'Connor "I'm Too Sexy" - whatever those pommy wankers called themselves (trusting their rip-off from "3rd Stone from the Sun" wont disqualify me - if, so any of 10 from Crowded House, say "4 Seasons in 1 Day")
Right Said Fred?
Smiths - There is a Light That Never Goes Out Nirvana - Smells Like Teen Spirit Radiohead - No Surprises
Enjoy the Silence - Depeche Mode
How soon is Now - The Smiths
Motorcycle Emptiness - Manic Street Preachers
That's a difficult one because it changes depending on my mood, and brother do I change my mood.
Ummm, Bob Dylan - It Ain't Me, Babe.
Joni Mitchell - I Had a King
Leonard Cohen - Famous Blue Raincoat
Arrggh, I am a bloody hippy.
Darlene
You're also a hippy who doesn't read the rules (it's probably part of the syndrome). It Ain't Me, Babe was released in 1964; I Had a King in 1967 and Famous Blue Raincoat in 1971. You're disqualified. (I feel a bit like Donald Trump).
Ten you say? Here goes:
There is a light that never goes out - Smiths
Cannonball - Breeders
This is Hardcore - Pulp
Bizarre Love Triangle - New Order
Birthday - Sugarcubes
24 Hour Party People - Happy Mondays
She Bangs the Drums - Stone Roses
Since I left you - Avalanches
Last night - Strokes
Babies - Pulp
My list has been deemed totally objective by a closed inquiry chaired by our kitten. She knows her stuff.
Husker Du
Ken, my extra modern seven:
4. 'Close to Me' (The Cure :)
5. 'Continental Drift' (Rolling Stones)
6. 'Teen Spirit' (Nirvana)
7. 'One' (U2)
8. 'Real Thing' (U2)
9. 'My Happiness' (Powderfinger)
10. That Rocket Science song (film clip on beach) ???
Actually Ken is making it too easy for us by setting the limit at 1985. I am enrolling students born in 1987. The Smiths and New Order are not modern groups.
He was well within his rights to set the limit for post 2000.
Blackfella/ White Fella - the Warumpi Band There She Goes - The LA's Bell Bottoms - John Spencer Blues Explosion Smells Like Teen Spirit - Nirvana Wave of Mutilation - The Pixies How Soon is Now - The Smiths Bring the Noise - Public Enemy In The Name of the Father - Black Grape From Her to Eternity - Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds Kool Thing - Sonic Youth Cinnamon - Piggies
Currency, you're a disgrace.
Might have to get back on this one, but have to immediately come in behind Rex on:
Series of Dreams - Dylan ('89)
I guess while I'm here I could also add:
Every Grain of Sand (Dylan) - Emmylou Harris version ('95)
My Back Pages (Dylan) - Dylan, McQuinn, Petty, Young, Clapton, Harrison verion ('93)
Desolation Row - Dylan unplugged version ('95)
Blind Willie McTell - Dylan recorded it in '80 but not released until '91
And now, while I was typing that, I've thought of:
Running Too Deep - Keith Richards ('92)
Brand New Car - Rolling Stones ('94)
Heck, seeing as I can have 10:
Me and the Eagle - Steve Earle ('98)
Cooksferry Queen - Richard Thompson ('99)
Daring Night - Van Morrison ('89) (for Zoe)
Bugger it, if I could have had 12, I would have also listed:
Walk On - U2 ('00)
Tear Stained Eye - Son Volt ('95)
Lose Yourself - Eminem (2002) Where It's At - Beck (1996) Killing In The Name - Rage Against The Machine (1993) Smells Like Teen Spirit - Nirvana (1991) Enter Sandman - Metallica (1991) Fairytale Of New York - The Pogues (1987) I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For - U2 (1987) Sweet Child o'Mine - Guns 'N' Roses (1897) Papa Don't Preach - Madonna (1986) Throw Your Arms Around Me - Hunters And Collectors (1985)
Chris
They're devious bastards, those RWDBs. Consider yourself reinstated (and good choices too)!
My $0.02
Hallelujah - Jeff Buckley
Ship Song - Nick Cave
Don't Dream It's Over - Crowded House
Great Southern Land - Icehouse
All I Want Is You - U2
Better Man - John Butler Trio
Treaty - Yothu Yindi
Glory Box - Portishead
Two Step - Dave Matthews Band
Buy Me A Pony - Spiderbait
Death of the European - The Three Johns (1985)
Memphis, Egypt - Mekons (1989)
That's How Grateful We Are - Chumbawamba (1990)
My Sister's Tiny Hands - Handsome Family (1998)
I Wish I Was the Moon - Neko Case (2002)
See Willy Fly By - Waco Brothers (1997)
War on War - Wilco (2002)
There is a Light - The Smiths
Fairytale of New York - Pogues
er...er...er....
Bittersweet Symphony - The Verve Cornflake Girl - Tori Amos Grace - Jeff Buckley Lightning Crashes - Live Mohammed - Dandy Warhols Orange Crush - REM Paranoid Android - Radiohead Parklife - Blur True Faith - New Order Truly - Something for Kate
When do we get to have a good bitch about others choices? Itchy fingers.
and scratch "How Soon is Now" and replace with "This Charming Man" disregard all further attempts to change my list by me.
Pop? 1984? I think that's about the time I stopped listening to it.
What's my Scene: Hoodoo Gurus.
Dont Dream its Over: Crowded House
(give us a break here I know(Ken),I checked, it was released in 1987)
The Weeping Song- Nick Cave.
Mad World (Donnie Darko version) If you count me out on Crowded House.
U2 : One (not sure if that makes it either)
The Hoodoo Gurus write shit-hot 'pop' (I reckon) Or did - or something. I think I'm too old for this.
"There Is A Light And It Never Goes Out" - The Smiths (IMO, "This Charming Man" and "How soon is now" are 1983/4.) "Creep" Radiohead "Come As You Are" Nirvana "Common People" (Pulp or Shatner -- the latter if the performer matters, not the song) "Losing My Religion" REM "Do You Realize?" The Flaming Lips "Cruisers Creek" The Fall
Pulp - Common People
Pixies - Monkey Gone to Heaven
Stone Roses - She Bangs the Drums
The Wedding Present - Kennedy
Sugarcubes - Birthday
Radiohead - Fake Plastic Trees
Massive Attack - Unfinished Sympathy
REM - Bad Day
PJ Harvey - To Bring You My Love
Nick Cave - God is in the House
I could come up with more... and I could come up with more obscure tracks, but that would overlap with my own blogging efforts :)
Maybe not the ten "best" songs, but certainly ten for which I have very fond memories.
Pearl Jam -- Black
Stone Temple Pilots -- Plush
Nirvana -- Smells Like Teen Spirit
The Strokes -- The Modern Age
Rage Against the Machine -- Killing in the Name
Ween -- Voodoo Lady
You Am I -- Damage
Frenzal Rhomb -- Punch in the Face
Radiohead -- Paranoid Android
...and my "plug your mate's band" pick:
Fascist Fair Go Party -- Disco Fascism
Well, if we are allowed the other seven...
4. Throw your arms around me - Hunters and Collectors
5. The Christmas Song - Dave Matthews Band
6. Wicked Game - Chris Isaac
7. Under the milky way - The church
8. Excuse me Mister - Ben Harper
9. Kick - INXS
10. Take on Me - Aha (Ok, this is tragic, but totally non negotiable)
Some suggestions from the past few years (had to scan the Triple J hottest 100 to remind myself):
Take me out - Franz Ferdinand
Coin-operated boy - The Dresden Dolls
No One Knows - Queens of the Stone Age
Stan - Eminem
Hey Ya - Outkast
What You Waitin For - Gwen Stefani
Seven Nation Army - The White Stripes
Hello - The Cat Empire
The Rockefeller Skank - Fatboy Slim
Amongst dozens of other excellent pop songs. Current favourite "undergraduate humor joke pop song" is "Lachlan" by "Your Wedding Night", at least for the next five minutes. They haven't stopped making the stuff just because you've collectively stopped listening...
