Why did it happen?
I think that the combination of four factors (listed below) was close to a sufficient cause. Sufficient at least to make a terrorist attack highly likely. And they are also arguably necessary. I think if you remove any one the first three then Bondi does not happen, though I am not 100% sure of the last one and it might only be a contributing factor.
Israel’s excessive response to October 7. Israel reacted to October 7 with unnecessary brutality. They could have sent in surgical commandos to reduce civilian deaths. They could have increased security along the Gaza border, but that would require less IDF in the West Bank which would require abandoning the illegal Jewish settlements there. Israel has lost international support, and their reputation is permanently damaged. The Australian public were largely appalled by the Israeli response and many public intellectuals and politicians said so. This makes retaliation imaginable in the minds of the violent.
Allowing 250,000 Muslim immigrants into Australia. Many came from Lebanon where there was a war between Muslims and Christians. Many were Palestinian. Polls demonstrate that Arabs in that part of the world have majority support for October 7. Clearly, we were importing potential trouble. Like all immigrants over the last 50 years, they were strongly encouraged to maintain their culture and communities, rather than to assimilate.
Social media radicalisation. FB, TikTok and X are all monetised hate machines. There will be worse examples on the dark web where there are also sources of practical advice. Wanna build an IED? If these platforms did not exist, the two Akrams would be unlikely to have conceived their plan.
Not condemning all pro-Palestinian protests after October 7. Australian Jews did not publicly protest on October 8. The only major protest was by Palestinian activists at the Opera House, before any Israeli response. They chanted “gas the Jews” and Mal Lanyon embarrassed himself by claiming otherwise. The weekly protests in Melbourne over 18 months were a loud, aggressive exercises in performative bullying. Our Premier and the PM (both of whom are in the left faction and rely on the support of those with extreme views on Israel) did not call on them to stop or for their community leaders to distance the community from these protests.
We cannot do anything about the first two causative factors. There is some room to move on the last two.
What do others say were the causes?
Gun availability and antisemitism. Bollocks.
Terrorists can always get hold of guns. Once you decide you are going to kill civilians for a cause, breaking the law by sourcing illegal guns is not a big hurdle. Assault rifles and automatic weapons already being banned did reduce the damage that the Akrams inflicted; while gun restrictions are not completely useless, they would not have prevented the attack from happening at all.
I am not against making gun ownership harder and more restricted on more general grounds. It would reduce suicides and domestic violence and other forms of spontaneous unplanned violence. But it will not prevent planned violence, including terrorism or other organised or professional criminal activity.
How about antisemitism? The victims were targeted for being Jews, right? Yes, but the word antisemitism has a different common meaning.
Traditional antisemitism hardly exists in Australia. Jenna Price wrote about Jews being excluded from golf clubs and schools in the 1960s. What Jenna does not mention is that the bigotry she experienced back then has evaporated. Nobody talks about Jews having big noses or being stingy or money lenders or killers of Christ anymore. The days when Jews were excluded from positions of power are long gone. Just ask Josh Frydenberg if you don’t believe me (but get ready for an angry partisan rant from him for even asking him the question).
What the papers are calling antisemitism now is not antisemitism at all, any more than anti-Japanese rhetoric during WW2 was anti-Asian bigotry. What we have is ethnic hatred based on international and religious politics. It is all about Palestine versus Israel, which is all about Muslims refusing to countenance a non-Muslim state in the Middle east. They would feel as aggrieved if Israel was a Hindu state. And would then be attacking Hindu Australians. So, nothing to do with Jewishness per se.
Where to from here?
Require prospective immigrants to demonstrate support of liberal values. This will require documentary historical evidence, not a gameable test at the embassy. The onus of proof should be reversed. It is not for the department of immigration to find your jihadist post on some remote website on the dark web or uncover your links to the CCP. Demonstrate that you are trustworthy. We have enough prospective immigrants that we can be as choosey as we like. If our NOM decreases, I can live with that.
Stop actively encouraging immigrants to maintain their culture. Our leaders should more explicitly ask immigrants to leave any ethnic or political rivalries back in their home countries. Albanese recently made the following statement:
When people enter into Australia and go through the customs hall, they leave any prejudices and any hatreds in that hall, and they celebrate Australia … that’s what I want to see.
Halleluiah. They should expect and encourage their children to become more Aussie and embrace the opportunities of the 21st century rather than stew on ancient enmities. Sure, bring your new food, but I think we have every possible cuisine covered at this point.