Oh, and Michael Franti and Spearhead live are an experience not to be missed, even if the more conservative amongst you will probably puke at the politics.
Christ, would I like to unload on some of those choices? Yes. Yes I would. But I'm too polite for that.
A Top 10 for today.
New Mistake - Jellyfish (1993)
Hotel Illness - The Black Crowes (1992)
Let's Get Killed - David Holmes (1997)
High On A Hilltop - Nick Lowe (1998)
Wayfarin' Stranger - Spearhead (1997)
Monkey With A Gun - The Yayhoos (2001)
Now It's On - Grandaddy (2004)
White City Fighting - Peter Townshend (1985)
Swallowed By The Cracks - David & David (1986)
Spring Rain - The Go-Betweens (1985)
Here's my list (was '85 really that long ago? I must be older than I thought!) 1. Shellshock - New Order 2. There is a Light - The Smiths (would've preferred Hand in Glove, but that was too early) 3. Like a Prayer - Madonna 4. Pagan Poetry - Bjork 5. Hell is Round the Corner - Tricky 6. Garbage Man - Hole 7. Being Boring - Pet Shop Boys 8. Hit the North - The Fall 9. Salt Fare North Sea - Chumbawamba 10. Dirty Epic - Underworld
Ok, Ken - all post 1995 (most post 2000).
1. Beth Orton - "Touch Me with Your Love"
2. M. Ward - "Sad, Sad Song"
3. The White Stripes - "There's No Home For You Here"
4. Deborah Conway - "I Love You But"
5. Massive Attack - "Angel".
6. Autour de Lucie - "Immobile"
7. Beth Orton - "Devil Song"
8. Little Birdie - "Message to God"
9. Sia - "Drink to Get Drunk"
10. Beth Orton - "Stars All Seem to Weep"
(everyone knows I'm a Beth O fan!)
ps - they're not really my ten favourite songs but ten songs I've been listening to lately - and I'm too tired to do the whole sift through all the cds thing. Am I within the rules? I've tried to go with post 2000 stuff.
but they're all excellent songs nevertheless!
Maybe you should make another poll called "10 songs Mark has been listening to lately".
OK back to the original guidelines (...and I've changed my mind again,)
"Music Is My Radar" - Blur
"Requiem For A Dream" - Kronos Quartet/Clint Mansell
"The Weeping Song" - Britney Spears
I'm tempted to vote for 10 You Am I songs, but that would be overindulging.
You Am I- Tuesday
Powderfinger- Take Me In
Massive Attack- Unfinished Sympathy
Nick Cave & Bad Seeds- Hallelujah
Radiohead- Fake Plastic Trees
Portishead- Glory Box
Air- You Make It Easy
John Butler Trio- Pickapart
Jeff Buckley- Hallelujah
Tim Rogers & the Twin Set- I Left My Heart All Over the Place
Now I've heard your update remix, I can spread my ears a bit more.
Fool's Gold- The Stone Roses
Conscious Of My Conscience - Womack & Womack
La Femme D'Argent - Air
Hairy Trees - Goldfrapp
Welcome Back Victoria -Jesus Jones
Dear God - XTC
Common People - Blur
Portishead - Sour Times
I Feel Better Now - Stephen Cummings
To The End - Blur
Yes, I know, the last four entries above should have read:
Common People - Pulp
Sour Times - Portishead
Unfinished Sympathy - Massive Attack
To The End - Blur
there is a light that never goes out - the smiths common people - pulp suburbia - pet shop boys fairytale of new york - pogues girlfriend in a coma - the smiths never met a girl like you before - edwyn collins stan - eminem
1. There is a Light that Never Goes Out - The Smiths [*]
2. How to Disappear Completely - Radiohead
3. Bring The Noise (Public Enemy/Anthrax remix)
4. Born Slippy - Underworld
5. Master of Puppets - Metallica
6. Tupelo - Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds
7. Kerosene - Big Black
8. Tanz mit Laibach - Laibach
9. Crystal - New Order
10. Smaller and Smaller - Faith No More
I'm throwing in 11 (although it probably doesn't count):
11. On Her Majesty's Secret Service - Propellorheads. An old Bond theme remixed, and probably cheating.
2., 8. and 9. (and 11.) fall in the post 1995-demographic.
[*] 1 happens to be my favorite song as well. Looks like being the runaway winner so far.
Common People - Pulp I Wanna Be Your Joey Ramone - Sleater-Kinney Ana Ng - They Might Be Giants Passionate Kisses - Lucinda Williams Teenage Riot - Sonic Youth Right Here - Go-Betweens Everyday Is Like Sunday - Morrissey Summer Babe - Pavement Let Down - Radiohead Loser - Beck
Sorry, I am a twit. Although I hadn't realised any music was made in the last twenty years.
How about:
Sarah McLachlan - Fumbling Towards Ecstasy
Tori Amos - Smells Like Teen Spirit
Sinead O'Connor - Troy
'Sweet Dreams' - Eurythmics 'Dollar Bill Blues' - Townes Van Zandt 'One Tree Hill' - U2 'Smells Like Teen Spirit' - Nirvana 'Losing My Religion' - REM 'Fairytale Of New York' - The Pogues and Kirsty McColl 'Columbia' - Oasis 'Exit Music (For A Film)' - Radiohead 'My Oh My' - David Gray 'Ft Worth Blues' - Steve Earle
By This River - Brian Eno The Mercy Seat - cover by Johnny Cash Everybodies Got To Learn Sometime - Beck Say Yes - Elliot Smith Brickbat - Billy Bragg Stretch Out and Wait - The Smiths (1985) Your're Pretty Good Lookin' - White Stripes Short Skirt, Long Jacket - Cake Are You the One I've Been Waiting For? - Nick Cave Papa Was a Rodeo - Magnetic Fields
here's another 7 on top of the 3 I put in yesterday: John Butler Trio--Treat yo mama Jet--are you gonna be my girl? Cat Empire--Hello Red Hot Chilli Peppers--Californication Radiohead--The Bends Radiohead--Fake Plastic Trees Andrew York--Andecy
Disqualifying CS first choices was methinks, a very good idea. But I can't talk eh? Being so hopeless with names and numbers (but very good with feels) I wish I could've done better. Haven't heard of most of these, but given the fervour of commenting on this post, I'm certain that they're all great songs Some readers really know they're pop eh? I'm looking at you Yobbo. One day it'll be simple 'click' to hear them. Womack and Womack, they had a great song, something about a Dad's hat, it was a cover I think, I remember loving it.
Purple Sneakers - You Am I
Distant Sun - Crowded House
You Sound Like Louis Burdett - The Whitlams
Common People - Pulp
Laid - James
El Scorcho - Weezer
All I Want Is You - U2
Bizarre Love Triangle - New Order
Anything Anything (I'll Give You) - Dramarama
Damage - You Am I
Compiling this made me realise that I don't think I've really liked any new music since I left uni. Tragic.
Jeff Buckley - Hallelujah Crowded House - Don't Dream it's over U2 - One Smashing Pumpkins - 1979 Sinead O'Connor - Troy The Superjesus - Second Sun Concrete Blonde - Tomorrow, Wendy
My extra seven:
4. 'One' - Metallica
5. 'Beautiful Day' - U2
6. 'Creep' - Radiohead
7. 'Ana's Song' - Silverchair
8. 'Sweet Child 'O Mine' - Guns n Roses
9. 'Ship Song' - Nick Cave & Bad Seeds
10. 'Take Me On' - A-ha - Dan, you're not the only one!
If I were allowed 11, I'd stick in 'Lifting the Veil from the Braille' off the Dissociatives album, but I appreciate that would be an idiosyncratic choice. However, it would mean that I had a song less than 5 years old.
But then again, what would the kids know? Fuck 'em!
Christ allfookin' mighty, how alternative are you guys?!! How about "pop" music, as in "popular"? Honestly: The Smiths?
Here's my list, subject to change at any time, which will rightly be flamed by the cooler dudes on this blog:
Boys of Summer - Don Henley (1985)
Sweetest Taboo - Sade (1985)
Love Removal Machine - The Cult (1986)
This Corrosion - Sisters of Mercy (1987)
Shattered Dreams - Johnny Hates Jazz (1987)
Better the Devil You Know
ACDC - Thunderstruck Jon Bon Jovi - Blaze of glory Robert Palmer - Addicted to love Foreigner - I want to know what love is Red Hot Chilli Peppers - Californication Kim Wilde - You keep me hanging on The Proclaimers - Im gonna be 500 miles.... Eurythmics - Would I lie to you Queen - Bohemian Rhapsody Divinyls - I Touch Myself
1. Last Goodbye - Jeff Buckley 2. One Angry Dwarf and 200 Solemn Faces - Ben Folds Five 3. Glastonbury Song - Waterboys 4. God Give Me Strength - Elvis Costello & Burt Bacharach 5. PDA - Interpol 6. Somewhere Only We Know - Keane 7. There Is A Light That Never Goes Out - Smiths 8. Eastern Bloc - Thomas Dolby 9. Still Too Soon To Know - Elvis Costello 10. Homesick - Finn Brothers
'Hey Ya' by Outkast 'Song 2' Blur 'Honeymoon is Over' Cruel Sea 'Dumb Things' Paul Kelly 'Unsent Letter' Machine Gun Fellatio 'The ship song' Nick Cave 'Impression that I Get' Mighty Mighty Bosstones 'Real World' Kharma County 'Love this City' The Whitlams 'Man on the Moon' REM
Don
Queen's Bohemian Rhapsody was released in 1975 (on A Night At The Opera). But the others all seem OK in rules terms.
Do we really get another 7? If we do they'd be:
I Am A Cinematographer - Palace Brothers (94?)
Goner w/Souvenir - Richard Buckner (98)
In The Aeroplane Over The Sea - Neutral Milk Hotel (98)
Motorway To Roswell - The Pixies (92)
The Way - Bonnie Prince Billy (03)
Wrecking Ball - Gillian Welsh (?)
Beloved Woman - Papa M (02)
COVER ALERT!
James, thanks for picking me up on "Easy like a Sunday Morning" - I didn't know it was a cover.
Also note Jeff Buckley's Hallelujah, although a beautiful song is also a cover, and was published by Leonard Cohen in 1984 which completely knocks it out.
Fresh from the TSP 1000 (http://drivelwarehouse.com/tsp2/index.php?p=2811) (*plug*)
1 - DNA featuring Suzanne Vega - Tom's Diner (1990)
2 - TISM - Life Kills/Pus Of The Dead (1989)
3 - The Smiths - Paint A Vulgar Picture (1987)
4 - Stardust - Music Sounds Better With You (1997)
5 - The Smiths - How Soon Is Now? (1985)
6 - TISM - 40 Years - Then Death (1988)
7 - Oasis - Morning Glory (1995)
8 - Morrissey - The Last Of The Famous International Playboys (1989)
9 - Suede - Animal Nitrate (1993)
10 - TISM - Greg! The Stop Sign!! (1996)
My first 3 are up the top somewhere, filling out the 10...
The Mercy Seat - Nick Cave
London Still - The Waifs
Sweet Jane - Cowboy Junkies
High Water - Bob Dylan
Debaser - Pixies
Dirty Boulevarde - Lou Reed
Nothing Compares 2U - Sinead O'Connor
Ken, are you going to nominate your Top 10?
Although The Cowboy Junkies version is a ripping song, Sweet Jane's a cover from the Velvet's about 1970. Off of Loaded.
Additional entries to make up the ten.
I get knocked down (I get up again) - Chumbawumba
My island home - Christine Anu
Treaty - Yothu Yindi
Darling it Hurts - Paul Kelly
Unbelievable - EMF
Are you gonna be my girl - Jet
Charmless Man - Blur
Better be home soon - Crowded House
Sorry to be anally retentive, but the song isn't "I get knocked down (I get up again)" its actually called "Tubthumping"
Suffer little children - the Smiths (who were a goddam popular band Fyodor, and who wrote pop songs. Sheesh) Nancy - G Love & Special Sauce Schitzo - iota (freaking genius. go see him) I think I better give her a call - Gil Scot Heron Windowlicker - Aphex Twin La Femme d'argent - Air I was meant for Maggie Cassidy - Dave Graney & co Ricky - John Frusciante Pencil Skirt - Pulp She makes me wanna die - Tricky
1. To Here Knows When - My Bloody Valentine
2. Blue Thunder - Galaxie 500
3. How soon is Now - Smiths
4. Birthday - Sugarcubes
5. Safari - Breeders
6. Fake Plastic Trees - Radiohead
7. One - U2
8. Animal Nitrate - Suede
9. It's Not What You Know - New FADS
10. It's on Everything - Last Days of April
11. Enter Space Capsule - Gerling
12. Don't Look Back in Anger - Oasis
13. Vapour Trail - Ride
14. X - Bailter Space
15. Carolyn's Fingers - Cocteau Twins
I'm sure there are some gems I've missed.
Man I love these songs. Everybody who had anything do so with them should be showered with money.
SLEDGEHAMMER - Peter Gabriel (86) GIRLFRIEND - Matthew Sweet (91) 3AM ETERNAL - The KLF (91) SEXY MF - Prince (92) NEW MISTAKE - Jellyfish (93) DISTANT SUN - Crowded House (93) LOSER - Beck (96) THE DISTANCE - Cake (96) PASS THE VIBES - Definition of Sound (96) THE SCIENTIST - Coldplay (02)
Jellyfish? Now you're talking, Bruce!
Crowded House? You can shut up now.
Funny thing lists, ten minutes later and it will be different. Not in any order:
"Mr Dobalina" - Del the Funky Homosapien
"New Wave" - Common & Stereolab
"Look at Miss Ohio" - Gillian Welch
"I'm that Type of Nigga" - Pharcyde
"Spring Rain" - Go Betweens
"Makeshift Patriot" - Sage Francis
"Messenger Bird's Song" - Bright Eyes
"There is No Competition" - Dark Tower
"Mind Playing Tricks on Me" - Geto Boys
"Song for Randy Newman" - Chills
I nominate my list as being the best one.
I'll allow that fans of the keyboard will find it woefully guitarocentric but I like to think that I have given due to electricity, accoustic and the non partisan intelligent lyric.
I think it's impossible to make a decision about the "best" pop/rock songs of the last twenty years, because there are so many different styles fulfilling so many different needs. How do you compare Barbie Girl (a masterpiece of bubblegum europop) with Smells Like Teen Spirit (a masterpiece of grunge)?
So I've refined the list to what I consider to be the most perfect interpretations of the 3 minute pop song, the simplest, catchiest, most enjoyable expressions of pop music. Bugger meaning and passion - it's all about the beat and the melody.