Increase ASIO surveillance of all preachers. In practice this will mean mosques. I want an ASIO agent with a recording device in every single Mosque as well as mingling with the crowd afterwards with the mic still running. There is no need to announce it or legislate it as a policy. Base it on threat assessment under existing statutes. If you really want to pretend that this has nothing to do with one religion, then waste your time sending ASIO to the Adventist Church as well. But if they base it on threat, they will not.
Increase ASIO surveillance of the internet and dark web. The law changes after 9/11 probably already allow this and I assume that they are already doing it. They should do more of it. They should hack the computers of any Australian suspects so that they can monitor every key stroke. (Note: John Walker has pointed out in the comments that the intense scrutiny of White supremacists would be just as justified as scrutiny of Muslims).
Stop claiming Australia is the most successful multicultural country in the world. This is used to shut down any discussion of immigration or multiculturalism. It prevents any consideration of trade-offs, let alone acknowledging failures.
Even before Bondi, our claim was exaggerated. We have ethnic enclaves across major cities. In Melbourne, Box Hill is entirely Chinese. The only English you see is on the road signs. Religious or ethnic enclaves are rarely a healthy sign. I am even uncomfortable with Caulfield being a Jewish enclave, but there are zero examples of Jewish terrorism in a Western liberal democracy. It is just unsightly rather than potentially dangerous.
It is about time it was commonly accepted that multiculturalism can have costs as well as benefits. And to maximise the benefits you have to explicitly encourage assimilation. Many people consider this beyond the pale, a first cousin of the White Australia policy. Yet it was the official policy during Australia's most successful period of absorbing migrants, post war. Jezza you beauty!
What about Ahmed al Ahmed? I think he would support my list of responses. The majority (but not the overwhelming majority) of Muslims will make good citizens, though probably not as good as him. Few could be. But we do not have to take any risks.
Some final thoughts that did not fit neatly above.
I remember back in the 1980s a Vietnamese girl was killed in front of Flinders Street station. A few days later there was a public demonstration of support and remorse. ChatGPT5 could not find anything about this incident, but I do not think I imagined it. Who else recalls the event I am thinking of?
Will the Muslim community organise a public show of support for Australian Jews and express mass public remorse for Bondi? A Philippines Imam seems to be doing something like this, but not here afaik. If they do, I might have to write another post after thinking it through.
Catholics admit they have a problem and do not consider media attention on child abuse to be "Christophobic". Muslims have an inability to openly admit that they have a serious fundamental problem. They resentfully close ranks, even urbane public intellectuals like Waleed Ali.
There were no anti-English protests on St. Patrick’s Day, even during the Northern Ireland “troubles”. We have not seen demonstrations in support of Putin by Russian Australians. There were no Ukrainians throwing rocks at the Russian embassy after they were invaded.
Protesting in the streets is not a basic human right. It is nothing to do with free speech. The Australian government does not support Israel militarily. Street protests are designed not to refine national policy but to be a real-time performative threat. Yelling at the top of your voice while stopping traffic is not an argument, or an attempt to persuade. J.S. Mill did not have a chapter about it.
I hate to tell you this Chris but they were inspired by ISIS. ISIS has no sympathy for Palestinians as they are either shia muslims or Christians. ISIS has killed more muslims than any other religious people purely because they are apostates.
This evil massacre had NOTHING to do with Israel/ Gaza at all. You are as bad as Minns or Segal!
It takes very little research to find this out.
Security cannot shut down every terrorist event particularly lone wolf affairs . This is something everyone needs to understand
So why did they target Jews and not Hindus? ISIS believe in pan-Islamism. The same impulse underlies the refusal of the whole middle east to accept a non-Muslim state in the ME.
Because they hate jews more than anyone else and ISIS is not in control here. If they were all sorts of people would be murdered.
for petes sake what happened at bondi had nothing to do with the ME! They killed jews here not in Israel.
If you stop 'muslim' immigration you do not have the hero living here. Stopping muslim immigration is a trumpian statement and makes no sense at all.
Try reading what I wrote.
Chris
The Atlantic recently reported on broadly based surveys in the US that indicate that antisemitism is becoming significantly more common in young people than in those say over fifty. And I gather that there is also a growing group of young right wing republicans that are openly antisemitic without being supportive of Palestine etc.
Feel that antisemitism is something that never quite goes away that it’s not simply about Israel etc
Fair point John,
If traditional antisemitism still exists then it will be found in the extreme right, white nationalist movements. Quite small in the US, and very small here. Could NSN here kill Jews? I would not put it past them. I am fine with ASIO targeting any credible threats, so I should have included them. In fact, I might go back and edit the post with hat-tip to you.
Amongst young people in the US, it appears universally agreed that their hostility is almost entirely about Israel and their "colonialist white privilege". This is not me saying it. It is the anti-Zionist young people who insist that they are not against any religion or race, but against colonialist power structures.
But do you take my point that the Akrams, not to mention the Palestinians and even ISIS are not antisemitic in the traditional sense? That they have a political gripe that inspires their terrible violence, not unlike the IRA? The IRA were not mainly racist against Anglo-Saxons surely. And this is worth getting right because to address a problem you need to diagnose and understand it. Saying "Australia is antisemitic" feels like a meaningless mea culpa to me.
Chris think you’re probably correct about the Palestinians
Not sure about ISIS Iran and the like
regarding Australia’s academic and activist left cultures personally I feel that they just want a reason to be activist
Feel we should not ignore the long campaigns by the revolutionary guards and Russian to stir the pot either
Chris on reflection from the very beginning the Arab world repeatedly tried to drive Israel out of the region . Israel is a small parcel of land with little in the way of significant resources re oil or minerals. Perhaps the hostility is more ingrained?
Homer, try to follow the thread and contribute to the argument. Don't abuse people or even be short with people - certainly not bona fide people like Chris.
Remember, this is Club Pony.
Understandably the shock of the killings generated a heap of questions with an even greater heap of answers. The killings were inexplicable, what theory can make these deaths reasonable?
My guess is that the answers lie in statistics, the chance of two individuals linked by birth who hold the same extreme views and then put them into action are astronomical, but not impossible.
For myself about a quarter of my classmates at Sydney Boy’s were eastern suburbs Jews I liked them enjoyed their company In my early days as an artist Jews like George Mora among many others were incredibly generous and kind to me . When I heard the news I felt deep tearful grief and a deep anger towards our political class that have fudged and denied for two years . Instead of leadership they have given us ‘ politics ‘. Could it have been prevented ?is not the question rather it’s did they even try? For example after the murders of those police by the sovereign citizens in Queensland it was announced that there would be a proper national gun registry. I gather that such a national registry of guns still hasn’t even begun to be put together and that at least some of the guns the Bondi killers used were of a type that they were not permitted to have under the low level category of licence that they had .
Nicholas “ What the papers are calling antisemitism now is not antisemitism at all,” … Personally I can understand Homer getting angry
Chris back in my day the library at Sydney Boys had a book The Byzantine Commonwealth can’t say why but it started a life long interest in all things Byzantine
I’m a practicing Christian am struck by how little the west including my Christian friends actual know about the messy history of the region bound between roughly Constantinople, Antioch and Isfahan
As a peaceful atheist, I find it useful to divide antisemitism into two categories, Christian antisemitism and Muslim antisemitism. The former, which exhausted itself in Nazi excesses, is coming up for its 2000th anniversary. The latter, which began with Mahomet's military adventures, was rekindled by the establishment of Israel, and the persecution and dispossession of Palestinian Moslems by the more brutal Zionists. Einstein was a Zionist, but he loathed Begin for his brutality. Einstein was a left-wing Zionist who dreamt of an Israel in which Moslems would have better lives than in surrounding countries. He was too optimistic to understand the reality of middle-east derived religions, which is more in the news these days. The brutal Zionists have been selected as leaders of Israel by its geography and recent history. These have resulted in a religious war between brutal Zionists and brutal Moslems, which has now spread to Australia. In general, peaceful Jews are less likely to have attended the celebrations at Bondi beach, arguably Australia's most public place. The peaceful Jews are keeping their heads down, because they are not supporters of religious war. That turned out to be a wise move.
Nick, As much as I admire you Chris wrote from a state of profound ignorance as I have shown. Linking the bondi massacre to pro--palestinian marches as both Minns and Segal have done is simply creating misinformation. I am sick of it. The Nazis had zero to do with christianity. No christian is anti--semitic if only because if not for the jews Jesus would not have been crucified.
Chris regarding your thoughts on what to do next I suspect it would be easier to get approval for building a nuclear reactor through our system than to enact what you suggest.
Re antisemitism ,personally and very anecdotally within the government arts sector there does seem to me to be a real streak of antisemitism that has been covertly ( the sector is not known for transparency etc) simmering away for years, while the awfulness of Gaza has fed it sure
but I feel that to a degree it has also simply emboldened some to be much more open about their hate than they would have previously dared.
Hey John,
The notion that people in the arts sector, who are ultra-sensitive to the feelings of every minority, would be secret Jew-hater is, quite frankly, ludicrous. I could use a stronger word than ludicrous. Their antipathy towards Israel is not Jew-hatred. I am in good company here it seems. Laura Tingle said the something similar recently, and has been attacked for it by Sky and the Oz.