Dumb Things - Paul Kelly, 1987
Minority - Green Day, 2000
She's Electric - Oasis, 1995
Get Off - Dandy Warhols, 2002
If I Could Talk I'd Tell You - The Lemonheads, 1996
Cosmic Girl - Jamiroquai, 1997
If I Can't Change Your Mind - Sugar, 1992
Alright - Supergrass, 1995
Are You Gonna Be My Girl - Jet, 2003
Pretty Fly (For A White Guy) - The Offspring, 1998
Of all of these, I'd vote "If I Can't Change Your Mind" Number 1. I don't particularly like Sugar, but they just somehow hit the pop music sweet spot with this one.
In no real order:
Drops of Jupiter Train
No Depression Uncle Tupelo
Keep me in your heart Warren Zevon
Car Wheels on a gravel road Lucinda Williams
Get ready for love Nick Cave
Prison grove Warren Zevon
Step in Step out Weddings Parties Anything
Beautifull Day U2
Pony Kasey Chambers
Memory lane Elliott Smith
How about an OZ Top Ten?
for today...
THE LAUGHING SONG 91
AFTER THE BALL 93
THE FATAL WEDDING 93
MY WILD IRISH ROSE 99
A BIRD IN A GILDED CAGE 00
ARKANSAW TRAVELER 01
THE MANSION OF ACHING HEARTS 02
THE PICTURE OF MY MOTHER ON THE WALL 00
IN MY MERRY OLDSMOBILE 05
oh... sorry, wrong century.
"MR. DOBALINA, MR. BOB DOBALINA" Love that song.
Zoe, you're right. The Smiths were way more popular than any other band you mentioned, you alterno-tragic. I bet you sip lattes and munch on tofu while pondering the connection between Morrissey's musical genius and his quiff!
"Pop", people, "Pop"!
Ah, I get 7 more! Including my original 3:
1 Teen Spirit- Nirvana
2 One- U2
3 Killing in the name of- Rage against the machine
4 Daughter- Pearl Jam
5 Berlin Chair- You Am I
6 Jesus Christ Pose- Soundgarden
7 American Dream- Jakatta
8 Raining Blood- Slayer
9 Fields of Gold- Eva Cassidy
10 Natural Blues- Moby
RE a comment up above- if something is a cover, I'd say it should go on the date of the version nominated. SOmething like Fields of Gold is totally different in the hands of Eva Cassidy versus Sting.
Martin
It's a respectable argument, but not overwhelming enough to change the rules in midstream again. There are covers and covers.
REM - Losing My Religion Radiohead - Karma Police (1997) My Bloody Valentine - Loveless (???? post-1985 anyhow) U2 - Where the Streets Have No Name (1987) Massive Attack - Unfinished Sympathy (1993-ish) The Cure - Lullaby Mazzy Star - Fade into You Johnny Cash - (covering) Hurt The Sleepy Jackson - Good Dancers (2003)
Scorn of the Women - Weddings Parties Anything Tojo - Hoodoo Gurus Everythings on Fire - Hunters and Collectors Miffy's Simplicity - Regurgitator Mean to me - Crowded House Life Kills - TISM Common People - Pulp Country Death Song - Violent Femmes Tricky Run - DMC Fathers Day - Weddings Parties Anything
Another seven
The Weeping Song - Nick Cave and the Back Seeds (80s)
Dream Brother - Jeff Buckley (mid-90s)
Spit on a Stranger - Pavement (late-90s)
The Whores Hustle and the Hustlers Whore - P.J. Harvey (2000)
Fade Into You - Mazzy Star (early 90s)
How Soon is Now - The Smiths (80s)
Muffin Man - Frank Zappa (early 90s)
Bedrock - For What You Dream Of Kym Mazelle - Was That All It Was Fatboy Slim - Praise You Leftfield - Song For Life Underworld
Mazzy Star Fade into you. Cowboy Junkies, Sweet Jane, Crush by the Cocteau Twins. Its all coming back. I have now also realised that 1987 qualifies. There ain't no accounting for it is there?
Ken- fair enough, but the only cover on my list, fields of gold, was written by Sting in 1992-93 I believe..
At the moment (but ONLY at the moment):
Sorted for E's and Wizz: Pulp
Oh My Sweet Carolina: Ryan Adams
Friday, I'm in Love: The Cure
Fairy Tale of New York: The Pogues and Kirsty MacColl
There She Goes: The La's
Give the Anarchist a Cigarette: Chumbawamba
Mr Jones and Me: Counting Crows
Waiting for the Great Leap Forward: Billy Bragg
Don't Look Back in Anger: Oasis
A Month of Sundays: Don Henley
Quick, quick, send it before I change my mind again.
Martin
I don't have a problem with anyone including covers in their list, as long as the original was released in 1985 or after. As far as I can see, Sting's (original?) version of Fields of Gold was released in 1993, and Eva Cassidy's cover in 2000. So you're welcome to include both in your list if you want.
10 "Best" Pop/Rock songs IMO in no particular order (as opposed to my favourites):
1. Oasis - Wonderwall (1995)
2. Metallica - Enter Sandman (1991)
3. Jet - Are You Gonna Be My Girl? (2003)
4. Eminem - Without Me (2002)
5. Blur - Song 2 (1997)
6. Outkast - Hey Ya (2003)
7. John Farnham - You're The Voice (1986)
8. Dire Straits - Money For Nothing (1985)
9. Robbie Williams - Rock DJ (2000)
10. Britney Spears - Baby One More Time (1999)
Hmm, the 'covers' issue can get quite complex. Take "My Back Pages", for example. It was first released by the Bobster in 1964. But the song we know today was released as a cover by the Byrds in '69, with a markedly different tempo and slight changes to the melody, and it was a cover of this cover that was finally recorded by His Orginal Authorship at the 30th anniversary concert, a recording that incorporated the Byrds changes but further developed the song again, with The Zimmerman being assisted by Messrs McQuinn, Clapton, Petty, Young and Harrison. A strict ruling out of covers would never see the song we know today admitted in any era.
A similar but not quite so complex problem arises with Emmylou's magnificant "Every Grain of Sand". And notwithstanding that it is ruled out on all grounds, how could you call Jimi's "Watchtower" a cover, when His Bobness has long chucked his own version for Hendrix's? It seems to me that a literalist 'black letter' interpretation of the 'no covers' rule must automatically consign some of the best songs to the dustbin, whatever era you limit it to ... not quite in the spirit of searching out the best rock 'n' roll, I'd submit.
Over to you M'Lud.
1) REM "Find the river"
2) Doves "Pounding"
3) Nick Cave "The Mercy Seat"
4) Radiohead "Fake Plastic Trees"
5) Crowded House "Fingers of Love"
6) Paul kelly "Dumb Things"
7) Metallica "Master of Puppets"
8) Suede "We are the pigs"
9) Whitlams "You Sound Like Louis Burdett"
10) Stone Temple Pilots "Sex Type Thing"
(left off all my Sydney indie faves as they wouldnt mean much to most:(
Chris (and others)
If anyone wants to try to mount an argument in an individual case to the effect that a cover is so radically different from the original as to be entitled to credit as a new creation, I would certainly consider it (judge's decision final). I was in that spirit that I specified the initial rule that sampled riffs in a rap or hip hop song didn't disqualify it from being regarded as a new song. I agree, for example that Hendrix's version of "(All Along the) Watchtower" should be regarded as distinct from Dylan's original (but since both wre long before 1985, the question doesn't arise in this poll). OTOH (from the sublime to the ridiculous) I wouldn't regard Rolf Harris' taking the piss version of Stairway to Heaven as a new work. As I said, there are covers and covers.
Another example that illustrates why I'm reluctant to allow covers of pre-1985 releases as a general rule, is that sad old fart Rod Stewart's recent cover album of old jazz standards. His versions add little or nothing to older performances, and are in many cases inferior. Of course, they're not in the rock/pop genre anyway, but it shows you what I'm trying to guard against. Another example is the Natalie Cole + Nat King Cole necrophiliac duet version of Unforgettable. Again it adds nothing to the original except the gimmick of daughter singing with dead dad.