ISIS is not antisemitic either. They want an Islamic caliphate and will kill anyone who stands in their way, Jew, Christian, Atheist or other Muslim. White nationalists might be antisemitic, but they also hate blacks and anybody who is not white. Labelling them as antisemitic as if this alone makes them bad rather misses the point of their aims and gripes. Using the term antisemitic is no different to refugee advocates using concentration camp to describe immigration detention centres. It is shameless use of holocaust sensitivities to activate emotion and shut down thought.
What I proposed to do next (and which you say could never happen) was: tighten vetting of immigrants; start promoting a policy of assimilation; increase state surveillance of preachers and the dark web (and white nationalists as you pointed out); stop pretending that diversity is our strength. This has ALL been done in Denmark over the past 15 years, lately by a left government.
Yes, it is ingrained but not in the way you suggest. My understanding that Muslims hold that entire middle east must be Islamic. Having a non-Islamic state in it is an insult to the Prophet (pbuh). It is like founding a Muslim state in the middle if Europe during the Crusades. It is not to be endured.
I think I made a clear distinction between "traditional" antisemitism and antisemitism. Words morph in their meaning. Racist once meant that you support a Eugenic theory that blacks were subhuman and could be subjugated and abused like animals. Now it can describe merely a resistance to acknowledgment of country in every meeting. If you use the same word for these things, you abuse the language. Likewise, if you use the same word "antisemitism" to describe Black shirts in 1933 and pink-haired fuckwit protesters at Harvard in 2024.
With significant qualifications I agree with you
Chris they are ultra sensitive about, some identities , not all .
What they say and what they what they do can diverge.
While I would mostly agree with you on what you’re written at same time i don’t quite agree and it’s not a matter of semantics either
As for ISIS and ME etc I’m Byzantine enough to say if you understand then you don’t know enough
PS Laura tingles its not about religion is only conceivable if you believe religions are not world views In short you would have to be non religious to say that
Chris I’d also caution re taking the category Religion to seriously as a basis for thought about all this;
it’s a enlightenment 18C construct category that applies reasonably well to the people of the book but gets more and more confusing to out right misleading if applied to most of the world ( and even within the Abrahamic tradition it can be more heat than light)
Classic example of this category problem is the Dali Llama is undeniably a major religious leader yet the Dali Llama is also an avowed atheist
I have made the mistake of not recognising a third category of antisemitism that was a major contributor to the holocaust, along with the antisemitism of historical Christian literature that is evident to anybody exposed to it. Financial antisemitism is derived from the tendency of Jewish financiers and industrialists to form a monopoly with internal supply chains. Internal benevolence is essential to any culture, but there is less need for external benevolence in a non-proselytising culture like Judaism, than there is for the proselytising cultures. Jewish restricted benevolence is noticeable in finance, but the opposite is the case in science, where (mostly secular) Jews are hugely appreciated for their disproportionately great contribution. Nationalism is a major form of restricted benevolence, for which the Old Testament provides a Western prototype. The problem of such restricted benevolence is huge because it so often leads to open conflict between large forces. Open conflict with a victor seldom solves the problem. Fair competition is not a solution because inevitable squabbles about fairness lead to plagues of lawyers and thence back into lawyer-justified open conflict. For the West, perceived lack of fairness is a casus belli. A moral system teaching universal benevolence is the peacemakers' only viable policy. Universal benevolence grows only out of people understanding one another, which requires an education system teaching foreign languages and cultural history, along with the world culture of science and mathematics.
Chris just a thought re antisemitism as a ,category Suggest its defining trait ,as a category, is hostility hatred towards Jews , not any specific historical context to that hate. For example The specific reasons behind say austro Hungarian antisemitism in say 1760 and the reasons for Arab hostility in 1948 would be quite different yet in my eye they both qualify as antisemitism BTW some of the Jewish responses to Austro Hungarian antisemitism in the late 18Cwere themselves interesting it’s one of the themes of Nicholas Rothwell’s book Quicksilver a good read
Homer, it's always possible - indeed it's easy to look at what someone's said, compare it to what you think would be fully informed and decide it's written from proufound ignorance. I could happily do it to your contribution, but it's not worth the trouble. Good manners are a shortcut for handling this. If you don't behave with good manners, particularlywith someone who is bona fide, please go elsewhere. How do we know who's bona fides? Here I decide and I know. And I'll put you in the naughy room if you don't obey. At least here at Troppo, these are the few characteristics I share with God.
Chris while I get you
There is something about antisemitism -perhaps its combination of mutability yet undying consistency ?
That makes me sceptical of your definition etc
Ps just thinking out load
when antisemitism over the centuries has really become a major thing it has often coincided with surges of end of days Eschatology cults .
to my eye the Nazis and ISIS look like extreme variety’s of end of days cults.
And I’ve seen some recent national polling that suggests that restrictions on immigration etc has at the moment a fairly large support base
Nicholas What’s your thoughts on our governments rejection of calls for a Royal Commission?
Chris re stop pretending that diversity is our strength. Don’t agree Diversity individualism , equal opportunity is the heart of our greatest strength And ‘ identity’ is our kryptonite
Nick, If you think like Chris ( or Minns and Segal) that the Pro-palestinian marches have an association with the massacre then there is no hope. It takes less than a minute to find out ISIS has no love for palestinians!! This article is very catallaxian
A key difference between ISIS and the Nazi's is that the Nazi theories of how the Jews had hurt them were an absolute delusion. They had zero legitimate reason to blame the Jews for anything. ISIS aim to create a caliphate and are at least correct in identifying that Israel is a challenge to that. So I find it hard to see them as the inheritor of traditional antisemitism. But that is just me joining the dots that I see.
Sure. You can define antisemitism that way and I would say it is a sensible literalist definition. The problem is that we need to identify the different drivers of this hatred. So I prefer, White Supremacist, Jihadist, postmodern anti-Zionist so we at least know more who we are talking about. Thanks for your interesting perspective.
Chris if you can access The Atlantic this piece from 2015 is worth a read:
What ISIS Really Wants
The Islamic State is no mere collection of psychopaths. It is a religious group with carefully considered beliefs, among them that it is a key agent of the coming apocalypse. Here’s what that means for its strategy—and for how to stop it.
By Graeme Wood
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/
Do note "coming apocalypse"
PS
Personally i sincerely wish i could say that what happened at Bondi had nothing at all to do whats been going on in Australia over the past few years .
the tens of thousands of Australians over the past few years who have joined marches protests etc headed by calls of “ river to the sea” ie: eliminate Israel, often with the banners of ISiS Hamas and ayatollah’s etc are not possibly relevant?
Chris Dalrymple's From the Holy Mountain in which he retraced the journey of two Christian monks around the Levantine Byzantine world at the time of Justinian
Is a great read while the books main subject is eastern Christians and their world in about 500 ad and in the mid 19”90s it also gives a glimpse into just how complex fractious and diverse the region really is
And Dalrymple writes so well 🙂
Former Liberal foreign minister Alexander Downer said security agencies advising the Prime Minister would have views on many things following the Bondi attacks, but whether to hold a royal commission as opposed to an internal review was not likely among them. “A review, a royal commission: they wouldn’t care one way or another – that’s a matter for government,” Mr Downer said. “The simple fact is, the government has no interest in anything that would look too closely at anti-Semitism. That’s why it’s not in the Richardson terms of reference and it’s why they won’t hold a royal commission. They are deliberately ensuring this isn’t investigated too closely or else it will find Labor somewhat culpable.” Feel that Downer is speaking truth
most of that is aperhal. rivers to the sea is in the platform of the Likud party.
For the 1000th time ISIA have no sympathy for Palestinians for theological reasons. Look it up it aint hard and it takes little time. you are simply creating misinformation
whoopsy didn't spell check. Apocryphal is the word
Chris
Be it Wahhabi , ISIS, IRG etc or the multitude of far right groups broadcasting on the web and regardless of which particular world view animates them they are always casting seeds on the ground in just about every nation
In Australia in the last few years the soil has become more receptive and the gardeners have been asleep, have not done nearly enough weeding.
The correct spelling is apókruphos
PS if it was just my call I’d have the Varangian guard bisect you However my princess : Anna Komnene commands me to be Christian ….
it isn't in english.
don't apologise for mistaking banners of various organisations or countries for something else. Mediawatch had a good segment on it although how anyone can think the palestinian flag and the hamas flag are the same is startling but Sky afterdark did. But green is in most of them
Don't forget Homer that I am the bloke that blew up Catallaxy with my "slant eyes" comment about Jason Soon. If I ever start a career in politics (very unlikely bearing in mind my temperament) then I am serious f**ked!
I have no clear opinion on the merits of a RC. I am pretty confident however that the Coalition want it because there will be ample opportunity to highlight the post-hoc failures of the ALP and the ALP do not want it for the same reason.
Sounds about right 👍
I have suggested in several of these threads that ISIS want to create a Muslim caliphate and so ANYONE who stands in their way is an enemy. Hence, Israel is an enemy. I have never claimed ISIS are pro-Palestinian. The two shooters were partly inspired by ISIS (they had an ISIS flag) and they targeted Jews only.