Fine as the numerous re-interpretations of earlier songs may be. I think Ken's point was that new material is being created and we should here be looking for it. His outrageous dismissal of the latter work of great artists was a bit of a red herring.
But what is the point really apart from "let's have fun and make lists."
My hypothesis is that a concern with the date on the cover of a CD is for the most part a concern of the middle aged. They believe that a rigorous pursuit of modern music somehow keeps them young. If it does, then it does only on the most trivial level. It does not necessarily mean we are somehwo intellectually less calcified. I am reasonably sure that most young people don't care. Younger people are discovering works of Dylan, the Stones, Townsend and The Beatles without believing that it ages them. A twenty year old friend texted me the other day - he had just heard "Paperback Writer" for the first time. Blown Away. Fancy hearing Paperback Writer for the first time?
The fact is that while I listen to a lot of new music it is all rooted in a semi traditional genre. Is "I Am A Cinematographer" Pop? You'd have to be me to think so.
Come As You Are - Nirvana Parklife - Blur Old Lady Behind The Counter In A Small Town - Pearl Jam Jesus Christ Pose - Soundgarden Fairytale Of New York - Pogues Where's Your Head At?- Basement Jaxx Born Slippy - Underworld Killing In The Name Of - RATM Better Get A Lawyer - The Cruel Sea Push It - Salt 'n' Pepa
Greensleeves!
Bah, just kidding. Nice idea - I hate those fogey song lists.
Here are some songs I would have at my wedding...
Resurrection by PPK
David Duchovny by Bree Sharp
Stars by T.A.T.U. (the one with the Russian rap)
Landscape by Robert Miles
Eternal Flame by the Bangles (1988)
Billie Jean by Michael Jackson (1985!)
Dancing Galaxy by Astral Projection
If I Only Knew by Tom Jones (1995, I think)
Vega by Paul Van Dyke
Sweet Lullaby by Deep Forest
There are some big questions there James. Let mego to one bifurcation. There always has been and always will be cute guys and girls with groovy hairstyles and fashions popping out tunes that appeal to young folk. These live on, primarily in their meaning to the young folk of any given era. Granted, and there seems little doubt today's tunes are no better or worse than the tunes of the 70s, 60s, or 50s or whatever.
Yet the presumption that the best music is new music, or the latest music, or somehow by definition the music that appeals to the latest generation of youth seems dumb, imo. The so-called 'boomer' generation was fortunate in that it not only had the youngy tunes (Beatles, Monkees, Archies, whatever), it also had the rare experience of a boom in music with deeper antecedents, often practiced by much older folk, that transcended the pop tunes of its era, and thus, I would argue, continues to transcend the pop tunes of subsequent eras ... except in that, of course, the ancient traditions continue to be worked. I'm talking the great (generic) country music tradition that predates classsical music, and is most obviously embodied in music of Celtic and African origins gathered around the pentatonic scale (a scale once banned by the Pope). Music, which I would argue, has appreciable qualities that are not dependent upon sparking memories of the particular context in which it was originally heard. It was a rare event that this music penetrated commercial markets in the 60s/70s.
But these are questions that are probably better pursued post-this post. As you say, it's a good idea to search for recent/current quality. I'm almost convinced to treat Cave seriously.
the cult - she sells sanctuary underworld - rubber ball hoodoo gurus - bittersweet ramones - i wanna be sedated dandy warhols - we used to be friends tears for fears - mad world faith no more - stripsearch cure - why can't i be you garbage - androgeny peter gabriel - shock the monkey
Dirk wrote:
"Old Lady Behind The Counter In A Small Town - Pearl Jam"
Ahem. It's "Elderly Woman Behind The Counter In A Small Town"...
(Sorry...)
Top songs from the last twenty years:
Man In The Dark - David Thomas and Two Pale Boys
Monkey Gone to Heaven - Pixies
American Without Tears - Elvis Costello
Silence is Sexy - Einsturzende Neubauten
Deus - Sugarcubes
there are more but that's my now list
I think "Fairytale of New York" has taken the lead over "Smells like teen spirit".
The Main List U2 - One Third Eye Blind - Semi-Charmed Life Counting Crows
Sorry Ken
I will replace Bohemian Rhapsody with "Pretty fly for a white guy" by Offspring. Cheers
Don
"I think "Fairytale of New York" has taken the lead over "Smells like teen spirit" ..."
No, not even close, Sam. Right now there are 5 votes for "Fairytale of New York" and 14 for "Smells like teen spirit" (and another one for the Tori Amos version thereof, wich I didn't even know existed until now).
As far as I can see, there are no other choices whose total votes exceed 2 or 3, despite the fact that more than 100 readers have now submitted their Top 10. Comparing it with Norm Geras's poll (which apparently had around twice as many respondents as we've currently got), the voting is much more fragmented. It looks like opinions about older songs are much more settled and congealed around some broadly agreed choices. Perhaps that's because the effluxion of time and the playlists of commercial radio stations mean that all but the biggies have been forgotten by everyone but devoted afficionados.
In any event, it's beginning to look like compilation of a Top Twenty list is going to be problematic. I guess all I can do is keep the poll going until we at least have twenty songs each with more than a single vote!!!
Ken, why don't you make a shortlist of the top 50 songs, and then ask people to vote again for, say, three from that list? That would force people to abandon their personal quirks and achieve some kind of consensus.
The artist list may reveal trends the song list doesn't. Pixies fans can't seem to agree but they are out there.
Rapunzel - Dave Matthews Band
Creep - Radiohead
God (Part II) - U2
Two hands of a Prayer - Ben Harper
Suck My Kiss - Red Hot Chili Peppers
Fell On Black Days - Soundgarden
By the time I get to Arizona - Public Enemy
Killing in the name of - Rage against the machine
Smells like teen spirit - Nirvana
It's like that - Run DMC/Jason Nevins
Like someone said before, askagain in half an hour and it'd be completely different. Apologies to Stevie Ray Vaughan and Prince.
Better flesh out my 3 into a 10... for the scroll-challenged my top 3 was:
Smells Like Teen Spirit - Nirvana (1991)
Pump up the Volume - MARRS (1989)
Coffee and TV - Blur (1999)
Continuing on...
Beds are Burning - Midnight Oil (1987)
Under the Bridge - Red Hot Chilli Peppers (1991)
Killing in the Name - Rage Against the Machine (1992)
Short Skirt, Long Jacket - Cake (2001)
Groove is in the Heart - Dee-lite (1990)
Special - Garbage (1998)
A Good Idea - Sugar (1992)
I have tried to restrict this to rock/pop songs, except where I haven't. Gin and Juice is a cover (of a Snoop Dogg song) but it is so brilliant I will defend it to the death. It's easily availble on the net.
New York, New York
Ryan Adams
Gin and Juice
The Gourds
Shooting Star
Bob Dylan
Human Touch
Bruce Springsteen
I Want You to Hurt Like I Do
Randy Newman
Gold in Them Hills
Ron Sexsmith
I Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For
U2
The Ship Song
Nick Cave
Bastards of the Young
The Replacements
Screen Door
Uncle Tupelo
Hmm I want to add Copperhead Road Steve Earle. That makes 11 .... I'll dump u2, theyll get enough votes anyway.
I downloaded the smiths song "There is a light that never goes out", thinking that I may already know it but not recognise the title.
Nope, never heard it in my life. Did all you guys go to the same school or something? Surely "How Soon Is Now" would have to be the pick, if any. It's the only Smiths song most normal people have ever heard of.
I think we can reasonably assume the main rush on this thread is over, allowing for laggards, in which case I'm wondering if the sample can be opened for discussion?