My contention is that the Akrams would have been emboldened by the general pro-Palestinian vibe over the previous 18 months, even if the ISIS leaders in Iraq are not. I cannot see that this is an ignorant position.
Hmmm. Mind you, it wasn't hard to blow up cesspitallaxy
The main thing you can rely on in our political system is that all of those given most attention will have ulterior and unacknowledged motives.
A RC would be a public enquiry and could well bring to light things etc. Feel that is what bothers them.
Chris
Something to bear in mind when thinking about the ME and ‘theology’is for about a thousand years after the fall of Rome :the long century’s in which the west rebuilt itself , there was just one church ,just one central authority re doctrine etc
The ME has never been like that.
Personally while the ‘ ember’ may well have come from afar that doesn’t address why our country was so choked up with dry tinder and why our brigades were asleep
reason for a RC is it’s simply obvious by now that the government really really doesn’t want one🙂
A RC would investigate the various definitions of anti-semitism and undoubtedly reflect the envoy's as conflating criticism of israel with wilful criticism of jews. They would also heavily criticise actors such as Minns and Segal and others in associating pro=palestinian protests with this massacre. some of this was wilful. they mi ght even heavily criticise the very recent Israeli government report on anti-semitism in australia for willfully saying the same.
If one was held it would be better AFTER the investigation of the security forces.
It is very hard for said forces to contain lone wolves particularly those who have little social media. A hint of this is given by their relatives who had no inkling of their beliefs.
Alas for Chris his 'solutions' would not have worked with these two terrorists.
When the original indian came here he was no ISIS disciple.
how do we know this? He married a european who was NOT a muslim.
The other of course was an australian.
Of course putting a 'ban' on all muslims coming here until they are 'acceptable' in Lebanon or Gaza or the West Bank shows a complete lack of knowledge of islam. Muslims are very different in all guises.
Did anyone say something similar on white Aussies after Port Arthur so that in they can only procreate if they 'pass a test'. Of course not it is absurd.
Chris intuitively a RC risks exposing deep divisions and possibly worse ,within both Labor and the left generally . That is what is behind the government’s ‘caring’ don’t want to inflame,approach.
Homer... Not Trampis - whoever you are...
"Of course putting a ‘ban’ on all muslims coming here until they are ‘acceptable’ in Lebanon or Gaza or the West Bank shows a complete lack of knowledge of islam. Muslims are very different in all guises.
"Did anyone say something similar on white Aussies after Port Arthur so that in they can only procreate if they ‘pass a test’. Of course not it is absurd."
Plus ONE.... example;
Paul Alper on January 2, 2026 12:00 PM at 12:00 pm said:
"When it comes to free expression and its suppression, I feel I have an unusual and credentialed success story. Many decades ago, I was anonymously accused of being antisemitic; a faculty committee was convened and I was (unanimously) declared innocent. However, it would be wrong to conclude that this was a triumph for right, truth and justice. My university was nervous that deep-sixing the insane charge (based on my quoting wardrobe color choice used by various ethnic groups as seen by the famous/infamous book, “Dress for Success”) would, as the popular phrase of that era might put it, “be counter productive”. Thus the the trial and my exoneration.
A few years later, I taught a course about antisemitism and it usually comes as a surprise to most, including me(!), that the term itself dates not from antiquity but from the latter half of the 19th century.
https://njop.org/the-origin-of-word-anti-semitism/
https://statmodeling.stat.columbia.edu/2026/01/02/barnard-college-president-promotes-free-expression-does-not-comment-on-recent-anti-free-expression-policies-at-the-college/#comment-2407819
KT thanks very interesting
Btw
‘Antisemitism ‘ is twelve western alphabet characters .
And a category and like all categories and all metaphors: it is not what it represents.
Robert Frost was succinct :
Poetry begins in trivial metaphors, pretty metaphors, ‘grace’ metaphors, and goes on to the profoundest thinking that we have.
Poetry provides the one permissible way of saying one thing and meaning another.”
… “ unless you have had your proper poetic education in the metaphor, you are not safe any-where. Because you are not at ease with figurative values:You don’t know the metaphor in its strength and its weakness. You don’t know how far you may expect to ride stand when it may breakdown with you. You are not safe in science; you are not safe in history .”
I never suggested the solution you suggested that I did. I made the statement that welcoming hundreds of thousands of Muslims 30 years ago during a religious war in Lebanon was sub-optimal. Are you against the idea of vetting immigrants to be "acceptable" (your passive aggressive quotes, not mine). We need to do more vetting in the future. The past is a sunk cost.