I'll take that as a yes, pro tem. Now, let's just assume for the sake of having the argument that this is a rough approximate, among music fans, anyway ... with say a 20 point MOE. Also, let's put aside the choices of old codgers, such as myself that include the artists that basically rose to fame prior to Ken's period, however stunning some of their current stuff is (and it is).
My early conclusion is that the era of the generational anthems is completely cactus. "Teen Spirit" is the closest, and it doesn't peep far above the rack.
The theories for this are probably endless. One is simply that anthems from the earlier period still hold too much of their ground, and the later music is destined to be subordinate. There is only so much room to move in the form, even if it can never be entirely emptied. Hence, the the artists who caught the first big waves of rock 'n roll etc swept up all the low hanging fruit.
Yet radio is surely important. The mass fragmentation, the casting of myriad choices, the mass production of cheap cds and playing technologies, the privatisation of the listening experience. There are no anthems simply because there is no mass channel, only a mass of channels.
It would be easy to run off at the typewriter in further speculation and implications, but that's a start. One historian's observation is that for everything that's gained, something is lost. The story before it fragmented was a tremendous common social currency for much of my life. I could not begin to count the number of people I've got to know through sharing versions of rock 'n' roll epic stories, or the story of the blues, or whether or not we were at this or that concert. While there have always been sharp divisions of opinion etc, nearly every music fan works off the same page, up to sometime in the 80s. Today's contemporaries, divided into much smaller tribes, speaking so many different musical languages, would have an absolute bugger of a time agreeing on a top party tape.
Chris (and others)
I'm still hoping we'll get a substantial number of additional entries, if only because we need more to even get close to compiling a Top Twenty list. But it seems increasingly unlikely that it will be a terribly meaningful list, in contrast to Norm Geras's experience, where there was clearly a considerably greater degree of consensus over the worth of older songs.
I'm hoping a few more bloggers will link to and promote this post, so we can more votes (NB please!!!).
But I agree that even now there's enough of a trend to make it appropriate to begin to ask why contemporary tastes are so fragmented. Chris's sugestions are credible, but does anyone else have thoughts or observations?
One thing that I reckon is abundantly clear from the nominations to date is that they certainly didn't stop writing great songs in 1985. There's an awesome number in these nominations that stand up in every way against the earlier era.
Must say, I'd like to get lists from the Two Tims. I wouldn't worry about ol' Prof Bunners - still listening on permanent repeat to "Home On the Range", I suspect.
I've changed my mind again about my top 10. Can I submit again? Hmm, probably not, it'd screw up yer polling method Ken.
James H has a good point about the artist list. While the song spread may be too big to compile a representitive top twenty, some definite trends appear to be emerging artistwise. Seems to me, britpop, the seattle sound, alt.country/alt.roots and trip-hop are throwing up some distinct clusters. Homer of course is a cluster all of his own.
Howdy,
1. el Scorcho - Weezer
and in no particular order;
Sweet Lullaby - Deep Forrest
A small Victory - Faith No More
Holy Grail - Hunters & Collectors
Nude no (.... something, something) - Dreams Come True (Jp)
Stereo - Pavement
Hits from the Bong - Cypress Hill
Push the little Daisies - Ween
Weekends - Black Eyed Peas
Tonight - NKOTB (please dont hit me)
this is all so deeply, deeply flawed as to be almost meaningless. lists with no criteria. aside from agreeing with everything amanda says although I haven't read what she says. I should write on this. maybe I will.
nabs I doubt if homer could be described as having a cluster. me. i'm well hung for a sheep as well as a lamb.
meaningless list of top ten post 1977 music, as of this morning
1) Decades - Joy Division
2) Come to me - Bjork
3) Jennifer's Veil - Birthday Party
4) Submission - Sex Pistols
5) Regiment - David Bryne and Brian Eno
6) Lucky - Radiohead
7) Fake Plastic Trees - Radiohead
8) Lambrusco Cowboy - 808 State
9) The Host of Seraphim - Dead Can Dance
10) Under the Milky Way - The Church
Yeah this really is a meaningless exercise because there's about a dozen other artists that should be included here.
As I said in Sophie's original post: nothing artististically significant emerged from modern rock and its hybrids after the mid-1980's. The poll here seems to bear that out.
Agree entirely with cs. In the 60s and 70s was based on a great collective instinct that, although a capitalist money-spinner even then, was not JUST that. It articulated a common yearning for a different politics and a different beauty. We had some real heroes, like Lou Reed (muscular R&R at its absolute best), not empty poseurs paid by TV companies to be 'controversial'.
Rock is dead. (Happy to be hated for that remark.) Let's rediscover blues, ragtime, bluegrass, swing, traditional from China to the Adriatic (not to mention classical - gulp): true musics all. Hendrix was never so good as when he went back to his roots.
Post 1995 list;
Lucky - Radiohead
Fake Plastic Trees - Radiohead
You think I ain't worth a dollar, but I feel like a millionaire - Queens of the Stone Age
Common People '96 - Pulp
Help the Aged - Pulp
Let's push things forward - The Streets
You and whose army? - Radiohead
Barely Legal - The Strokes
Die, All Right! - The Hives
Madame Hollywood - Felix Da Housecat & Miss Kitten
Sex drugs and rock and roll - it's over. I decide it's over.
Rob, sorry to say but that's crap. Post late 1980s, we had the emergence of techno and it's offshoots, a development of extension of 1970s industrial music (electro-punk) and Kraftwerkequese electronic folk music. Plus the development of hip hop music, with artists like Public Enemy absolutely pushing the envelope of new music creation. (I admit most modern 'rap' leaves me very cold). Plus there's the whole Brit pop thing, and it's bastard children, there are many very good songwriters involved in that scene. Then there is Radiohead, who stand like giants over the 1990s with their innovative fusion of prog rock, the smiths, and experimental electronic music. Latterly there has been a distinct revival in rock music of all forms, from hard rock like the Queens Of the Stone Age, through more artists like Franz Ferdinand, and LCD Soundsystem. There are also interesting developments in some quarters of rap/hiphop/garage with artists like the Neptunes/NERD/Pharrell Williams and the quintessential Englishness of The Streets' version of UK Garage.
And not to forget OUTKAST who are brilliant, the second disc of their last album is mindblowing.
Agree with Scot about Industrial music - Einsterzendeneubate (spelling probably askew!) is a case in point, and still going strong. And what atout the classic "Bela Lugosi's Dead" from Bauhaus - and surely Tom Waits (and Nick Cave) prove that rock is not dead!
So, "(d)id good pop songs really stop being made in the early 1980s, or did Norm's readers' tastes just start to ossify then?"
My money's on ossification.
So far this poll seems to have generated a list of hundreds of pretty darn good post-'85 pop songs, and many great ones.
Is it too simplistic to suggest that one reason for the diversity of choice this poll evidences is that there is so much MORE music available than in 1968, 1975 or even 1983? Or put another way, if the Beatles, Elvis, Stones or Dylan appeared in 2005, could they ever possibly create the sort of pop culture phenomena they produced in their heydays?
A second reason for the radical diversification of taste post-'85 may be the death of the "single" format. Norm's readers, to my mind, have largely (though not exclusively) bought what the radio was selling them. My top ten post-'85 contains a mere two songs that I have ever heard on the radio at any point, which seems fairly typical of this poll.
A good pop song remains a good pop song whether ten million people buy it or not.