Chris Ahmed al-Ahmed , Chaya Dadon and all those who ran towards danger received a standing ovation at the SCG. As best as I know our PM was not there. Dawn Fraser has described our government as “ spineless “ have to agree .
YOU said it was a factor. It wasn't as any person with just a only brief knowledge of ISIS would have known.
Hmm how many people from Lebanon have made trouble re violence.
wow another own goal.
Try doing some actual research on what sort of muslims veer towards terrorism.
Beqaa Valley….?
Chris
Mr Not..
Is just making Smoke .
Personally I could get into a contest with him re who knows more about the multitude of heresy’s- faiths there are( or were )in the wider ME but it would serve no purpose
Mr Not is just being himself
yes we are still looking for the ISIS flags at the rallies.
shame about that.
you blokes are merely stoking division about something you have no knowledge about.
As any government doesn't vet any immigrant.
I cannot believe the ignorance being exploded here. It is Catallaxy revisited
Public statement released today by The Law Council of Australia:
“The Law Council of Australia speaks for the Australian legal profession nationally, and our core responsibility is to uphold the rule of law and confidence in Australia’s legal system. The rise in anti-Semitism, and the violence it has fuelled, strike at the heart of those foundations,”
“The Bondi terror attack did not occur in isolation. While it happened in one state, the forces that shape radicalisation, online incitement and prevention operate nationally and engage significant commonwealth responsibilities.
“In our view, only a commonwealth royal commission has the independence, scope and authority necessary to examine these issues fully, restore public confidence, and ensure Australia’s legal and institutional frameworks are fit for purpose.”
Mr Not you repeatedly imply that you have knowledge of the ME and its faith cultures that ‘ us blokes’ don’t have
You have not offered anything concrete to support your claim.
Mr Not
Former Federal Court judge Steven Rares, who retired from the bench in 2023, said the Albanese government had allowed “Jews to be singled out”.
“We came here when I was four years old in 1958, and I never felt unsafe until after the 7th of October, 2023,” he said.
“I don’t practice Judaism, but I’m a Jew, and I’m very deeply conscious that I come from a family, a race and a community that’s been subjected to discrimination since time immemorial. But I never thought it would happen in my own country that I have served as a judge.
“We need to work that out, and what’s been wrong with the political leadership, because that’s part of this problem. People take cues from politicians, including from inaction.”
For myself
one of my brothers is Persian he knows how to read what has been waving about at the front of too many marches.
no I have merely said you and the author have little to no knowledge of the subjects being debated. Thus far I have been proved correct.
ISIS like the Nazis hate a lot of people but reserve the greatest hate for jews. They do not give a tinkers cuss about the palestinian cause. Yet people here continue , like those in catallaxy in the past, refuse to acknowledge their mistake.
The Law council like all of us has no idea of why the bondi attack occurred.
IT does not offer a definition of anti-semitism. does it agree with the envoy who predictably chose a definition that includes criticism of israel in anti-semitism. As if on cue the Israeli government produced a report on anti-semitism that involved almost only criticism of israel. It rarely mentions neo-nazis!!!
Incidents of anti semitism have been corrupted. NSW police admitted it included incidents against muslims as anti-semitic.
We had a criminal inflating the figures with caravan of dynamite which that wood duck Minns instantly had legislation on. We had Iran inflating the figures and we have also had criticism of Israel included in it.
how come no-one has included the Israeli PM as a major reason for the rise?
I would like specifics about Mr Rares personal discrimination. sounds like understandable emotional hyperbole to me.
Wow ISIS and their supporters use arabic not persian.
The marches are well organized. Having a person with an ISIS flag would be as likely as having someone waving a swastika.
Yet another own goal This is catallaxy.
The author person claiming there were four factors behind the massacre. They were mostly bogus. Numbers 1 and 4 I have already shown to be claptrap. We have no idea about social media indeed we have no idea how they became radicalised. It would seem strange to people who had little social media presence would get it from there but we simply do not know.
Muslim immigration is crap as well. It would not have made a shred of difference in this matter. Muslims are a very diverse group .
Let us not forget he claims gas the jews was chanted yet the NSW police had experts examine this and found they did not chant.
Evidence for his claim. Yep none as usual
A much better argument would have been the demonstration should never had happened given its timing!
[Yawn: Ed]
By brother is fluent in several ME languages.
This whole article is a disgrace but worse a complete embarrassment to Troppo.
The terrorists were inspired by ISIS if not disciples.The Authorities have told us this. They also have a video of the son telling us the reasons.
The author knows sweet bugger all about ISIS ,its aims, philosphy,ideology. In fact he rarely mentioned it. ( I am being generous)
His four factors are mostly bogus as well.