1) Don't Dream it's Over - Crowded House 2) A Tale They Won't Believe - Weddings, Parties, Anything 3) Miss Freelove - Hoodoo Guru's 4) To Her Door - Paul Kelly 5) Knockbacks in Halifax - Weddings, Parties, Anything 6) Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For - U2 7) You and Me V's The World - Space 8) Golden Skin - Silver Sun 9) Close To Me - The Cure 10) Axe Grinder - Hoodoo Guru's
Last 15 years? In no particular order:
Common People - Pulp
Pot Kettle Black - Wilco
Caught By The Fuzz - Supergrass
No Surprises - Radiohead
Heart Shaped Box - Nirvana
1979 - Smashing Pumpkins
Express Yourself - NWA
Gold Soundz - Pavement
The Wake Up Bomb - REM
Fuzzy - Grant Lee Buffalo
With all due respect to that bloke going on before that there's been nothing decent in 20 years, PLEASE.
Just because there's a lot of crap, doesn't mean that the gems have stopped coming. I note that those namechecking the Beatles, Dylan or the Stones fail to also mention The Archies, The Barron Knights or Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich.
Last 15 years? In no particular order:
Common People - Pulp
Pot Kettle Black - Wilco
Caught By The Fuzz - Supergrass
No Surprises - Radiohead
Heart Shaped Box - Nirvana
1979 - Smashing Pumpkins
Express Yourself - NWA
Gold Soundz - Pavement
The Wake Up Bomb - REM
Fuzzy - Grant Lee Buffalo
With all due respect to that bloke going on before that there's been nothing decent in 20 years, PLEASE.
Just because there's a lot of crap, doesn't mean that the gems have stopped coming. I note that those namechecking the Beatles, Dylan or the Stones fail to also mention The Archies, The Barron Knights or Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich.
Last 15 years? In no particular order:
Common People - Pulp
Pot Kettle Black - Wilco
Caught By The Fuzz - Supergrass
No Surprises - Radiohead
Heart Shaped Box - Nirvana
1979 - Smashing Pumpkins
Express Yourself - NWA
Gold Soundz - Pavement
The Wake Up Bomb - REM
Fuzzy - Grant Lee Buffalo
With all due respect to that bloke going on before that there's been nothing decent in 20 years, PLEASE.
Just because there's a lot of crap, doesn't mean that the gems have stopped coming. I note that those namechecking the Beatles, Dylan or the Stones fail to also mention The Archies, The Barron Knights or Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich.
Last 15 years? In no particular order:
Common People - Pulp
Pot Kettle Black - Wilco
Caught By The Fuzz - Supergrass
No Surprises - Radiohead
Heart Shaped Box - Nirvana
1979 - Smashing Pumpkins
Express Yourself - NWA
Gold Soundz - Pavement
The Wake Up Bomb - REM
Fuzzy - Grant Lee Buffalo
With all due respect to that bloke going on before that there's been nothing decent in 20 years, PLEASE.
Just because there's a lot of crap, doesn't mean that the gems have stopped coming. I note that those namechecking the Beatles, Dylan or the Stones fail to also mention The Archies, The Barron Knights or Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick and Tich.
I must like those songs a lot.
Sorry about the repetition, damn computers.
I also feel bad about not including:
Berlin Chair - You Am I
Buy Me A Pony - Spiderbait
Deeper Water - Paul Kelly
Bridal Train - The Waifs
Self Abuser - The Fauves
Black Stick - The Cruel Sea
Hey, clumsyk, I am 'that bloke'....
Here's a thought abut the differences between this poll and norm's. Maybe 'great' music has to stand the test of time. After all, Bach and Vivaldi were ignored for centuries before somehow we discovered their real worth.
Maybe it's too soon for the 90's and 00's rock music. Maybe the next generation - the ones that didn't grow up with it - is the one to make the judgement. That's what intrigues me about norm's results. Not 'ossified' audience; but merely that a later generation has had the chance to compare what it grew up with itself, and what it listened to later.
Maybe in ten years' time a poll like this will be able to knock out the crap and just focus on the real masterpieces. Maybe now is too soon.
Just a thought.
Rob's got a point (in his last comment). It's probably similar to literature - who reads anything from the bestseller lists from 1950? If you look at the top 10 singles from any year in Australia from 1970 onwards - there's a list somewhere on the net but I can't find it atm - you can dismiss in retrospect 7 out of 10 as absolute crap, in the years when you're in school and probably listening to the radio and know and can still remember them all.
Chris' hypothesis about fragmentation of taste and media is interesting as well. Maybe instead of the musical claim that "video killed the radio star", the internet and iPods have killed the radio star.
I know this is pulling the thread out of shape a bit but exactly the same thing applies to 'modern' classical music. In a hundred years, people will still be listening to Mozart. Thye won't be listening to Terry Riley or John Zorn, both of whom enjoy a certain contemporary cachet. Great art is timeless. Zorn and Riley are, well, contemporary.
Thye'll be listening too to the Beatles, I suspect, because songs like 'Eleanor Rigby' and 'Norwegian Wood' have a haunting melodic and textual quality that transcends time.
And I would argue that anyone collecting 'great' music will be listening to the music that Wilco has made in the last 10 years in 30 years time.
The fact that the records have been made in the previous decade does not render then incapable of being labelled 'great'. Really, all that does is attach a reasoning that renders us unable to include such work until they cease to become "contemporary", which (to my mind) is silly.
Wait and see, Clumsyk, is all I can say. Me, I loved Abba songs when they first came out, but I cringe at the very memory now.
See, I would argue Super Trouper, Fernando or Dancing Queen all stand up as pretty good pop songs after (almost) 30 years. The fact that they still sell records to new generations probably supports that.
They might make you cringe, but they make plenty of others get up and dance, and isn't that the point of pop?
(Although, the fact that I reckon Dolly and Kenny's "Islands in the Stream" deserves to be on any all-time great hit parade may well disqualify me.)
Yes, you've probably beaten me on that one. But what about the Bay City rollers?
The Bay City Rollers (70s) were (and still are), pretty much crap. Just as 1910 Fruitgum Company (60s) were/are crap, Bros (80s) were/are crap, 5ive (90s) were/are crap and Guy Sebastian (00s) is crap.
Good criteria, actually:
were/are crap
weren't/aren't crap
were/aren't crap
are/will be crap
are/wern't crap
Etc.
Sorry, the apostrophes are making me dizzy.
I suppose the fact that I still feel a guilty pleasure listening to Abba (deep in my bones) does in fact say something about both Abba and me - mainly to Abba's credit.
Some Abba - not dancing queen.
'...I cringe at the very memory now'.
That's my official position. But I got caught out bopping to Super Trouper at mini-golf on Saturday.
I hated Abba. And I was scarred for life by having to learn disco dancing to the tune of Saturday Night Fever at the school camp at Tallebudgera - male teacher in white suit. Aaarrrggghhh!
At my 40th birthday party I banned disco. The DJ wasn't allowed to play it even if it was requested.
When I was studying English literature in the 1960s one lecturer said what was 'great' was what people with cultivated taste said was great over at least three generations. Literary criticism then asks what makes those works great.
Classical music buffs will probbly know about two excercises undertaken by ABC Classic FM. They just finished the Classic Piano 100 compiled after asking their audience, "What is the one piece of piano music you can't do without?"
The results are at http://www.abc.net.au/classic/classic100/countdown.htm
For the lazy Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata (which turns out to have bugger-all to do with moonlight - he had the hots for a chick at the time) was tops. He cracked three of the top ten.
They did a similar excercise for classical music generally a few years ago. Top was Mozart's Clarinet Concerto in A, K 622. That time Ludwig cracked four of the top ten. The list is at http://troppoarmadillo.ubersportingpundit.com/archives/008459.html
What's interesting about both lists is that only a handful of composers on them were born after 1900 and not many died after 1900. So most of the good stuff was written between 1700 and 1900 (roughly JS Bach to Grieg) and it was so good it's hard to break in now.