ISIS does not give tuppence about Palestinians yet the author did not know this. He worries about muslin immigration particularly from Lebanon.
Hmm since most but not all islamic terrorists come from a wahhabist/salafist background it would be unusual for such a person to come from Lebanon. Why these people would not have the normal high background check is not explained either except for the fact he thinks all muslims are the same!! Checks were upped significantly after 11/9 in every western country. Oops he did not know that either!
He thinks the internet , social media in particular, is to blame in this instance BUT both the murderers were not highly educated . The wife had little idea of their beliefs, neither did their family in india nor their friends here.
If neither had a social media presence and their murdering spree was well planned then it begs the question why does the author think thus. Perhaps they read tracts and reached their own conclusions. Perhaps not. We do not know. however this is a more logical conclusion.
some of the comments are not better. ISIS is not anti-semitic?? ISIS flags were waved at demonstrations
This article has been a fact free article which the old Catallaxy would have been proud of!
Wahhabism Is just one of god knows how many heresies the region has given birth to…
Mr all lightness of tread🙂
Byzantium is my spiritual home I know history enough to know that;
Your very certainty tells me that you have know idea..
Bloody typo Dear Mr all lightness of tread My comment Should read You have no idea . Blessings from Byzantium
BTW
Mr lightness of tread
If you feel up to it this Byzantine is happy to debate etc
However as it stands gut feeling is you have no idea…are all huff and bluff
I recommend Jocelyn Chey's thoughts on the Royal Commission in P&I today.
I am afraid I deplore this article.
She says: “Australia has never been good at social cohesion.” Yet we are supposed to be the “most successful multicultural country in the world”. I put quotes here because it is a political cliché we have heard dozens of times and I suspect she would be one of the acolytes who used this phrase in the past.
“95 per cent of us are immigrants….if we are all immigrants, then we all have equal footing.” Dead wrong. ONE of my 8 great grandparents was an immigrant. I am not an immigrant – not that there is anything wrong with being an immigrant (#seinfeld). Our equal footing comes from our Australian citizenship.
“The role of the …old Immigration Departments was to smooth the path to citizenship and build a multicultural society.” No, it wasn’t. It was assimilation until Al Grassby set us upon a nation changing path in 1973.
“These days, we make it almost impossible for people who wish to settle here to feel secure in Australia….. People living with such stress may harbour resentment.” We have higher migration than almost any comparable country. so it is far from impossible. She seems to be saying that migrants have a right to resent Australia because of our rationing of entry. Just outrageous.
She also mentioned “the difficulty of family reunion.” One key argument we hear for high immigration levels is demographics. So why would we bring immigrants’ parents here FFS!? There should be zero family reunion visas. She seems to go on to suggest that frustration with family reunion and immigration rules leads to terrorism against “those they suspect of receiving preferences” which can erupt in racism and antisemitism. Outrageous again.
Her solution is to “deal with the backlog of immigration cases”, implicitly because if they are too slow the immigrants will retaliate with violence.
She manages to totally avoid the core reasons for having a RC Bondi and the increasing antisemitism in Australia ( often in people who were born here)
The author in concluding remarks says
“ I prefer Confucian rather than Legalist social policies. The Legalist school teaches that faults in society must be regulated by laws and punishments, and that human nature is intrinsically evil. Confucianism, on the other hand, is based on the belief in the essential goodness of people and teaches that they will follow the right path if they are taught wisely and have good examples to follow.”
No prizes for guessing who she believes is qualified to ; teach wisely be good examples 🙂
By chance this morning I came across this excerpt from George Orwell on Public Opinion:
“A Houyhnhnm, we are told, is never compelled to do anything, he is merely ‘exhorted’ or ‘advised’ ... This illustrates very well the totalitarian tendency which is implicit in the anarchist or pacifist vision of society. In a society in which there is no law, and in theory no compulsion, the only arbiter of behaviour is public opinion. But public opinion, because of the tremendous urge to conformity in gregarious animals, is less tolerant than any system of law.
When human beings are governed by ‘thou shalt not’, the individual can practise a certain amount of eccentricity: when they are supposedly governed by ‘love’ or ‘reason’, he is under continuous pressure to make him behave and think in exactly the same way as everyone else.”
Chris if your interested in the background to the subgroup of Islamic sects that underlie things like ISIS , Hamas and Iranian fundamentalists . This book review could be useful "The history of Islam is a complex one and includes a variety of schools and reform movements, a small number of which advocated hatred for and violence against “infidels” and “polytheists.” Understanding the roots of these sects is especially helpful today." https://www.acton.org/religion-liberty/volume-34-number-1/rebirth-heretical-islam