I wouldn't hazard a guess as to whether the pop song will ever reach a similar state of maturity, but I suspect not.
"I wouldn't hazard a guess as to whether the pop song will ever reach a similar state of maturity, but I suspect not.
And thank god for that too!
Brian, you say "What's interesting about both lists is that only a handful of composers on them were born after 1900 and not many died after 1900. So most of the good stuff was written between 1700 and 1900 (roughly JS Bach to Grieg) and it was so good it's hard to break in now." And yet two tunes out of the top four were by 20th century composers (Debussy and Satie). On this basis, maybe there is room in the list of "Best Pop Songs Ever" for music from the 1990s. Doubt it meself, but y'never know.
Brian: Could you check that link for the Top 100 classics?
No need. Found it: http://www.abc.net.au/classic/classic100/previous.htm
And Brian: fair point about 'great' composers not having been born in the 20th century, but a lot of them made their reputations in the course of it: Bartok, Martinue, Vaughn Williams, Britten, Messaien, Part (maybe...time will tell), Richard Strauss.
Not quite sure though whether I'm arguing with you or against you here.
Okay >>> Here are my top three:
1. Black - Pearl Jam
2. No Surprises - RadioHead
3. Betterman - Robbie Williams
Ruff
Feel free to nominate 10 rather than 3. I'm still soliciting entries so I can actually formulate some sort of ranked list (however dubiously meaningful given the fragmentation of choices). My current intention is to leave the post open until this coming weekend then collate and publish the results, including a separate list of top 20 artists rather than just top 20 songs (because there's a little more pattern to the selection of artists than individual songs).
I'm not listening to bands who do anthems but I'm sure anthems are still out there.
Do you have any idea how much young people living/identifying outside the cities like Copperhead Road?
James, sorry about the link. Don't know what happened.
James, on reflection I think we are looking at an established canon from 1700 to 1900 which represents an extensive winnowing from masses of works. Re the 20C it is probably to early to say how much will endure. I'm not across current musical creation enough to theorise with confidence, but I think one could say that there is plenty being written for very specific circumstances that means plenty to the people involved. Much of the old stuff was in a sense occasional, eg for salons, churches etc. Beethoven's Moonlight sonata was apparently written because the student he wanted to wed asked for a sonata dedicated to her.
Today much classical music-making is similar, I think, although the there is a greater range of settings and circumstances.
In terms of song, which is the larger form of what Ken is looking at, I think it is occasional, born out of the artist's personal lived experience, touches universal themes, needs, yearnings etc and must connect with its audience in its realisation. So as a form it will endure and adapt. But a canon will probably form out of the best. I think there is enough interest in the best from 50 years ago or more to encourage us to think that the best will communicate across the generations. Whether it is regarded as high art doesn't really matter.
Delerium - Silience
Robert Miles - Fable
Brainbug - Nightmare
Weird Al Yankovic - What if God smoked Cannabis
Tokyo Ghetto Pussy - I kiss your lips
Coal Chamber - Loco
Korn - Blind
Area 7 - Bitter Words
Frenzal Rhomb - Get fucked you fucking fuckwit
Canibal Corpse - Born in a Casket
I tried to span the bredth of my most favourite genres picking a song or two from each of them, naturaly which is favourite song varies heavily with mood. Also modified some selections to pick less offensive titles from certain artists (without dropping my tastes too much)
Alanis Morrissette- You Oughtta Know
Radiohead- Karma Police
Frente- Accidently Kelly Street
Jeff Buckley- Last Goodbye
Powderfinger- Pick You Up
Spiderbait- Calypso
Alanis Morrissette- Head Over Feet
Spice Girls- Wannabe
Missy Higgins- Scar
Fat Boy Slim- Praise You
Oh Man' first I couldn't think of any and now I've thought of too many! Had to cut it back. Plus I wanted to Include 'Gangsta's Paradise' but didn't know who to bump.
This is a great idea.
I thought I'd keep mine to 1 song per band.
Artist/Song title.
TISM - Michael Jackson's Conveyor Belt
Severed Heads - Greater Reward
My Life With The Thrill Kill Kult - Devil Bunnies
The Fall - Bombast
Negativland - U2 (Radio Edit)
SNOG - Born To Be Mild
Alien Sex Fiend - Isolation
Lush - Nothing Natural
Nick Cave - Tupelo
Frenzal Rhomb - Russell Crowe's Band
You know, often I can't actually distinguish the names of the bands from the names of the songs. Anyone else have that problem?
better late than never...
1985-1995
Wayne Smith - Under Mi Sleng Teng (Jammys 7", 1985)
LL Cool J - I Can't Live Without My Radio (Def Jam 12", 1985)
Talk Talk - Life's What You Make It (EMI 7", 1986)
808 State - Pacific State (ZTT 7", 1989)
Happy Mondays - Hallelujah (Factory 12", 1989)
Junior Reid - One Blood (JR 7", 1989)
Omar - There's Nothing Like This (Talkin Loud 12", 1990)
Tribe Called Quest - Buggin' Out (Jive 12", 1991)
Massive Attack - Unfinished Symphony (Circa 12", 1991)
Money Mark - Cry / Insects Are All Around Us (Mo Wax 7", 1995)
1995-2005
Norma Jean Bell - I'm The Baddest Bitch (In The Room) (Pandamonium 12", 1996)
The Verve - Bitter Sweet Symphony (Virgin CD, 1997)
Destiny's Child - Survivor (Columbia 12", 2000)
Missy 'Misdemeanor' Elliott - Get UR freak on (Elektra 12", 2001)
Manu Chao - Me Gustas Tu (Virgin France CD, 2001)
Sizzla - Solid As A Rock (VP, 2002)
Tanya Stephens - What A Day (Xterminator 7", 2002)
Bugz in the Attic - Zombie (MCA CD, 2002)
The Necks - Drive By (Morphius CD, 2003)
Bitty McLean & The Supersonics - Cruising (Peckings 7", 2004)
Has the Stock/Aitken/Waterman music murder trial started yet?
20. Bitter sweet symphony - The Verve
19. Walk of life - Dire Straits
18. Give it up - Hothouse flowers
17 Boys of summer - Don Henley
16. Praise you - Fatboy Slim
15. Frozen - Madonna
14. One night in Bangkok - Murray Head
13. Streets of Philadelphia - Bruce Springsteen
12. Iris - Goo goo dolls
11. Bizarre love triangle - New Order
10. Some like it hot - Power station
9. How you remind me - Nickelback
8. Constant craving - K.D Lang
7. Almost threw it all away - Charlie Peacock
6. Amazing - Alex Lloyd
5. Bring me to life - Evanescence
4. Face the face - Pete Townshend
3. St. Elmo's fire - John Parr
2. Tubthumping - Chumbawamba
1. Pride (in the name of love) - U2
Ummmmm....ahhhhh!!!!....I killed the thread.
No the threads not dead! Interesting reading throughout. I'll admit up front that I could listen to Lou Reed (Walk on the Wild Side) and Abba (most any of them) and still fell like I'm maitaining a "pop" integrity. Both great artists with great songs that stand the test of time.
Method I chose was to list my media player songs and select those I replay most. This leaves many good ones out but seems to fit the "most popular" criteria.
So I'm a baby boomer mid 40s so here's my list with all the baggage my age carries...
Return to me - Bob Dylan
All These Things That I have Done - The Killers
Rock and Roll Lifestyle - Cake
Linger - Cranberries
Holy Grail - Hunters and Collectors
I Miss You - Blink 182
Landslide - Fleetwood Mac
North Carolina - Mellissa Ferrick
Pump it up - Elvis Costello
things have Changed - Bob Dylan
Shame no room for Neil Young, Paul kelly, neil and Tim Finn, Springsteen, Indigo Girls